Newcomer from the US

[DBonar]

Hi all!

Retired guy getting back into cycling (which is a crazy way to phrase things since I really haven't done a lot of cycling since the 1990s). Right now I'm easing back into things with an used old Trek comfort/commuter/hybrid but ultimately I'm interested in adding a bit of a boost with either a hub or mid drive conversion. I apologize ahead of time if I manage to annoy anyone. Whether it's a bit of undiagnosed neorodivergence or merely the brain of an engineer I like to know why. This does seem to annoy some people because I don't like to take the expert opinion without digging into the details and often tinkering around to some.

 

[saneagle]

Hi all!

Retired guy getting back into cycling (which is a crazy way to phrase things since I really haven't done a lot of cycling since the 1990s). Right now I'm easing back into things with an used old Trek comfort/commuter/hybrid but ultimately I'm interested in adding a bit of a boost with either a hub or mid drive conversion. I apologize ahead of time if I manage to annoy anyone. Whether it's a bit of undiagnosed neorodivergence or merely the brain of an engineer I like to know why. This does seem to annoy some people because I don't like to take the expert opinion without digging into the details and often tinkering around to some.

Welcome. The rules are slightly different in UK to US, assuming that you're still living there. You're allowed motors with higher rated power and you can use an independent throttle if you want.

 

[thelarkbox]

Hi and welcome, Expectations of range and speed alongside details of the terrain covered (hills?) should guide you towards the optimal system for your use.

Your best positioned to research any local regs or laws you should conform with afaik it can change from territory to territory in the us? Specific us info may be more available on the US hosted https://endless-sphere.com/

Question anything - But Saneagle's fault finding procedures/instructions mid flow.. unless you want to waste time n effort.. the exception being you don't understand the instruction..

Two things i didnt fully consider pre conversion of my bike were:

1) Brakes, rim brakes will struggle to perform adequately. Especially if speeds over 15mph are expected.. I live with my rim brakes as i dont speed often due to road conditions which led me to discover rim wear happens!!

2) Comfort, pre-conversion, although not particularly athletic or an enthusiastic cyclist I would spend a lot of the time riding lifted out of the saddle. - Post conversion my back side is planted firmly in the saddle more often than not. As a consequence every bump in the rd can send shockwaves up your spine... ( a seat post suspension solution may be a worthwhile addition to your shopping list/budget.)

 

[DBonar]

Welcome.

Thanks.

I'm an American. I'm joining this forum as sort of a different take from Endless Sphere. They have loads of great information but from my reading they tend to lean farther into the idea that power solves everything / higher speed than I am aiming for. I'm really aiming for an electric assist and perfectly happy staying in the ebike regulations for my state (750W max, 20 mph max speed from the motor, and less than 100 pounds, throttle allowed but of course it must be pedalable).

Brakes, rim brakes will struggle to perform adequately

That's a big part of why I'm taking my conversion fairly slowly. My Trek 7700 FX has rim brakes. Right now the leading contender for the conversion is a tsdz2B 500W. If I find that the brakes are weak I should be able to convert to a disc brake system.

The plan is to make a keep it in power level 1 and cruise along at 15mph or so. The area around me is mostly fairly flat or rolling but with a few steep hills. When I was riding during Covid I found I still fall naturally into my rhythm from old road bikes of slower cadence and using the gears a lot which leads me to believe a mid drive, if geared properly, might act a lot like a non-electric bike but with a boast so I don't have to get out of the saddle to go up most of the hills.

 

[DBonar]

I possibly should add that I'm looking at mostly 30-40 mile range but, as with the brakes, I might well be willing to buy a smaller battery pack initially to give me around a 20 mile range. Then if I do want to get into 40 mile rides I can buy the bigger battery or a second smaller one to carry as a "refill".

Main use will be roads or paved bike paths. Some well done dirt/gravel bike paths but nothing that counts as a trail or real mountain biking!

 

[saneagle]

Thanks.

I'm an American. I'm joining this forum as sort of a different take from Endless Sphere. They have loads of great information but from my reading they tend to lean farther into the idea that power solves everything / higher speed than I am aiming for. I'm really aiming for an electric assist and perfectly happy staying in the ebike regulations for my state (750W max, 20 mph max speed from the motor, and less than 100 pounds, throttle allowed but of course it must be pedalable).



That's a big part of why I'm taking my conversion fairly slowly. My Trek 7700 FX has rim brakes. Right now the leading contender for the conversion is a tsdz2B 500W. If I find that the brakes are weak I should be able to convert to a disc brake system.

The plan is to make a keep it in power level 1 and cruise along at 15mph or so. The area around me is mostly fairly flat or rolling but with a few steep hills. When I was riding during Covid I found I still fall naturally into my rhythm from old road bikes of slower cadence and using the gears a lot which leads me to believe a mid drive, if geared properly, might act a lot like a non-electric bike but with a boast so I don't have to get out of the saddle to go up most of the hills.

Rim brakes are not going to cut it. They can be OK on an unconverted bike, but the extra speep and weight pushes them over the limit. Before you start, get a suitable donor with disc brakes. Remember, you don't need a super bike when you have a motor. All the things that helped you on your Trek become no longer necessary. What is important is brakes that work and tyres that don't get puctures. Also, for simple battery installation, a traditional triangular frame with horizontal cross-bar.

 

[DBonar]

All the things that helped you on your Trek become no longer necessary

I don't really understand this statement. Which, I'll admit, is why I put the apology in the first post about my mentality.

I've stated that I want to use a motor to make a bike move at 15mph. That is well within the expected use for such a bike with the original rim brakes. I'm not light at 85kg but my mass plus the mass of the motor and battery is well within the weight limits of the bike using the original rim brakes.

To move away from the brakes I want a normal riding experience with shifting and an actual need to pedal which is why I am mostly looking at mid drive with torque sensing. I might need to worry more about drive train wear due to starting and on longer hills but otherwise I'm planning to operate the bike within its normal operating parameters just with a mix of input from me and a motor.

 

[Nealh]

Regards rim brakes , although the bike speed is akin to a push bike . It is not the speed but the extra stopping force needed for the extra weight.
The rear brake can be a rim as it typically will account for only 20/25% of the braking used , crictically if onbe wants to keep the bike find some disc forks for it.

 

[thelarkbox]

Pretty much my attitude to my rim brakes pre conversion, Now with brake adjustments required weekly if not daily, and black brake block stained cream tyres, and becoming aware of RIM WEAR!! and on my 2nd 70mm upgraded from 50mm brake blocks on the front. Now im negotiating city centre pedestrians and medieval cobbled streets mostly, though shopping trips are round the city ring rd tracks so im usually at sub 10-12mph speeds..

-and if you have steel rims?? im pretty sure the cats meow (mu - coefficient of friction) for ali is way higher than steel, but as only an armchair engineer im happy to be corrected. Wet steel ? SHUDDER!

 

[DBonar]

im pretty sure the cats meow (mu - coefficient of friction) for ali is way higher than steel, but as only an armchair engineer im happy to be corrected. Wet steel ? SHUDDER!

Don't remind me! I haven't had steel rims this century but I remember them in the rain.

I'll seriously think about front disc brakes but I'm almost certain that I will get the conversion in a working state before adding them. Of course if it really feels unsafe of if I can't keep myself from pushing the speed I'll put the bike aside for a bit while I order them.

 

[Nealh]

The stopping power and safety of a front disc system is the first best upgrade.

 

[MikelBikel]

Maybe a pic of the bike as it is would help?
We envy your regs allowing 1 whole horsepower 750W, and 20mph, with throttle. Yes, sounds ideal.

If you only go on the flat and open areas with no sudden changes, maybe rim brakes will suffice.
Magura have more powerful hydraulic calipers that the Dutch are fond of, I believe?

Magura HS11 Hydraulic Caliper Brake Set - Carbotecture - Black

Magura HS11 Hydraulic Caliper Brake Set - Carbotecture - BlackThe HS11 from Magura is the youngest member of the HS family. With its enhanced master piston and an ergonomic 3-finger lever blade design, the HS11 is an uncomplicated everyday companion. With a revised master piston for high...

sportandleisure.com

 

[Raboa]

You could buy a new fork and wheel with disk brake fixings, cheaper than a new bike
There are disk adapters that fit onto your frame you can buy from online retailers and auction sites.

 

[thelarkbox]

With the suggested front brake upgrade, the rest of your plans seem very well suited to your needs. Although with zero mid drive experience i cant offer much insight on that subject.

Feel obliged to drop all your build pics, before, after, and during now you have set the scene..