New VAT rules for overseas sellers supplying goods to UK customers - Any experiences yet?

PC2017

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send British parcels into the EU
I fear it'll be same which ever way round items are sent, I heard today amazon will remove some products normally sold from EU to Ireland (food supplements I believe) as the admin is too much hassle or complex for certain products, I did not pay too much attention to this so I could be wrong but I feel this is the start of a huge cluster....
 

jonathan75

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Today I read on the dot gov website that as from xxth Jan 2021, imports under £135 including p&p don't attract import VAT or customs duty.

Does this mean the £8 royal mail customs processing fee is also gone for these items, given there's no customs 'duty' to process, or am I missing something here? After all it used to be 'keep it under £15 coming from China and you're golden" whereas now the £15 Low Value Consignment Relief (LVCR) has gone AND we're apparently still able to order bits of £2 tat from eBay arriving straight from China.

It's unthinkable that a £2 set of ebay clothespegs DIRECT from Shenzhen is now going to attract an £8 Royal Mail customs processing fee, right? And there's now no legal difference between that £2 clothespegs package and a £134 clothespegs package from Shenzhen, right? So does this or does this not mean that the hated £8 Royal Mail customs processing charge is also abolished for the £134 clothespegs package?

Jonathan M

EDIT - assuming the answer is "yes Jonathan, the £8 customs processing fee has gone" then what happens to the wholly China-based seller in relation to VAT (given he has to collect it somehow)?
 

soundwave

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last item i got from china was £253 ordered 1st jan and did not pay anything but there was no value of the item on the box neither was it opened.

but if i got it from the usa id get hammered with import duty and would of been torn open and looked at o_O
 
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PC2017

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imports under £135 including p&p don't attract import VAT or customs duty.
You had me stumped their for a while - but I THINK from very quick research and I must stress my lack of understanding here...

Yep its a mine field - Correct me if I am wrong - "import" VAT and VAT are different - Quote from a quick google....

"VAT on imported goods is paid directly to HMRC, while domestic VAT is normally paid to a supplier of goods "

And "customs duty" is paid on over £135 and Alcohol etc

Quote "Customs duty refers to the tax imposed on goods when they are transported across international borders. In simple terms, it is the tax that is levied on import and export of goods. The government uses this duty to raise its revenues, safeguard domestic industries, and regulate movement of goods."

You still have to pay VAT and RM charges - UNLESS the company or Marketplace collected the VAT at the point of sale then the overseas company SHOULD as they file the customs declaration print a VAT registration number either the Marketplaces or their own and then THEN in theory your package should just arrive as normal NO RM CHARGES.... From my understanding of it - Some companies can not be bothered with this hassle so they've removed UK from their shipping... I think
 
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sjpt

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This crossed with PC2017's post (not sure why I didn't get the 'there are other messages' prompt.
I think we are saying pretty much the same thing?

One extra comment on his: I think alcohol etc may both have higher levels of VAT AND be subject to excise duty as well as VAT and Import duty?
...

Today I read on the dot gov website that as from xxth Jan 2021, imports under £135 including p&p don't attract import VAT or customs duty.

Does this mean the £8 royal mail customs processing fee is also gone for these items, given there's no customs 'duty' to process, or am I missing something here? After all it used to be 'keep it under £15 coming from China and you're golden" whereas now the £15 Low Value Consignment Relief (LVCR) has gone AND we're apparently still able to order bits of £2 tat from eBay arriving straight from China.

It's unthinkable that a £2 set of ebay clothespegs DIRECT from Shenzhen is now going to attract an £8 Royal Mail customs processing fee, right? And there's now no legal difference between that £2 clothespegs package and a £134 clothespegs package from Shenzhen, right? So does this or does this not mean that the hated £8 Royal Mail customs processing charge is also abolished for the £134 clothespegs package?

Jonathan M

EDIT - assuming the answer is "yes Jonathan, the £8 customs processing fee has gone" then what happens to the wholly China-based seller in relation to VAT (given he has to collect it somehow)?
I've just realized from other posts here that there are separate Supply Vat and Import Vat. As I read it for goods under £135 the supplier is meant to collect and pay Supply Vat. I assume that is at some percentage rate (different % for different goods), which would make the difference between your £2 and a £134 packages. If that's the case, it would certainly have been more helpful if the dot gov website you referenced had pointed it out, rather than just saying Import Vat wasn't chargeable.

It may be that the page
covers this ... I'm just too confused (but I suspect I'm not the only person who is confused).
 
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soundwave

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PC2017

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I'm just too confused
Yep me too - this was why I started this thread. Your understanding tallies with mine... I think lol o_O:oops:

I summed it up to my Dad last night who didn't get either - get this...

As the purchaser it is your responsibility to ensure the "seller" files the correct info on the customs declaration... So we have to trust the "seller" pays the VAT or the marketplace takes the VAT and then follows the rules when posting it - And hopefully we don't all get stung by Royal mail - Please don't forget if you do get charged you can I suppose refuse delivery ergo no charges.
 
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PC2017

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sjpt

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Bought 2 items from AliExpress this month. Both less than a tenner, and both attracted an extra 20% vat at check-out! Both have arrived OK.
The 20% is of course irritating, but I think we would all agree (some hope!) perfectly fair. Obviously the seller/AliExpress have between them sorted out how to do it properly.

Without that there was previously effectively a 20% non-import tax; you payed 20% VAT on things made in UK and nothing on low value imported things.
 

PC2017

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Bought 2 items from AliExpress this month
Did you keep the packaging - I would like to see the customs declaration - if not no worries.

Obviously the seller/AliExpress have between them sorted out how to do it properly
I really hope so, I have ordered two cross blades for my juicer (amazon) and some ecig stuff from Fasttech I am under no illusion that the fasttech package will get through as I was never charged VAT at the POS however amazon did take an estimated VAT for my cross blades.

I can't help but ponder if some sellers sorted UK warehouse space and shipped the most requested items before this all went pear shaped - I remember buying my Firefly Cam from gearbest in 2017, I put away an extra few quid to cover VAT & RM (that still worked out a few quid cheaper then ebay) to my surprise it was delivered in 5 working days and posted from the UK even though I purchased it from the "China" warehouse the spare few quid bought a nice summer pint, the good old days!.
 

RonnieX

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@PC2017 sorry, all packaging binned. It was a large sticker on the back, stipulating description of contents and value. Not too dissimilar to what it used to be pre-brexit!
 
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soundwave

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$15 ;)
 
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jonathan75

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Bought 2 items from AliExpress this month. Both less than a tenner, and both attracted an extra 20% vat at check-out! Both have arrived OK.
I heard this requires something like the seller to have set up a special VAT account based somehow in the UK, and that it's improbable most sellers in distant marketplaces (e.g. Aliexpress) will actually do this, and so for now marketplace sellers will probably have a heavy incentive to fake the VAT numbers.

I do feel like we're all getting to the bottom of what the rules are...!

Edit - perhaps Aliexpress are offering a VAT collection service for their marketplace sellers. That would make some sense.
 

jonathan75

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I THINK from very quick research...
...

You still have to pay VAT and RM charges - UNLESS the company or Marketplace collected the VAT at the point of sale then the overseas company SHOULD as they file the customs declaration print a VAT registration number either the Marketplaces or their own and then THEN in theory your package should just arrive as normal NO RM CHARGES.... From my understanding of it - Some companies can not be bothered with this hassle so they've removed UK from their shipping... I think
That sounds like it's probably right - that the rule is this: IF the sale says it includes VAT, then if it's under £135, and their VAT admin is legit, and it's not fags or booze (i.e. excise-duty-liable stuff) then no RM charge from anywhere we currently import from, including the US. unless something's gone wrong with the VAT admin in which case it might be possible to refuse collection, and seek a refund, although this will sometimes be a drastic option, as it will if successful cause a loss for the sender.

Does that sound right?
 
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soundwave

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so as long as the seller lies on the cost of the item and it is not opened to check what it is inside the box i can keep getting robots from china with no import fee or vat added then same as b4.
 

jonathan75

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so as long as the seller lies on the cost of the item and it is not opened to check what it is inside the box i can keep getting robots from china with no import fee or vat added then same as b4.
Haha my family has lawbreaking in its blood, but I'm trying to reduce my desire to do it to zero for various reasons, be a better person etc. It takes me conscious effort...! ;)
 

soundwave

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Haha my family has lawbreaking in its blood, but I'm trying to reduce my desire to do it to zero for various reasons, be a better person etc. It takes me conscious effort...! ;)
thing is if i bought it from the usa it gets stopped and charged every single time and the box is sliced to bits as well.

like i can get a fake Rolex from china no problem but if i tried to get a fake one sent from the usa id never get it.
yet postage from china is free but from the usa it is a fortune!

i dont get it lol
 
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jonathan75

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thing is if i bought it from the usa it gets stopped and charged every single time and the box is sliced to bits as well.

like i can get a fake Rolex from china no problem but if i tried to get a fake one sent from the usa id never get it.
yet postage from china is free but from the usa it is a fortune!

i dont get it lol
.
I truly don't understand why either! :) I suppose thinking about it, it could be that because Chinese sellers enjoy subsidised manufacturing and subsidised postage for smaller packages, via Chinapost, which apparently exploits a rule in international postage treaties in a slightly dishonest way, it's possible for them to send dirt cheap things at tiny cost, so that the chances of there being anything of value are tiny, whereas from America, where shipping labour is unionised and everything costs a lot, the chances are anything you buy will have serious value.
 

soundwave

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fanstoys astrotrain / Thomas is not cheap or tiny fkn thing could smash a car window lol :p