New Bosch 2014 kit officially announced!..

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Hi Guys,

I know some of you have already been asking me about the new Bosch kit, so to follow on from my previous thread here is more detail.

The current motor will follow through to next year and run alongside the new motor design. Its likely the new motor will only be mounted on higher end models and there will probably be a decent price tag alongside these bikes.

The current motor will still be the most popular choice for manufacturers. Down to lead times and cost at present. Its likely the new motor will be a more popular choice on 2015 models which we are a long way off yet.

There will be 2 classes of motor available - the Performance Line & Active Line
The Performance line will offer assistance levels up to 275% with the active line offering a more subtle 225%.

New Performance Line- (Cruise available in the UK not the Speed)


With the Performance Line, a drive system exists today for all who have recognised ebikes as the most modern form of transportation: for fast riders, for the physically fit, for commuters and for anyone who likes to ride dynamically. In short, for anyone who has no time to lose or who wants to transcend new athletic limits. Whether with Cruise (25 km/h) or Speed (45 km/h), the Performance Line brings a mass of energy and momentum to the street, to the dirt road, to the pass, to the single trail. The powerful drive system is both impulsive and controllable. With the highest precision, its performance is combined with that of the ebiker, generating sporty support that dominates every terrain and every gear. From flat to steep. From moderate to full power. The inner values are complemented by an equally impressive exterior. Design and ergonomics combine a high level of aesthetics and usability.

Drive Unit -

The difference is the technology behind the new modern anthracite-coloured design of the components. With 1000 sensor readings per second, the Drive Units Performance Cruise (25 km/h) and Speed (45 km/h) continuously calculate the actual and target speed of the journey. The drive thus transmits force that is perfectly matched to the ebiker. The optimal balance of performance and range is also a matter of pure enjoyment.

Intuvia Display Unit -

In a new design to match the lines, the cycle computer Intuvia is something to be seen: in the colours of anthracite in the Performance Line and platinum in the Active Line. With Intuvia Performance and Intuvia Active, high-precision distance measurements are also possible. The ebiker himself can make fine adjustments to the wheel circumference at the touch of a button. A USB port allows you to charge external hardware such as smartphones and MP3 players. Both Performance and Active line's offer the ability of switching between the five riding modes plus walk assistance and calling up information such as speed, charging state, distance and much more could not be easier.
Even when removed from the ebike, Intuvia remains a useful information tool that makes it possible for you to retrieve all your tour data.

Power Pack -

The PowerPacks 300 and PowerPacks 400 are the batteries with unparalleled energy density. They are now even easier to install and remove, and they also support charging directly on the bike. A special charging socket with a protective cover provides maximum safety during charging.

Charger -

Together with its cable, the Charger weighs less than 800 grams. The improved charging plug and a practical hook-and-loop strip for cable sorting simplify handling. The new battery charging device is designed without air vents, which prevents contamination and makes it more robust.

Range Estimations (In Km/h) -


This kit looks exciting, offering assistance levels up to 275%.. We will probably look at getting this kit onto the bikes in 6months or so once the system is a little tried and tested and any teething problems refined out.

Like I said above the current (tried and tested) Bosch kit will continue to be used with many ebikes and will run alongside the new kit rather than be replaced.

Regards
Martin

 

[mike killay]

Frankly,
I am not excited.
Why do they limit the assistance?
My Tonaro gives Power, not assistance. Being an OAP, I appreciate not having to pedal at all at times.

 

[tillson]

Frankly,
I am not excited.
Why do they limit the assistance?
My Tonaro gives Power, not assistance. Being an OAP, I appreciate not having to pedal at all at times.

I suppose that they limit the power to keep the motor within the legal limits. I agree with you though, more power would be very useful for some people and as long as the top speed isn't ridiculous, I can't see why the legislators won't let that happen.

 

[Streethawk]

Frankly,
I am not excited.
Why do they limit the assistance?
My Tonaro gives Power, not assistance. Being an OAP, I appreciate not having to pedal at all at times.

Having recently tested the Tonaro Compy back to back with a Bosch 2012 equipped BH Emotional Xenon 700, the Bosch went up the same hill, 10kph faster with less effort.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Martin, How do they calculate those assistance levels? Surely, they're power levels. Percentage doesn't mean anything. Percentage of what? If Chris Froome gives it his full 800w, will the motor respond with 2200w? Doesn't seem likely somehow.

 

[Streethawk]

I always take these roadsters wattage outputs with a pinch of salt. 800w, from a 70kg rider on an 8kg bike and he'd be pushing 40 on the flat, but they don't, they cruise around 28, which is what the 350 speed Bosch will do with fairly minimal rider input, even with 105kg of me on a 20kg bike. I remember reading Chris Hoy can output 3000w in a sprint. Seems unrealistic.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Martin, How do they calculate those assistance levels? Surely, they're power levels. Percentage doesn't mean anything. Percentage of what? If Chris Froome gives it his full 800w, will the motor respond with 2200w? Doesn't seem likely somehow.

Not sure as the exact units used are not stated.
Bosch words - "At 100 % personal pedal power, the motor contributes an additional 250%".

It could be a percentage of the motor peak power. So on the current system if the nominal output of the motor is 250w and it peaks at 500w then 250w x 200% = 500w peak power. Just a guess.

Although that doesn't tie up with what 'personal pedal power' is measured in as you said.

That said when I tried to wheelie the Haibike FSAM a few weeks back and nearly ended up on my ar*s - it defiantly felt like 250% was being applied from stand still

Regards
Martin

 

[flecc]

These figures are always a percentage of the rider input, but only up to the motor's maximum net output.

A typical fit male through their middle years can input 200 watts for about one hour but less as the duration increases. Therefore with 200 watts rider input the 225% Bosch will respond with 2.25 times as much which is 450 watts and within the unit's capabilities. A 275% Bosch unit will try to add 2.75 times the rider's 200 watts which is 550 watts, probably a bit beyond what is possible.

However, most e-bike riders tend to input less than 200 watts on a continuous basis so the unit is able to meet average demands, whatever the power level selected.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

^^ what flecc said above..
Perfect answer flecc cheers.

Martin

 

[Streethawk]

I do wish they would release a bigger battery, 15ah would be great on the Bosch system.

 

[103Alex1]

Yup. Battery too small. If 550W is the guesstimate max imho that's not enough to tempt at Bosch prices. After watching my cycle analyst carefully have come to the conclusion that 800W+ peak or thereabouts for significant long steep hills seems an absolute minimum target output to be of interest.

 

[Geebee]

May not be too unrealistic, when fit I could cruise for hours at 360w, sprint for several minutes at regular intervals above 600w and hit 1kw for very short bursts, and I was a long way from a pro rider, just riding for fun and fitness and had a few health issues at the time.

I always take these roadsters wattage outputs with a pinch of salt. 800w, from a 70kg rider on an 8kg bike and he'd be pushing 40 on the flat, but they don't, they cruise around 28, which is what the 350 speed Bosch will do with fairly minimal rider input, even with 105kg of me on a 20kg bike. I remember reading Chris Hoy can output 3000w in a sprint. Seems unrealistic.

 

[jd1]

Is the new style battery compatable with the current range of bikes? If not then how long will Bosch continue to manufacture the current style of battery? A consideration if you are thinking of purchasing a Bosch bike now.

 

[103Alex1]

Is the new style battery compatible with the current range of bikes?

Apparently it won't be, no.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Is the new style battery compatable with the current range of bikes? If not then how long will Bosch continue to manufacture the current style of battery? A consideration if you are thinking of purchasing a Bosch bike now.

HI JD1.

The new Battery is not backwards compatible, however you would never need to do this as they are the same 300wh & 400wh as before.

The current Bosch units will follow alongside the "Performance Line" with the performance option mainly for higher end bikes. They're not looking to drop the current range and many ebikes will continue to use the current kit. Its actually still one of the best systems around with revisions to the head unit and buttons only just a short while back.

The current "Classic Line" Bosch kit actually pumps put more assistance than the new "Active line" so it will remain popular for ebikers not looking at paying more for the newer style kit.

As for range - the Bosch kit offers one of the best ranges possible in the ebike world without going crazy on big ah battery's. The new "Performance Line" battery is smaller and lighter, and this is the direction the manufacturers are working towards so to go for a bigger/heavier battery would be taking a step back.

Having 2 e-bikeshop's myself I always see guys in looking at ebikes like top trump cards. 12AH is better than 8ah and 15ah is better than 12ah etc etc. People over exaggerate the range they wish to be going on one charge a lot. So I always suggest trying the current battery & if this really doesn't meet your requirements then upgrade to a bigger one when you feel needed.

Only ever had 2 people actually do the anticipated range and opt for the bigger batteries.

Regards
Martin

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yup. Battery too small. If 550W is the guesstimate max imho that's not enough to tempt at Bosch prices. After watching my cycle analyst carefully have come to the conclusion that 800W+ peak or thereabouts for significant long steep hills seems an absolute minimum target output to be of interest.

Are you talking about power output or input, Alex,? It makes a big difference because efficiency goes down when the motor's under load. The problem is that we don't have a way of measuring power output, so we have no idea what it feels like. Looking at the simulator, your Trek with a 25amp controller can climb a 15% hill at 8mph without pedalling. The power input would be about 900w, and the output about 550w.

 

[flecc]

Yup. Battery too small. If 550W is the guesstimate max imho that's not enough to tempt at Bosch prices. After watching my cycle analyst carefully have come to the conclusion that 800W+ peak or thereabouts for significant long steep hills seems an absolute minimum target output to be of interest.

Remember that's just the motor and it's a pedelec Alex. Throw in your own circa 200 watts and the ability to choose the gear all the combined power goes though and it's plenty for any hill, unless perhaps for the extremely overweight.

 

[103Alex1]

Are you talking about power output or input, Alex,? It makes a big difference because efficiency goes down when the motor's under load. The problem is that we don't have a way of measuring power output, so we have no idea what it feels like. Looking at the simulator, your Trek with a 25amp controller can climb a 15% hill at 8mph without pedalling. The power input would be about 900w, and the output about 550w.

Must be power input. Probably achieves more than above in reality. Hard to say as I always pedal by choice.

 

[103Alex1]

Remember that's just the motor and it's a pedelec Alex. Throw in your own circa 200 watts and the ability to choose the gear all the combined power goes though and it's plenty for any hill, unless perhaps for the extremely overweight.

It's one thing getting up a hill but it's another getting up it at a sensible pace .

 

[flecc]

It's one thing getting up a hill but it's another getting up it at a sensible pace .

One man's sensible etc - - - - - -

It is a bicycle after all.