New Woosh bikes?

[JohnCade]

I just looked at the Woosh site and there are a couple of bikes there which I haven't seen before.

The Sport CD, which seems to be the same as the Sirocco CD but without mudguards, and with a more MB look plus a smaller bottle battery, and the Sport TS which is a torque sensor bike with what seems to be a rear hub motor. I am waiting to hear if I have been allocated one of the BBs which have arrived, but I was leaning toward the Sirocco CD before it sold out and this Sport CD might suit me better than a BB since I do want to peddle for fitness. The range is more limited but I'm not sure that's a problem for me as I don't want to go very long distances.

But the TS is also interesting. I wonder how it would compare in rider experience to the CD?

 

[trex]

The CD is better, stronger motor, climbs hills better, slicker gears too.
If you dislike derailleur noise, then the TS is better.
The TS does not have throttle, you set the assist level then pedal away.
Motor stops when you stop pedalling. I like it but that's because I like pedalling and don't have throttle on my bike. The only thing wrong with it: you can't personalize the torque sensor for off-roading. Pedal pressure is converted to throttle level. The range of pedal pressure to go from 0 to 100% throttle is roughly about the pedal effort going from zero gradient to 5% gradient, I would have liked to be able to tweak it.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The motor in the TS is really nice. It's smooth and quiet. The torque sensor and controller combine to give just the right amount of power for normal riding; however, it doesn't have a lot of torque for climbing steep hills. If you're not too heavy or you don't have steep hills, you'll love it.

The Big Bear is totally different. You can get get a lot of torque for climbing hills. You can be lazy if you want too, but you can also turn the power down to pedal as hard as you want.

They all have advantages and disadvantages. As I'm a bit lardy, I prefer the Big Bear, but I wouldn't complain if I has to have a CD. I'd have to avoid some of my worst hills, which are as steep as 30% if I had the TS.

 

[JohnCade]

I thought these might be new models as I haven't noticed them before. Have they been around for a while?

 

[trex]

the Sport CD is out for about a year, the TS about 8 months.

 

[jackhandy]

this Sport CD might suit me better than a BB since I do want to peddle for fitness. The range is more limited but I'm not sure that's a problem for me as I don't want to go very long distances.

You seem to have a bit of a conflict of interests there

If you really intend to improve your fitness, you'll definitely end up going greater distances as you get more comfortable on the bike.

My experience is that, since I started riding my Ezee, which has as much grunt as anything legal, my fitness has improved so much that my heartrate, which used to soar to over 160bpm, now barely exceeds 135 on the same hills; on the same bike!

Don't, for a minute, think you'll be cruising around without pedalling on any 250/350 watt ebike:
It will not happen.
What will happen is that you'll find the hills that you wouldn't even try on a non-powered, or inadequately-powered bike, now become climbable with a reasonable amount of effort: In fact, you'll probably choose to include the odd gut-buster of a climb into your routes; just because you can.

The great thing, I find, is that the excercise I get on the bike is fairly low-impact - No ball-busting struggle - but I'm often surprised at how hard I'm puffing without being uncomfortable.

 

[JohnCade]

You seem to have a bit of a conflict of interests there

If you really intend to improve your fitness, you'll definitely end up going greater distances as you get more comfortable on the bike.

My experience is that, since I started riding my Ezee, which has as much grunt as anything legal, my fitness has improved so much that my heartrate, which used to soar to over 160bpm, now barely exceeds 135 on the same hills; on the same bike!

Don't, for a minute, think you'll be cruising around without pedalling on any 250/350 watt ebike:
It will not happen.
What will happen is that you'll find the hills that you wouldn't even try on a non-powered, or inadequately-powered bike, now become climbable with a reasonable amount of effort: In fact, you'll probably choose to include the odd gut-buster of a climb into your routes; just because you can.

The great thing, I find, is that the excercise I get on the bike is fairly low-impact - No ball-busting struggle - but I'm often surprised at how hard I'm puffing without being uncomfortable.

Well that is exactly what I want. I don't think I'd been cruising without pedaling. Unless I bought a Big Bear when I probably could most of the time even here, and then I'd be peddling much of the time anyway because I wanted to. So exercise and exploring parts of the coast I've hardly visited in the years I've been here is the idea. I used to ride a road trainer on circuits of hilly Hertfordshire just for fitness until about fifteen years ago when I moved here from London. But a combination of drivers who will slow down to a stop for a horse, but will try to force a bike off the road, plus losing cycling fitness working on the new house made me give it up.

I never had the slightest qualm riding around the north London and Hertfordshire commuter rat runs, but some of the drivers here will kill you and not even know they'd done it.

I did buy a half decent MB a few years ago when the dog got too old to run with and I was alright on the hills after a bit. But it never got much easier after that really - if it ever does when you get older. Unlike before when I had total confidence getting up any hill. I never did go really long distances though even on the road bikes years ago. I used to time trial instead and go pretty much flat out most of the time along with sprints and recovery. So a thirty odd mile range with some effort from me in the hilly country where I live will do I expect.

It would be nice to get longer range but then you also get a heavier bike which doesn't ride so well....

I'll make my mind up and order something tomorrow.

 

[jackhandy]

Be sure to let us know which way you jump & how you get on.

 

[JohnCade]

Well I ordered a Woosh Sports CD yesterday which will turn up next week I'm told. I would have had a Sirocco CD for the bigger battery if the wait wasn't so long since this one is only 9ah.

I've been trying to get some info on the real likely range with this bike, battery, and my likely input. Using the woosh predictor as far as I can make out I'm likely to use something like 195wh for a 13 mile round trip at 15 mph to a nice fishing village at the bottom of a steep cove. That is a fair old chunk out of a 350wh battery. It works out as 15wh per mile giving a total range of just over 23 miles around here; and I suspect that's optimistic too since other sites indicate 20wh per mile at least in hilly country giving a little under 18 miles range.

I know it depends on how much input I am able and willing to put in, but the thing is I don't really know what assumptions of rider effort this predictor is based on.

The only prediction which would really make sense would be one based on no pedaling at all. Then by working out how much I'm going to input, I could extrapolate my likely range from that.

So given that I'm still a fairly fit late sixties and intend to get fitter if I can how much power am I likely to use per mile?

For instance I will probably leave it on the second power setting just for some assist, and use the throttle to help me up the steep hills, and once up and rolling, pedal past the cut off on the flat except into a stiff head wind. So does anyone else have a bike like the Sport CD with a 9ah battery and use it like that in hilly country? If so what is their real world range?

 

[trex]

there are two believable sources regarding power consumption.
1. Bosch eco mode. This is the standard benchmark, practically quoted by most Bosch bike makers.
speed: 20km, gradient: 0, personal: rider's weight: 70kgs, bike: 20kgs motor contributes 30% of whatever the rider puts in. Consumption: 300WH for 145km.
From this base, one calulate the power consumption on throttle at 20km/h = 1.604 * 300 * 13 / (145 * 3) = 14.4 WH per mile at 12.5 mph for a 20kg bike + 70kg rider.

2. visit the e-bike emulator at ebike.ca
There is a full chapter on the physics of power consumption. Essentially, the air resistance is the key factor which is proportional to the cube of the rider's speed. You can look at the load line - it's a bit parabolic in shape. The tool is useful to extrapolate the power consumption at different speed, gradient and rider's weight. You can also match the load to the motor and look up the maximum throttle speed, that's where the output of the motor is the same as power consumption. If the output of the motor is lesser than the load line (ie the power output plot is below the load line), the rider has to input the difference to reach the target speed. Roughly speaking, normal riders can produce between 100W to 200W, the Sport CD can produce about 400W at maximum throttle.
Real world range depends very much on target speed, headwind and gradient. I can show how to calculate step by step from these parameters but it's diffcult to create a function for them. Allow 15WH for windy day, 10WH for perfect day. That translates to between 20 (windy day) to 30 miles (perfect day) for a full charge on your Sport CD with you pedalling leisurely (pink but not sweating).

 

[JohnCade]

Thanks trex. Those mileage figures seem about the sort I would hope for. So if I did crank on I expect I could up them by a fair bit if I needed to go a bit further.

Pink but not sweating sounds good but it doesn't conjure up images of cycling to me....

The Bosch figures on the flat with the rider doing seventy percent of the work to get 145km on 300wh is quite impressive really. Of course that would imply a still day but I wonder if it really takes account of drag? Even at 20kph on a still day unstreamlined bodies have a fair bit of drag depending on seating and handlebar position.

I must admit I never liked the MB type handlebars much when I did buy one. I vastly prefer to ride with my palms on the top of the brake/gear levers of road bike bars, and you can always drop down in the wind with them. You can get better leverage for climbing with road bars too.

I'll look at the site you recommend. I expect I'll get a feel for how far I can go on a leisurely ride and how far I can when I want a good workout after a bit. I live on a steep hill and I'd like to leave a bit in reserve to help me up that on the way home though so wouldn't want to run completely out of power at the last....