New LPX Li-Pol Battery v. NiMH battery

[gullrock]

My wife and I are considering buying a pair of electric bikes. We are looking at the PowaCycle range - Salisbury and Windsor

Both are available with either a LPX Li-Pol battery 26v 10.5Ah = 273 Watt hours giving 27 - 37 miles @ £599 (plus £199 for a spare battery)

or alternatively

with a NiMH batttery 24v 8Ah = 192 Watt hours giving 18 - 25 miles @ £499 (plus £99 for a spare battery)

Having read some comments about the relative benefits of each type of battery we are now totally confused and really don't know which to go for! Our thoughts are that if no battery is going to last that long anyway perhaps we should go for the cheaper NiMH one, however we are willing to be convinced either way if any one can point us in the right direction please?

 

[gullrock]

Thanks for that (even if it is biased!) However you have lost me - what is the Liv please?

 

[hobo1]

Thanks for that (even if it is biased!) However you have lost me - what is the Liv please?

Scott will most likely get back to you, but if you click on the 50cycles add-then click liv your answer will be there.

Cheers David.

 

[gullrock]

Great thanks, I hadn't actually looked closely at eZee as I thought they were betond our budget but they are actually only 1 or 2 hundred more than the Salisbury and Windsor depending on which option is chosen. It is still quite a lot more when you are buying 2 cycles!!!!

Realistically though, would you expect a battery to need replacing inside 3 years or is the performance likely to be reduced over that time to drive you up the wall?

We are not likely to be using our cycles on a daily basis as they are intended to be used when we are off in our camper and perhaps a bit locally too as we live amongst the hills of Cornwall, some hills too!!!

Thanks

Richard

 

[hobo1]

There are many members on this forum more qualified than me to answer your questions on batteries, but I do own a Forza and I am well pleased with it: certainly is a good climber. The Liv I believe is also a good climber, but at a more reasonable price. You will be able to get very good advice from the forum members if you hang fire.

Cheers David.

 

[Ian]

There are two articles here and here which may answer some of your questions. Manufacturers of both battery types claim upwards of 500 charge/discharge cycles and when used carefully nickel metal hydride (NiMh) batteries have pvoved themselves to be capable of at least approaching this lifespan over 3 or 4 years, even longer in some cases although some reduction in capacity is inevitable. Lithium battery types haven't really been around long enough on bikes to tell exactly how long they're likely to last although early indications are that the capacity loss over time can be considerable, this is true whether or not the battery is in regular use but can be reduced but not eliminated by careful use. ie. avoiding total discharges, regular topping up and storing in cool conditions.

I have no personal experience of the Powacyle bikes but they are generally well liked by their owners, they are not the most powerful bikes though, something to consider in hilly terrain, the Ezee Liv perhaps being better in this respect

 

[coops]

Hi Richard

There's also quite a recent thread here may be useful, on a virtually identical issue .

I think its worth adding that I'm fairly sure the Liv's motor has higher peak power output, or maximum torque, than the Powacycle's, so better on hills, though the bikes are quite different in styling, gears etc. Much info on the forum on opinions about the Liv, including an entire (& long...) thread, started when the bike was released around March 2007, originally NiMH only but later Lithium for a price premium - around when the Nickel shortage began.

Hope that helps you choose your bikes & batteries too .

One more thing - you may find ebike use is compulsive and your usage goes beyond what you original planned... so I'd advise you buy bikes suitable for use at home too!

All the best,

Stuart.

 

[flecc]

Relevant to both performance and life of Li-ion batteries is how they are used. A less powerful bike like the Powacycle stresses the battery less, and that is better both for longer life and cosistent performance without cut-outs occurring.

A high powered bike is more prone to drive a Li-ion battery into a low voltage cut-out when under high load such as steep or long hillclimbs, and that can also affect the battery's useful life. In the most difficult circumstances or when usage is very occasional, NiMh can be a better choice, and is cheaper of course.
.

 

[frank9755]

My wife bought a Powacycle Windsor a couple of weeks ago. Having read much of what has been written on this site, I decided to go for NiMH. Given the Powacycle batteries are reasonably priced, we got two. The bike has now done about 250 miles. We've taken care to condition each battery - running it right down before recharging. We're currently getting great ranges. I got about 40 miles from one last week; the otherr has done 35 and is not yet discharged! I have to caveat that - it is on the mostly flat terrain of West and Central London (the biggest hill being Holland Park Avenue up to Notting Hill Gate), and I am a reasonably fit cyclist so a proportion of miles will have been done at above 15mph, hence with no battery drain.

The bike itself has been great. Not perfect but the things it is less good in tend not to be important, while it is great at the basics (I'll post a review shortly to elaborate).

You will definitely get noticeably more power from a 36v bike such as the Liv (and that may be critical in hilly country). You may get a little more power from a Powacycle LPX. However I can't think of anything that will give you a better combination of good cycling experience, adequate power and 50-plus mile range than a Powacycle wth 2-NiMH batteries - for under £600.

Frank

 

[gullrock]

Does the PowaCycle charger come with a facility to dicharge the battery as recommended prior to charging please?
Richard

 

[flecc]

No Richard, the NiMh version is a simple and quite small charger at a very low £40 cost separately. It works well though, and doesn't charge too fast, the slower the charge the better for the battery. Also, the relatively low power of the motor doesn't stress the battery unduly, so again good for long life.

Considering also the very low price of Powacycle replacement batteries the lack of a discharger and small extra life that might give is relatively unimportant compared with some other e-bikes.

Just occasionally running the battery to a fairly low point is sufficient to maintain it in good condition. In fact it's best not to run a Powacycle NiMh bike to cut-off point due to the type of cut-out circuit it uses. This can cycle on and off for a short while at the cut-out point which is not good for the electronics.

An owner soon gets used to how much range is obtainable, so running the battery to a fairly low point but short of the cut-out becomes quite easy.
.

 

[frank9755]

What in practice happens is the battery power starts to falter, cutting in and out. It usually starts to occur when you go up a hill and the load on the battery increases. If its a short hill, you can ride on a flat section ok but it will start to falter again on the next hill. I use this pulsing as the sign I need to change the battery.

Frank

 

[gullrock]

Great information, a lot to digest but thank you everyone. On balance I think that we will go for the NiMH Windsor and Salisbury.