Looking for new bike..Probably Wisper??... your views please

eddieo · Feb 23, 2009

I think the 2009 model wisper's have a number of significant improvements. Personally I would wait until early April when I think they are due.....But I believe the de restriction switch is missing but it has a better choice of power delivery.

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tenderbehind · Feb 23, 2009

Wisper

Hi Gordon, i have the 905se and very pleased with it, I've now done 220 miles, not a lot and I'll wait to 300 to do a review, and if the bike is going as well as it now it will be a good one.
As far as I know you are correct in thinking the City is the same bike as the se but with the rack and guards. If you go for the se you can certainly fit a rack and a full pannier with even a top bag, and I would certainly think guards would be easily fitted too. I don't know if a 350 watt motor could be fitted but the motor on the se is a 250w though the label on the motor says 200w.
On the se the green button to the left of the bar as your'e sitting on the bike is the de restrict button enabling you to go off road and thereby able to do the top speed of approx 17.5 to 18.5 mph, depending of course on the usual things - riders weight, headwind, gradient etc. I must say, I've never got the 20 mph out of the bike throttle only, but I do weigh about 13 stone, so maybe that's why.
The red button to your right is the off on switch to the motor with three lights to the right of that, all three lit means full charge, then two, then one and that's it, pedal home and re charge. Can't think off hand of any buttons at the battery, there is a locking security key here though.
If you contact Wisper bikes at Sammy's Motorcycle Museum at New Milton, which is near Christhchurch, near Bournemouth, and speak to Phil, he will give you all the advise you need and MAY have the bikes you want in stock, though as eddieo says it might be better to wait a while to get the new model.
I'm very happy with the se, it's light, fast, and a range of about 32 miles which I achieved today riding all around the Christchurch and Ringwood areas, so far no problems at all and if there ever is the guys at Wisper would seem very helpful and supportive, I'd like to help sell the bikes albeit on a part time basis but I'd rather use my free time riding them.

rog_london · Feb 23, 2009

GordonMasson said:
Thanks for the information gents... much appreciated.

Sounds like the 2009 version may be the way to go then rather than trying to source a 2008 model?

On the battery box, the switch has 2 positions… I’m wondering if that’s how you select the pedal / throttle option?

Not too sure why there seems to be a low/high switch on the handle bars too?

As far as the controls go, it seems you have the:

Red (right hand) On/Off switch
Green (left hand) Road / Off road switch = high or low power
Box with Low / High buttons on left side of handle bars = high or low power
2 positions for key on battery box…..no idea how they work??

Seems like the green button and the high & low buttons are doubling up …or is it that you have three power settings?
Low, High and Off-road?.....if that is the case, wouldn’t they be better in the same switch?

Anyone care to suggest an alternative to the Wisper 905se City S by the way?

Oh and one last thing, I saw a picture of a rear hub motor that looked larger than the 1st gear sprocket, im assuming that the 350W motor?
Interesting that the motor is 250W but its marked 200W by the way!

Thanks for all your help

Cheers

Gordon

Hi Gordon

I've got one of those.......

Taking your points in order:

The battery switch has three positions - off, on and on. The two 'on' positions are functionally identical, so presumably that switch was suitable and readily available.

The red button turns the power on or off.

The high/low switch on the handlebar was introduced because the default 80% pedelec mode present on the earlier models was a bit fierce for some - including me! It does come in with a bit of a bang, especially if you're lightweight. With the switch, you get 20% by default (which is of course very gentle) and you can select the higher power mode if you wish.

You can over-ride either setting with the throttle, i.e. get even more power, and this works whether you are pedalling or not.

The green button raises the target motor assist cut out from the legal 15(ish) mph to just under 20(ish) mph. It complements the throttle and the high/low switch, therefore, with reduced battery range depending on how much you use it. Wisper warn us that this facility is soon to disappear, however, as the rules are likely to get tighter regarding the 15 mph assist limit. You might find it's gone in the new April shipment 2009 models, but you need to ask the guys at Wisper for a definitive answer.

As many will tell you, the motor rating can best be described as 'nominal' and the marked 200W label can be taken with a pinch of salt. Much more than this is available in practice.

The standard motor is slightly larger than the 1st gear sprocket if you consider its diameter to be that of the flange to which the spokes are attached.

Rog.

torrent99 · Feb 23, 2009

Gordon,

Re: The controls, one thing to note is that "throttle only" control may be disappearing on the 2009 model (I'm not sure). Worth checking out if that is important to you.

Re: Motor power. Motor power is most often limited by how much energy you put in to it i.e. by the battery voltage and the controller current. My Wisper (a 2007 vintage) uses a 36V battery with a controller rated at 36V and 15Amps. So the peak power delivered by this combination is 15*36=540W. If you want more you need either higher current (change the controller) or higher voltage (change battery and controller)....
The 200/250W is only a nominal power. The Wisper motor (a Suzhou Bafang) can take much more than that, and in the US they often overvolt it from 36V up to 48V and beyond (although it does tend to strip its gears occasionally so not to recommended unless you know what you are doing!). See Endless Sphere Technology - Home if you are keen on building your own higher powered bike.

Re: Sport vs City & mudguards. Mine is a sport with mudguards and rack, and unless they've changed the fork design since 2007 the mudguard stays aren't properly fixed onto the fork, just the springyness of them holds them onto the axle. Doesn't cause any problems though.

the_killjoy · Feb 23, 2009

If you get the SE you might find there is a problem fitting full guards due to the presence of the front disc.

flecc · Feb 23, 2009

GordonMasson said:
Oh and one last thing, I saw a picture of a rear hub motor that looked larger than the 1st gear sprocket, im assuming that the 350W motor?
Interesting that the motor is 250W but its marked 200W by the way!

As Rog says Gordon, the motor ratings are only nominal to match area legal requirements, the actual powers available being much higher. The UK legal figure is 200W, the EU legal figure is 250W. The Wisper 200/250 Watt motor is capable of a continuous 500 Watts when the load demand is high as in climbing a hill at speed.

The motor physical size doesn't indicate the power. For example, most of the hub motors are internally geared and powerful while being compact, but direct drive motors are larger diameter but poorer hill climbers for a given rating. The difference is that a direct drive motor has a slow rotating part driving the wheel directly, so simple to make and quiet and very reliable, while an internally geared hub has a faster rotating more efficient motor driving the wheel through reduction gears.

The eZee range are powerful alternative bikes, and some have derestriction possible to give 20 mph. However, the supply position of those high speed versions varies so you must check carefully with the supplier before buying to ensure the derestriction is available. The agent is Cyclepoint, and either the eZee Torq or the eZee Forza are alternatives that suit.

eZee bikes at Cyclepoint

The Torq may well have the 20 mph option.
.

Mussels · Feb 23, 2009

the_killjoy said:
If you get the SE you might find there is a problem fitting full guards due to the presence of the front disc.

I ordered the 900SE City sport and it was delivered without mudguards, as the weather was pretty wet at the time I got a set of quite standard 60mm SKS commuter mudguards. There was no great problem fitting them but one mounting was shared with the brake caliper. Some people don't like doing this and there is an alternative, I've had no problem with it and I'm a heavy user.

the_killjoy · Feb 23, 2009

My comment was based on what people have said about it affecting the doisc performance by using a common mounting point, if you've had no problems I needn't waste time looking fo a fancy mudguard.

When you mounted the stay on the brake side using the lug at the bottem of the fork leg did you use a spacer to avoid the brake or put a dogleg in the support? The brake assembly just seems to stick out to far to accomodate the mudguard stay.

(My trouble is I spend too much time thinking and too little doing )

Mussels · Feb 25, 2009

GordonMasson said:
It looks like the 2009 Wisper 905se City S may be the one to go for BUT the problem is I don’t have a firm delivery date yet or price.

Delivery dates on most ebikes seem to be very optimistic, something in stock or in transit is a better idea if you want it sooner. I was lucky and decided I wanted a Wisper about 3 weeks before they were expected in customs.

GordonMasson said:
I really need the bike sooner rather than later so its pushing me towards a current Wisper or perhaps an eZee Forza ….shame the Torq doesn’t have throttle control with the larger 700 wheels… that may have been a better option since I currently use a Marin Larkspur which has 700 wheels…. Mind you im only 5’ 10” and 11.5 stone so the Wisper would probably be ok but you just get the impression with smaller wheels your covering less ground.

The difference in rim diameter between 26" and 700c is 23mm, if as quite normal the 26" has a fat tyre and the 700c a thin tyre then the 26" could well be the bigger diameter. My 60-599 big apples have a rolling circumference of 1080mm, anyone know what it is on a 700c?

GordonMasson said:
The Wisper has Li Po rather than Li Io battery which I think(??) is better?

So …..

Choices are down to
2008 Wisper 905se Sport and fit mudguards and rack
2009 Wisper 905se City S with everything fitted but no firm price or delivery date
eZee Forza which seems to be quite close to the Wisper, can be de-restricted but Cyclepoint don’t seem too happy about warranty if you de-restrict them.
eZee Torq which has 700 wheels but no throttle only option.

What would you recommend?

Thanks

Gordon

Battery difference is a long topic elsewhere on the site, but the two you list can be considered the same. Flecc may correct me on that.
If the 905SE sport is available then mudguards and rack will probably cost £40 and be quite easy to fit, I did mine having never fitted any before.
The Forza does look similar, the front motor will have plus and minus points. I'd be worried why they are funny about the warranty, it should make no difference to the life of the parts. Maybe they are just worried about people messing the wires up.
The Torq has had mixed reviews depending on when it was made, some were very good though. Personally I like the throttle and wouldn't give it up easily.

flecc · Feb 25, 2009

The Forza has a very powerful motor which when derestricted can draw nearly 700 watts, putting quite a strain on the battery and running the controller at high current throughput. That could be the reason why Cyclepoint are a bit unhappy about the warranty in those conditions.

Optimum choice for your preferences is probably the Wisper 905se Sport while they still have the derestrict button for 18 mph and fit mudguards and carrier. When the City S turns up eventually it might not have the 18 mph option since I understand it's not continuing.

I would also have lined up the Torq with it, but I wouldn't recommend anyone buying it with the EAF instead of a throttle without seeing and trying that first if a throttle is normally preferred.
.

Mussels · Feb 25, 2009

flecc said:
The Forza has a very powerful motor which when derestricted can draw nearly 700 watts, putting quite a strain on the battery and running the controller at high current throughput. That could be the reason why Cyclepoint are a bit unhappy about the warranty in those conditions.

That could work very nicely with the parallel battery setup Wai Won Ching has mentioned.
Gordon, I wouldn't recommend this for you as I think a good warranty is well worth having for someone new to ebikes.

flecc · Feb 25, 2009

Mussels said:
That could work very nicely with the parallel battery setup Wai Won Ching has mentioned.

Yes, both the Forza and new Torq would benefit from a major increase in battery capacity if run derestricted.
.

torrent99 · Feb 25, 2009

I think all the other points have been addressed but:

GordonMasson said:
Hi folks
The Wisper has Li Po rather than Li Io battery which I think(??) is better?

They are basically two different names for the same thing these days. Li Po (Lithium Polymer) is a method of construction for a LiIo (Lithium Battery) of which there are many different types although I believe (flecc please correct me if I'm wrong here) most e-bikes are supplied with the Lithium Manganese (LiMn) type these days.
(You may see posts about LiFePo4 batteries which is a newer type of LiIon than LiMn, but which at the moment isn't used by the major e-bike manufacturers although it shows great promise...)

Anyway for the bikes you've chosen the battery quality is good, you only have to think about the size (in AHs).

Cheers

Steve

flecc · Feb 25, 2009

torrent99 said:
They are basically two different names for the same thing these days. Li Po (Lithium Polymer) is a method of construction for a LiIo (Lithium Battery) of which there are many different types although I believe (flecc please correct me if I'm wrong here) most e-bikes are supplied with the Lithium Manganese (LiMn) type these days.

Nothing to correct Steve, just one thing to add.

The LiMn (Lithium-ion batteries using manganese cathodes) that you mention replaced the high fire risk but good performing cobalt cathode types, but they've been reluctant to deliver enough power for the most powerful bike motors.

Therefore, to solve that problem, eZee and Wisper who use the most powerful motors now have Lithium-ion batteries using a compound cathode of both manganese and cobalt, so LiMnCo. They also use the polymer type of construction, so altogether they are LiMnCo-poly. Of course all these types are lithium-ion, so the full name is:

Lithium-ion manganese/cobalt polymer

(I'm sure the battery manufacturers are hoping to use the whole alphabet soon.

)

These are capable of good current delivery without the fire risks that the cobalt only batteries were prone to.
.

flecc · Feb 25, 2009

GordonMasson said:
Right … err..well thanks for that flecc

. I often answer in full in that way, the intention is not to confuse but to give the fullest information for those who want more details.

Large numbers of visitors as well as members read the threads and that way anyone can pick out as much information as they want or need.
.

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