Norman Baker, Lib Dem Transport Minister, screws cyclists again
- Thread starter Ultra Motor
- Start date
Lets hope so! This isn't positive news. The 'government' have always been 'anti 2-wheeler', personally I think something dodgy is going onDon't worry, if the cuts policy works (unlikely IMO) The Tories will get in on there own next time, and Lib/Dems will be hell bound for oblivion which is exactly what they deserve
For at least two decades our governments have been strongly pro-cycling, introducing tax incentives, allowances for ride-to-work schemes, encouragements to local authorities to build cyclepaths, support for Sustrans and for hire bike schemes like the Ken Livingstone/Boris Johnson bike hire scheme in London.
Trouble is that the desire has never been supported by cash, that usually left to local authorities and charities.
If there is something dodgy going on, it's likely to be the civil service, local government officers and/or local councils that are the blocking agents for progress, mostly car drivers of course.
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Sorry Flecc, your right- I should put it into context! The recent electric car subsidies etc. are all tailored toward 4 wheel transport rather than 2 wheel. This is where something is seriously wrong
I agree Mark, protests have never brought any improvement in this negative aspect of eco and electric subsidies. It may be a question of antipathy rather than antagonism in the policy, what is likely to be possible. The potential for economical i.c. cars and electric cars is vast compared to the very small potential for cycling in a country generally negative towards it as transport.
And of course our cause isn't helped if influential car-using senior civil servants are antagonistic.
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I'm having trouble seeing where the problem is myself, those figures appear quite meaningless.
As always Politicians like to talk cycle friendly but in reality, as Flecc says never back it up with cash. Take the cycle to work scheme - this should be an easy one. Allow people to buy bikes for commuting and as an incentive remove VAT (for those companies that register for it, not the NHS etc), NI and tax - not bad. There wasn't any proper legislation for this it was squeezed into existing laws and appears to have worked for several years.
The sticking point was always the end value and most companies recognised that to make it worthwhile should be around 5% of the value of bike and accessories. Bear in mind that you have already bought your bike after a year and that final figure was only a bodge so that this could fit into existing laws. So come the Coalition and amazing the HMR&C doesn't like this agreement and is enforcing true final values for these bike. They call it a benifit in kind and they want the tax thanks. This effectively kills the scheme - also bear in mind that you don't get a discount on your new bike and in some cases you will find that shops ask for a payment to buy your bike this way. To get round this is another bodge iwhere you have to hire YOUR bike over 4 years and that brings the value back down to around 5% again but who wants to do that.
The sticking point was always the end value and most companies recognised that to make it worthwhile should be around 5% of the value of bike and accessories. Bear in mind that you have already bought your bike after a year and that final figure was only a bodge so that this could fit into existing laws. So come the Coalition and amazing the HMR&C doesn't like this agreement and is enforcing true final values for these bike. They call it a benifit in kind and they want the tax thanks. This effectively kills the scheme - also bear in mind that you don't get a discount on your new bike and in some cases you will find that shops ask for a payment to buy your bike this way. To get round this is another bodge iwhere you have to hire YOUR bike over 4 years and that brings the value back down to around 5% again but who wants to do that.
Exactly! We need to, but the Government 'don't get it'Italy was offering a 30% discount/subsidy last year on e bikes I believe.....So why not us
The money is being channelled into electric cars and not supporting electric vehicles. They have also dropped Cycling England that funds bike ability- getting kids on bikes at a young age and training them. The industry now has to fight for funding with other interested parties....I'm having trouble seeing where the problem is myself, those figures appear quite meaningless.
Very true, they look for quick wins and looks for a return within their 4 year term.
Cycling should become more popular, I was talking to a couple of fellow cyclists on the train yesterday and both had recently started due to the cost of fuel and planned to continue cycling through winter
Harry- you are spot on. Its all about easy options, there is too much controversy to make big changes. I have a friend at the BMF who is trying to get m/cycles into bus lanes and its just meeting after meeting after meeting.
My mum and the rest of her family originate from a mountainous part of Naples, so therefore I have been 10 times. Of all those times, I can count the number of normal bicycles I've seen on exactly one hand! Never once seen an ebike or electric scooter! I think the reason for this is that the roads are far too steep and narrow. Coming down a hill is no problem, going up a poorly lit, extremely steep road slowly with vehicles taking up most of the road leaves no space. In these sorts of places everyone knows eachother, you could be standing at a bus stop and a car or a Vespa will pull up with someone you know and you'll be offered a lift. I've taken my scooter up the steepest hills I can find in Oxford (Headington Hill, Elms Rise Road, Southfield Flats road, Crescent Road, Divinity Road, the end of Barracks Lane etc) and even with pedal assistance and the motor it goes at jogging speed. My Italian relatives would never do that, as they have speed in their blood!Italy was offering a 30% discount/subsidy last year on e bikes I believe.....So why not us
But seriously, there's huge pollution and traffic problems right over Italy, and I imagine the poor sales of ebikes and bikes as well as the traffic problems have led to the government offering 30% off.
There is a lively e-bike scene in Italy, but I suspect that things there have a bit in common with Britain in this respect. However, here's their forum, their equivalent of pedelecs.co.uk:
Italian e-biking forum
And here's their page to help out English speakers:
English headings translation
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Although I've been many times, I think the last time was in 2006, and only know Naples and Rome. How did you take the Wispers over, and what part of Italy?we have been to Italy every summer for the last four years and I see a lot more e bikes there then we do here.......Our Wisper's get a lot of attention wherever we go!
Over here I've noticed more ebikes than in previous years. At one time the only ebike I saw being ridden was my own, but recently I notice a lot more people with them, and proper electric scooters as well. If just 10% of people who've stopped me in the last 8 months and asked for more info on ebikes (speed, price, range, and charge time) went on to purchase one then thats quite a few more on the road!
I have to say I really don't care about this. I'd be perfectly happy if they didn't help us at all, in return for completely ignoring us.
The thing I love about cycling (in comparison to any form of motorised or public transport) is that I'm pretty much invisible and above the law as long as I'm not completely stupid! I can jump red lights and pedestrian crossings when it's safe to do so. I can ride on short stretches of pavement when I'm not inconveniencing pedestrians and it's safe to do so. I can ride on footpaths as long as there's no irate, horse owning, land owner around. I can ride without lights as long as I pull right in and stop when a cars coming. If I choose to not wear a helmet or any safety gear, it's my problem and no-one else's. Off road cycle routes are helpful, but I could do without cycle lanes completely. Long may this relatively anarchic state continue.
The ride to work scheme is a classic "Yes Minister" bit of bureaucracy. It's designed to look good, but be so complicated that nobody will use it and so there's no gov cost or revenue loss. With VAT going to 20%, there's a really simple way of promoting cycling if that's actually desired. Just take VAT off all cycle and e-bike gear. If that's not enough then have a simple 1 year salary sacrifice scheme where you pay for it out of gross income set up as a company-employee loan so the bike never goes on the company's books. However both of those would cost the gov significant income and be far too sensible. Even though the reduced pressure on the roads and public transport along with the health benefits and hence reduced costs to the NHS mean it might actually be revenue neutral.
The thing I love about cycling (in comparison to any form of motorised or public transport) is that I'm pretty much invisible and above the law as long as I'm not completely stupid! I can jump red lights and pedestrian crossings when it's safe to do so. I can ride on short stretches of pavement when I'm not inconveniencing pedestrians and it's safe to do so. I can ride on footpaths as long as there's no irate, horse owning, land owner around. I can ride without lights as long as I pull right in and stop when a cars coming. If I choose to not wear a helmet or any safety gear, it's my problem and no-one else's. Off road cycle routes are helpful, but I could do without cycle lanes completely. Long may this relatively anarchic state continue.
The ride to work scheme is a classic "Yes Minister" bit of bureaucracy. It's designed to look good, but be so complicated that nobody will use it and so there's no gov cost or revenue loss. With VAT going to 20%, there's a really simple way of promoting cycling if that's actually desired. Just take VAT off all cycle and e-bike gear. If that's not enough then have a simple 1 year salary sacrifice scheme where you pay for it out of gross income set up as a company-employee loan so the bike never goes on the company's books. However both of those would cost the gov significant income and be far too sensible. Even though the reduced pressure on the roads and public transport along with the health benefits and hence reduced costs to the NHS mean it might actually be revenue neutral.
we have a motorhome with large garage that takes 4 bikes, have visited every year for a month the last 4 years..... We have a favourite spot at Lake Garda. So we have a week in Switzerland, 2 weeks on Lake, then 1 week touring there and back......
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