New member! Looking for first ebike or kit...

[zombiemax69]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for having me in the group. I'm looking to purchase my first ebike or kit for commuting. Previously I was commuting about 15 miles each to my place of work either on a carbon framed racer I built, or driving. The location of my work has now changed, and is now closer to 22 miles. Driving is now out of the question as the traffic is awful and petrol is sooo expensive... trains are also expensive and infrequent - so I'm looking for another solution!

Anyone commuting that kind of distance on an ebike? I'm totally new to this kind of vehicle, but have a had a little nosey around - from what I have read so far I'm thinking a kit would be the way to go. I'm not shy of a bit of DIY having built numerous bikes and restored a few old cars. Any pointers would be much appreciated! Budget is tight as I'm a yorkshireman , but I have a nice Whyte portabello hybrid that I'm thinking I would use as the base.

Alvin

 

[sjpt]

That's quite a commute even by ebike. If you keep it a legal pedelec it will only be offering assist to 15mph, so around 1 1/2 hours unless you give lots of help. If the traffic is awful that doesn't sound much fun on any bike.

Unless it is very hilly, a rear hub conversion would probably be best for that commute.

An s-pedelec with more power and speed will be more appropriate; but to keep it legal comes with need for registration, plates, insurance etc. They can be difficult to find, and also difficult and expensive to insure as they are a currently a niche market that insurers don't understand.

If you convert to s-pedelec (speedier and more powerful motor) you will need some extra safety registration of the individual bike to keep it legal; others here can give more details on that.

Sadly, all that means a scooter or light motor bike may be a better bet.

 

[zombiemax69]

Ah that's a bit disappointing... I might rent a pedelec to trial it out. The commute to the new place took me 1 hour 50 ish when I tried it on my racer - there's a long low gradient hill that always slows me down to about 7/8mph - if I could up the speed to 15mph up there I'd be interested to see what the time was. Average speed was about 11mph with a max of 24mph.

The awful traffic was mainly the M25, which I'll probably try and avoid if I'm pedalling

 

[soundwave]

i bike with a dongle will do it but the batt wont have much left after 22 miles so you would need to charge it for the return home or use 2 500w batts.

depending how fast i spin the cranks i can get about 25 miles from my 500w bosch batt.

 

[zombiemax69]

i bike with a dongle will do it but the batt wont have much left after 22 miles so you would need to charge it for the return home or use 2 500w batts.

depending how fast i spin the cranks i can get about 25 miles from my 500w bosch batt.

Do you run a dongle? Yes I'd probably charge at work or buy a second battery

 

[soundwave]

yes i have had a dongle on it since 2014 and is geared to go 40mph on the flat so destroys any race bike

 

[Nealh]

My brother very rarely posts on here but he did ride a 20 mile odd each way route in to the Surrey Hills on a Bosch dongled bike and a Shimano Willer dongled bike but only a couple of times a week on nicer days. It is doable and think his travel time was about 70 odd mins each way.
On the crappy days he would use petrol scooter or car.

 

[sjpt]

Athere's a long low gradient hill that always slows me down to about 7/8mph - if I could up the speed to 15mph up there I'd be interested to see what the time was.

A regular pedelec will help on that hill, should mean you can do it at 15mph; and with work from you on the rest you may average 15mph or even a tad over.

Technically a dongled bike is an s-pedelec with all the complications that brings. As long as you ride responsibly the chances of being caught a tiny, and of being prosecuted even less. Main risk is if you are involved in an accident, in which case the police or the other parties insurers may look very closely.

 

[Benjahmin]

Also, the dongled bile SW is referring to is a Bosch powered crank drive.
Two things here, this means more drive train wear giving more regular maintenence (chain and cog replacements), also, if anything goes wrong with the motor or control system, it is not user repairable. Bosch operate a locked system.
Your original thought of a rear hub kit circumvents both these issues, giving you a reliable system that, should anything go wrong, you know your way around and generic parts are easily available.
As you seem a practcal kinda bloke, I'd say go that way.
I run a front hub with two parralleled batteries, giving an approximate capacity of 28Ah, (Not for commutting but for Welsh hills).
Whilst the bike is very heavy this does give a large, on the flat, range with less strain on each battery, so extending their life.
One battery is rack mounted the other is in a pannier.
This would allow you higher power settings used over extended periods helping to up your average speed.

 

[zombiemax69]

So my pal is a bike mechanic and he has found me the following... Whoosh rear hub kit,MXUS XF08C, 45Nm motor. 36v, 15Ah yielding 540Wh with Samsung cells - what do you reckon?

 

[sjpt]

It's Woosh, but yes, highly recommended as a supplier.
That XF08C is very similar to the XF07 (front wheel) we have on our tandem (from Woosh). It's a bit underpowered for the tandem but should be good for your commute. You might prefer to pay a little more for the SWX02-48V. Ask Woosh's advice; they want to sell you the right kit.

It should (just) get you to work and back on a charge on middle assistance settings, but if it were me I'd be happier to charge it at work. You may be tired on the way home and want to use a bit more assistance.

 

[zombiemax69]

Hey everyone... I missed out on the woosh kit unfortunately - however I found a 2020 carrera subway e with very few miles on it (less than 99 charge cycles, battery showing 80% + capacity) and perfect condition (the tyres and brakes look pretty much new) for £250. I don't know if I'll keep it as those bikes don't seem to have a great reputation - but I'm going to trial it out tomorrow. Can always sell for a decent profit if not. I've also been offered a second battery for a reasonable price, so maybe for now this is my budget solution and I'll build a proper bike when I've decided if it's a viable commuting solution or not. Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[guerney]

less than 99 charge cycles, battery showing 80% + capacity

How do you know for certain that it's had less than 99 charge cycles? I don't know much about ebike batteries, but 20%-ish loss of capacity seems like a lot for 99.

 

[zombiemax69]

How do you know for certain that it's had less than 99 charge cycles? I don't know much about ebike batteries, but 20%-ish loss of capacity seems like a lot for 99.

So it's between 80% and 100%... the battery display only gives you figure accurate to 20%

 

[zombiemax69]

So I trailed the commute today... I was worried the battery wouldn't last, but still had two bars on the display by the time I got to work. Fully loaded with pannier bag etc - also wasn't quite sure of the way so had to stop a couple of times. I reckon I can get it down to 1 hour 15... but I don't think the 15.5 mph restriction is doing it for me - and the careera feels sooooo heavy. Trying to maintain speed above that is hard work. I think I'll end up selling, buy a kit and build something lighter.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

So I trailed the commute today... I was worried the battery wouldn't last, but still had two bars on the display by the time I got to work. Fully loaded with pannier bag etc - also wasn't quite sure of the way so had to stop a couple of times. I reckon I can get it down to 1 hour 15... but I don't think the 15.5 mph restriction is doing it for me - and the careera feels sooooo heavy. Trying to maintain speed above that is hard work. I think I'll end up selling, buy a kit and build something lighter.

Sounds like you want a lightweight road bike but perhaps with a small hub motor to help with the hills. Perhaps something with a 200-300Wh battery and a 45Nm front or rear geared hub motor. Yose kit or similar.

 

[AndyBike]

What about an E-moped ?

I'd avoid like the plague any that dont have a history of making standard mopeds as there are a great deal importing crud into the UK, so they're usually racked with problems and faults.

Something like Piaggio would be much better.
£2350

Piaggio 1: E-scooter For Urban Travel | Piaggio UK

Piaggio 1: e-scooter designed for zero-emission urban travel, with fresh, young style and high performance. Discover the model and book a test ride!

www.piaggio.com

Ebikes are horribly expensive, and i've even go so far to say they are completely overpriced. For the same money as above you'll get an ebike thats built using pretty much the bottom of the range componentry, which in truth are not up to the job and have next to no longevity.

I could have bought two of these for what I paid for my Ebike, and still have funds left over for a good quality lid plus accessories.

 

[zombiemax69]

Sounds like you want a lightweight road bike but perhaps with a small hub motor to help with the hills. Perhaps something with a 200-300Wh battery and a 45Nm front or rear geared hub motor. Yose kit or similar.

This sounds like a good shout... I think I'm going to get rid of everything I have now (the carrera, my carbon racer, my hybrid) and put all the money into buying a nice light CX frameset and a kit to go with it. I could just convert my road bike, but the 700 25c tyres are as wide as I can go on there and I think I'd like to go a little wider for comfort.

Is this the kit you mean? https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit-with-battery/products/e-bike-conversion-kit-36v-250w-rear-motor-kit-for-freewheel-with-36v13ah-battery-and-charger

 

[zombiemax69]

Hmmmm or maybe I might try fitting a kit to my road bike and stick a CX fork on the front - try running 28 on the back and 32 on the front. Also, are the yose kits dongleable?

 

[StuartsProjects]

Main risk is if you are involved in an accident, in which case the police or the other parties insurers may look very closely.

They could do.

And I wonder what impact it would have on a drivers future insurance premiums if they had a conviction for using a vehicle (dongled eBike ?) on the road without insurance ?

I do pay for 3rd party liability insurance for my eBike since I do like\need the house I own, dont want to loose it if I was sued for damages as a result of an 'accident'.