New to e-bikes - Buying decision - Help Needed

[carima]

Hello all. First post, so be gentle with me.

Great site by the way, it has been fun reading up on things and invaluable in my research.

I stumbled across this whole e-bike thing a few months ago when looking into electric scooters (The licensed type, Vectrix etc). Anyway, the electric scooter is off the cards as they don't reliably have the range at the moment for my 50+ mile round trip commute, so it is a cycle to the station (3-4 miles) and train from there (Much nicer anyway). A couple of nasty hills though mean I'm usually unpleasent by the time I get to the station and I want something to 'flatten' things out.

However, I'm in a slight dilema with which bike to get.

I tried out the Cytronex (Claud Butler) and thought it was fantastic. Very well put together and the battery is a winner for me as I can remove it easily and carry it with me when the bike is locked at the station. On a similar thought process, I tried the Powabyke X-24, but I have to be honest, it was such a step down from the Cytronex in quality that I'm not sure I could live with it.

I also gave the Trek 7.3FX+ a try, which was again top quality and the Bionx system (with the integrate computer) was very pleasing, but the battery is pretty hefting and I don't think I need the range.

The problem I have with the Cytonex (and the Trek) is that it is pedelec only (Please correct me if I have this wrong) and the motorcyclist part of me is tempted by the idea of going under power only with a twist grip. I found on the Trek that I was constantly adjusting the power setting so I'm concerned that, being a control freak, I might be frustrated by the lack of adjustability, particularly on the Cytronex. Finally, on the Trek test ride I really noticed the abrupt 25/26kph motor cut out and kept wanting it to go faster (I tried the Cytronex on hills climbs and not really on the flat for speed unfortunately).

After all this, I'm starting to settle on a Cytonex based bike with the uprated 190rpm motor to help on the speed front. Unfortunately, doing the sums I'm not sure I can stretch to the CB, but am hoping the Ridgeback won't be too much of a step down.

I'd really appreciate any comment from you experienced e-bikers on my thought process. I'm not exactly flush with cash so don't want to make the wrong choice on this one.

Thanks for any help you can provide.



John

 

[Straylight]

Why not look at getting a Wisper with the smaller 8Ah battery? This would easily cover your range requirement, has a powerful motor, with throttle control & of course has the 'off road option' for a few more mph.

 

[carima]

Thanks for your response Straylight.

The bikes with the upright battery behind the seat post haven't particularly appealed to me, but I confess this might be an entirely aesthetic issue I should really get over. How do the Whispers act as normal bikes?

I should have mentioned that my aspiration (May be not realistic), is to have one that could be used as a normal bike when the power assist isn't needed or can't be used (Such as when on holiday and when not able to charge up the battery). In this regard, the bike would be replacing my current pedal bike, as well as being used for powered commute. Hence my approach to looking at normal bikes, effectively converted.

So many options!

 

[Straylight]

I'd equate riding my 905se without power to riding one of the heavy old dutch bikes, fine once you get going, but not very quick off the mark I haven't tried riding it without the battery though, and this would make it a fair bit lighter. I think you'll find that all e-bikes suffer in comparison to their standard cousins, when riden unpowered, as you'll always have the extra weight of the motor at least.

 

[Barnowl]

The problem I have with the Cytonex (and the Trek) is that it is pedelec only (Please correct me if I have this wrong) and the motorcyclist part of me is tempted by the idea of going under power only with a twist grip. I found on the Trek that I was constantly adjusting the power setting so I'm concerned that, being a control freak, I might be frustrated by the lack of adjustability, particularly on the Cytronex. Finally, on the Trek test ride I really noticed the abrupt 25/26kph motor cut out and kept wanting it to go faster (I tried the Cytronex on hills climbs and not really on the flat for speed unfortunately).
John

I have the Trek which isn't sold now by Cytronex. This bike is not pedelec only but rather has 2 speed buttons which provide power regardless of whether you pedal or not. I believe the new system is Pedelec only but does have some useful enhancements like providing power automatically after 5mph.
It's a tough one but for me to it would come down to the Cytronex or the Wisper (my 2 favourites this time last year). I do find having power while I'm struggling to get my foot into the toe clip a benefit but apart from that "pedelec only" is a non issue for me. Being on the flat I'd have thought the single speed bikes might have been tempting.

 

[carima]

Barnowl - That explains some of my slight confusion with the Cytronex where I saw a suggestion it was possible for power-only, but didn't recall seeing how in when I tested it.

Could you explain this 'Automatic power over 5mph'. Does this solve one of my concerns about the Cytronex; namely that I had to keep turning the system back on after every brake?

You are right about the single speed options. I did test the Genesis (I think) single speed and was really surprised. I have always dismissed these and would have done again were it not for the chap at the shop (Completely forgotten his name regrettably - Very helpful) persuading me to give it a go. It was really great. While I'm not unfit (Average BMI etc), I'm certainly not a powerful cyclist and wouldn't have had a chance getting up that hill up the road from the shop on a normal single speed. If I still lived in London or somewhere without hills, that would be a real option. I fear a little too limited as it is.

I've actually just got some positive feedback from my company about using the Cycle to Work type scheme, so given that Modern Times can help with the £1000 problem, I think that could mean the Cytronex is the one for me.

Do you happen to know anyone who can comment on the higher rpm motor on the bike, aside form the legal issues. Primarily I'm interested in any impact on hill-climbing and battery life?

Thanks for you help!

 

[Barnowl]

Barnowl - That explains some of my slight confusion with the Cytronex where I saw a suggestion it was possible for power-only, but didn't recall seeing how in when I tested it.

Could you explain this 'Automatic power over 5mph'. Does this solve one of my concerns about the Cytronex; namely that I had to keep turning the system back on after every brake?

You are right about the single speed options. I did test the Genesis (I think) single speed and was really surprised. I have always dismissed these and would have done again were it not for the chap at the shop (Completely forgotten his name regrettably - Very helpful) persuading me to give it a go. It was really great. While I'm not unfit (Average BMI etc), I'm certainly not a powerful cyclist and wouldn't have had a chance getting up that hill up the road from the shop on a normal single speed. If I still lived in London or somewhere without hills, that would be a real option. I fear a little too limited as it is.

I've actually just got some positive feedback from my company about using the Cycle to Work type scheme, so given that Modern Times can help with the £1000 problem, I think that could mean the Cytronex is the one for me.

Do you happen to know anyone who can comment on the higher rpm motor on the bike, aside form the legal issues. Primarily I'm interested in any impact on hill-climbing and battery life?

Thanks for you help!

Yes another member pointed this out to me recently. When I last looked the Cytronex site still didn't make this clear. There's a few regulars with the newer system who might chip in with some usefull advice regarding the system restarting after braking. I have tried it and I can't remember it being an issue. If not email Mark at Cytronex. The 190 RPM motor rather than the 175 might be more suitable since it should give you an extra mile or two top speed MPH. Of couse that would be at the cost of a bit of hill climbing ability (torque). I don't think the battery range would be much affected on the flat since you should generally get a fair range anyway.

 

[themutiny]

The system needs to be restarted after braking - well officially. It is relatively easy to move the magnet and bypass this, or move it so that only a really good tug will stop it, however I doubt that Mark would approve. From what you have said about using the bike as a normal bike, this is the real benefit of the Cytronex. With no battery, and if you get Mark to supply you a 'normal' wheel (which can be swapped out in about 30 seonds) you have a normal bike. The ridgeback is a very good bike, but the geometry doesn't suit everyone, and the dealbreaker for some is the 26" wheels.

 

[carima]

Thats really interesting to hear, particularly the bit about the magnet. If this proves to be the way I go (it is looking likely), then I might have to get back to you for some advice on that.

The 26" wheel certainly isn't at issue for me, in fact it is preferably if only because I already have quite a few pairs of decent 26" tyres from my current bike that might be useful in the future.

With regards to geometry, I assume you are partly referring to the sloping cross bar. As I am just over 6' with pretty lanky legs, I was hoping that 21 or 23" frame would help with this. It has been so long since I bought a bit new bike that I'm not even sure what is best for me now....what an amateur!

 

[Barnowl]

If you go for the Ridgeback get Cytronex to size you up for the right frame size and try the bike before you leave. The trip to the station is ideal stuff for this system and you'll only need to charge it every 3rd or 4th day. I don't think the extra RPM will make much difference over 4 miles in practice. If you've a couple of nasty hills on the way I'd go for the standard legal one with the extra torque in preference.
The NIMH battery used is great in that it charges in an 1.5 hours max and won't be too heavy to take with you. I usually put mine on charge while I'm getting ready for work.
I'm sure you'll be contemplating the 50+ round trip in no time

 

[themutiny]

Re the magnet. there is a small magnet attached to the brake cable of the rear brake. When the cable is pulled, the magnet moves away from the switch which stops the power, which then needs to be reactivated by the button on the handlebar. I'm not recommending or condoning it, as I think the system works fine as per design, but if the magnet is removed from the cable and attached to the switch with (say) electrical tape, then this would bypass the cutout. It will be quite obvious if/when you see it.

I would endorse the comments about this system being ideal for your needs, and I would also go for the 175 personally, as the hill climbing ability is extremely good for such a small motor. When there are no hills/headwinds then I just ride it as a normal bike. Riding in this fashion allows me to cover 40 miles on one charge (depending on the terrain). The 90 min recharge is also a very big plus. I now get really impatient with the 5hr+ of my li-ions. Pretty good after-sales too.

 

[sopht]

Trek Cytronex or Ride+?

Hi, just wondered whether the Trek bike you referred to was a Trek Cytronex, or one of Trek's new in-house electric bike range?

regards, Soph

 

[flecc]

Hi, just wondered whether the Trek bike you referred to was a Trek Cytronex, or one of Trek's new in-house electric bike range?

regards, Soph

It's the 2008 Cytronex-Trek which uses the Tongxin motor with two button control that's referred to in this thread sopht.

Trek's own electric bike models use the BionX motor with it's four way switched control.

Just to confuse things further, there's a Chinese bike brought in by 720cycles called the Rush Trek, and that uses a Suzhou Bafang motor with throttle control. This is in no way connected with Trek Bicycles.
.

 

[daniel.weck]

Just to confuse things further, there's a Chinese bike brought in by 720cycles called the Rush Trek, and that uses a Suzhou Bafang motor with throttle control. This is in no way connected with Trek Bicycles.
.

Looks like a good e-bike for the price !

RUSH TREK CITY ELECTRIC BIKE - LiFePO4 BATTERY 2YR WAR' on eBay (end time 12-Sep-09 13:54:50 BST)

Do you know them Flecc ?

Kind Regards, Daniel

 

[flecc]

I don't Daniel, but we have some members with these bikes, both in an earlier version and now the latest, and all are very pleased with them. As you say, they are excellent value in today's market.

For anyone who can't stretch to the well over £1000 top e-bikes but who doesn't want to drop to the £400 to £700 budget models, these seem a good compromise.
.

 

[daniel.weck]

Looks like a good e-bike for the price !

RUSH TREK CITY ELECTRIC BIKE - LiFePO4 BATTERY 2YR WAR' on eBay (end time 12-Sep-09 13:54:50 BST)

Do you know them Flecc ?

Kind Regards, Daniel

Replying to myself:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/members/720-cycles.html

 

[daniel.weck]

I don't Daniel, but we have some members with these bikes, both in an earlier version and now the latest, and all are very pleased with them. As you say, they are excellent value in today's market.

For anyone who can't stretch to the well over £1000 top e-bikes but who doesn't want to drop to the £400 to £700 budget models, these seem a good compromise.
.

I must use the 'search' feature before hitting the reply button too quick !

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4451-improved-rush-trek.html

Thank you !

 

[carima]

Sopht,

Not sure if you were asking about my reference to the Trek, or one of the others, but in my case I was referring to the Trek + (Not the Cytronex version). At least this was one of the bikes that I tried out along with newer Cytronex (no longer based on a Trek), which as Flecc pointed out has the Bionx system.

John

 

[sopht]

Hello John, apologies for not replying earlier - yes, I did mean to direct my question at you. I was wondering if you'd tried out the Ride+, especially as you'd tried a Cytronex too - did you find them very different? Also, did the weight distribution of the Ride+ (all at the rear) seem awkward?

Soph

 

[carima]

Not a prob Soph.

I think the bike I tried was the Ride+, although it was referred to as the Trek 7.3fx+ at the shop. Either way, it was the one with Bionx system.

Unfortunately, I tried the Trek in central London and Cytronex up the hills in Winchester, so a direct comparison was a little tricky.

The Trek was definitely well made and would have fulfilled what I was looking for, namely a traditional looking hybrid bike (With the exception of the battery rack).

I don't know if you have looked at the Bionx system before, but to my untrained eye it did look very advanced. Not sure how useful the four power settings are as I played with them for a bit and then just stuck it on the highest. The acceleration was very satisfying away from the lights!

The battery is quite bulky (but not all that heavy), but I have no doubt this is necessary to achieve the claimed range. I don't recall this really impacting on the balance that much, it certainly felt like a competent bike. The battery is very securely mounted, but for my tastes is too large to comfortably remove and carry with me on a daily basis.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful on the specific issue. As I was in London traffic most of the time, I didn't lean over all that much to notice any stability issues.

Just for reference, it was Action Cycles nr Embankment where I tested it. Very helpful chap in there if you are local and can get in for a test.