More technical info about Cute / Ananda geared motor

[daniel.weck]

These "cute" motors are sparking a lot of interest due to their low weight and size. Probably worth a separate thread me thinks (until now the info was buried inside the "Conhis" thread).

Models can be found on:

Welcome to Ecity Power Co., Ltd.

BMSBATTERY - The Art Of LiFePO4

It looks like Ananda motors are the same:

Brushless DC motor and controller for Electric bike and Electric vehicle--- Shanghai Ananda Drive Technique Co.,Ltd

Brushless DC motor and controller for Electric bike and Electric vehicle--- Shanghai Ananda Drive Technique Co.,Ltd

For those of you who have an account at the EndlessSphere forum, there's tons of interesting photos comparing sizes:

Endless-sphere.com • View topic - CUTE geared hub motors from bmsbattery/ecitypower

Brace yourself, some really interesting photos of the internals are coming ! (originally published on Endless-Sphere, reproduced here for convenience)

 

[daniel.weck]

100mm versus 80mm fork dropout spacing:
EDIT: there is no factory 80mm model but it should be possible to get the narrower version down to a width suitable for a fork like the Brompton's one, with minimal widening.

Slightly different gears too:

Outer ring:

The very interesting "double-stage" gearing mechanism:

 

[daniel.weck]

Outer ring in place:

Without outer gear:

Wires still exit from the axle:

Blurry close-up:

 

[daniel.weck]

100mm with straight gear teeth:

80mm with inclined teeth:

 

[daniel.weck]

"Lynchy" from Endless-Sphere forum says:

Endless-sphere.com • Login

"
The factory and offices of Ananda is only about 1 hour from my home in Pudong by the metro. I'm going to be ordering a quantity of these for my business, retailling in the UK. If you guys are interested I could hook you up very nicely. If someone's willing to receive several motors and then forward them in the US, I should be able to get a better deal on shipping. I've got some examples here, so if anyone is trusted to get 1 off me I can send it to that person. If they like it, I'll fix as many as you like at a price you like Furthermore, I've been in Engineering for years. Not claiming to be an expert in motors as electrical and electronics is more my expertise, but I know more than most and what I don't know I can learn pretty quickly.

Of course any payments have to be done in a safe way for everyone involved. I've got Paypal but am happy to go along with any reputable method. Happy to chat with anyone and can PM contact details if you like.
"

 

[jerrysimon]

Interesting Dan. I thought they only made it in a 100mm width. So is it a viable alternative for the Tongxin on the Brompton ?

PS I am guessing they are not as quiet as the Tongxin being geared though ?

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

So is it a viable alternative for the Tongxin on the Brompton ?

I don't know. This "Lynchy" guy is testing them, in his last post he is not too enthusiastic about the power/torque.

 

[emissions-free]

I've tried a few of these motors and they are pretty good but not silent. I've had some different models and the part that you end up with doesn't always seem to be what you thought you were going to get The smaller diameter motor is really light at only 2.05kg (measured on my scales, not some imaginary number pulled out of the air to sell them) and although it's a bit gutless at it's standard supply voltage (24V) is quite nice at 36V. I think it's only 180 or 200W at it's rated supply. It would be a great little motor in a small rimmed bike.

It seemed very similar in performance, size and noise as the Dapu unit that I tested. I'm using what appears to be a very high speed Ananda motor in a 12.5" rimmed bike and it somehow seems a bit quieter when used at these very high rpms (over 500rpm under load ). They're not as quiet as the new Bafang QSWXK, but I only used that motor briefly. I've got a few 8Fun motors/controllers on there way to me soon including a very nice larger diameter motor, that has performance that seems rather amazing for it's 250W rated power. Will be able to give a better comparison then. Should have a cycle analyst soon, so will be able to see what's going on, a bit easier. You get some funny looks with 2 full sized DMMs tie wrapped to your bike

The stuff on ebay is most likely Ananda but I wouldn't like to say for sure and what you end up with, who knows...

 

[jerrysimon]

The smaller diameter motor is really light at only 2.05kg (measured on my scales, not some imaginary number pulled out of the air to sell them)

emissions-free, thanks that's interesting info especially about the noise. Its a little confusing as to whether these motors come in 80mm width 36v or 24v and with or without Hall sensors ? Also interesting re the weight the ebay listing says 1.6kg

Now I have all the stuff and can hopefully start building wheels myself, it will be cheaper (and fun) for me to experiment myself.

For those sort of prices I would be happy to order one and try even if it proved useless.

But first I guess I have to wait for my Tongxin's to arrive (and my Brompton DON'T ask) to get that project under my belt.

I also need to make up a 12s A123 pack, but again I am still waiting for the cells to arrive.

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

You'll like the Cycle Analyst, it's the bees knees when it comes to e-cycling and DIY projects

A while back, I spotted a supplier of Ananda-based kits in Europe (they have dropped the crank/chainring torque sensor due to poor reliability / efficacy):

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4589-e-bike-diy-conhis-motor-kits-china-5.html?highlight=cute#post62535

 

[emissions-free]

Jerry,

there isn't an 80mm option on these at present but I've had a look at the narrower version which is intended for disk fitment and you should be able to get that down to 90 or maybe even 85mm, just by modifying a couple of things. I don't think the required speed will be a problem either. The 85mm version i have here does over 400rpm at 36V if my memory serves me right (it's a 24V motor).

I've found a spot welder supplier in China. It's 1000USD. Doesn't sound too bad. I was told they are about 1500USD, probably the same, just with a small handling charge added.

How are you joining the A123 cells together? Have they got tabs already fitted?

Didn't get any reply back from Tongxin. Have to try plan 2, get my girlfriend on the case, if I can find a telephone number. I'll get a few motors to play with and will ask about the 28 hole 80mm type. What is so special about the rim that you can't use any correctly sized rim?

 

[jerrysimon]

Jerry,

there isn't an 80mm option on these at present but I've had a look at the narrower version which is intended for disk fitment and you should be able to get that down to 90 or maybe even 85mm, just by modifying a couple of things. I don't think the required speed will be a problem either. The 85mm version i have here does over 400rpm at 36V if my memory serves me right (it's a 24V motor).

I've found a spot welder supplier in China. It's 1000USD. Doesn't sound too bad. I was told they are about 1500USD, probably the same, just with a small handling charge added.

How are you joining the A123 cells together? Have they got tabs already fitted?

Didn't get any reply back from Tongxin. Have to try plan 2, get my girlfriend on the case, if I can find a telephone number. I'll get a few motors to play with and will ask about the 28 hole 80mm type. What is so special about the rim that you can't use any correctly sized rim?

Hey Paul.

Sorry I meant 85mm like the Tongxin. EDIT 80mm

I have ordered the cells with tabs already fitted.

The reason why they have sourced 28 hole motors, is because the correct Brompton sized rims that come with 36 holes are very hard to get in the UK. I think they have to be specially made and the only reseller in the UK that orders them, has them on back order till second week in Jan 2010.

He orders about 150-200. Usually he has them in stock for a while but he said sometimes they suddenly all sell out when people do certain electric wheel type projects for vehicles.

Regards

Jerry

 

[emissions-free]

If anyone knows any specifics about the rims, I'd be intersted. It would be very strange for them to make them a non-standard size, so then you'd need special tyres also. Strange.

I'm hoping for a complete rundown when you receive the bike and all the goodies

 

[jerrysimon]

Well as you already stated about Chinese business being a little slow, as many of my parts are coming form china its taking a while.

That said the cycle to work scheme I am using to purchase the Brompton has completly messed up, so now I won't get that either until next week. I think the answer for many of us enthuiasts if to move to China like Frank lmao.

PS Paul, All the Brompton info is here

Brompton Bicycle » Brompton folding bike

Wheel size... 16" x 13/8", ETRTO 37-349

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

there isn't an 80mm option on these at present but I've had a look at the narrower version which is intended for disk fitment and you should be able to get that down to 90 or maybe even 85mm, just by modifying a couple of things.

I've modified my post to reflect this situation. Cheers, Dan

 

[daniel.weck]

The reason why they have sourced 28 hole motors, is because the correct Brompton sized rims that come with 36 holes are very hard to get in the UK. I think they have to be specially made and the only reseller in the UK that orders them, has them on back order till second week in Jan 2010.

He orders about 150-200. Usually he has them in stock for a while but he said sometimes they suddenly all sell out when people do certain electric wheel type projects for vehicles.

Back when I was looking for suppliers of the Sun-Ringle CR18 36H rims (16" 1 3/8 - 349mm), I got in touch with quite a few pros / local bike shops. They all admitted to source a lot of their stocks from SJS, and I was advised to go direct because they get charged approximately the same price as us anyway !!

SJS Cycles

 

[emissions-free]

Guys,

I just had another look at the smaller ananda motor and the minimum you could get it down to is about 91mm give or take a mil without doing anything to the motor casing. There are bearings on the case where the shaft enters so you could maybe take a little material off the case to bring it down more but not much. Is the dropout the narrowest part of the fork on the brompton?

I'll see what Ananda say, they might be able to do something to bring that down a bit more. There's a Dahon shop near me, so I might go over there and have a good look at some of their models too. You also see a lot of Oyama folders over here. I haven't looked into them much but they seem very light and look really nicely put together. Their not cheap, but quite reasonable retail price. Maybe I could pick up a 16" version and see how it performs with 1 of these anandas at 36V. It was very acceptable in a 26" rim, would be a bit better on a smaller rim as the rpm/V is quite high, about 10 if I remember correctly. Unfotunately the little diddy Ananda controllers I have are only sufficient at the standard supply voltage and are not up to supplying these motors at 36V, but there's plenty of other options out there that can.