Pedelec for touring and day rides

[Graham Roberts]

I am a keen cyclist but after a total knee replacement last year find it difficult to do the same miles, which has got me thinking of a pedelec. My cycling has been local day rides and UK + European touring - mostly riding between 25 and 60 miles on roads and better quality tracks - which I’d like to get back to with the help of a pedelec. I have been riding a Dawes Audax most of the time but also have a Trek MTB and Airnimal Joey folder.

Additional information on my current bikes and general riding experience can be seen in my cycling blog here:

https://roundthebendpart1.wordpress.com/equipment/my-bikes/

Whilst speed is not a prime objective, I enjoy a good pace and use 28mm tyres on the Audax, which are probably a bit too narrow for touring but roll nicely and prefer drops – though the Trek and Airnimal are straights. For touring I carry Ortlieb Panniers and a tent and stuff on top i.e. about an extra 12Kg.

I recently visited a pedlec shop and went for a spin – I was impressed by the electric assistance provided (Bosch) but in general not by the bikes: they all seem very bulky and IMO poorly specced basic equipment (cranks, gears, brakes, cranks etc) when compared to road bikes, even though I rode a top-end Scott at +£2,500.

So the question is which pedlec might give me something similar to my current riding experience? If it is possible to make comparisons, maybe something like a Dawes Galaxy / Ridgeback Panorama etc.

Thanks.

 

[EddiePJ]

Perhaps think about converting an existing pedal bike.

Sacrilege to use either, but I've long felt that a bike like either the Kona Sutra of Genesis Croix de fer would make the perfect long distance e-bike conversion.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Nothing beats adding a quality kit to a good quality bike. You get the best of both worlds.

Then you have Stromer, Heisenberg and Herkelmann et al.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Graham,where is your home....there is no substitute for trying a good quality e-bike on test?
KudosDave

 

[Graham Roberts]

I'd rather get an off the shelf e-bike but the conversion route is a possibility. For touring it would have to be something with some grunt, probably rear wheel or axle, and reliable quality. Any suggestions that would work with a standard touring bike?

Dave - it you read my OP that's exactly what I did do and found the bikes too bulky and poor components compared to what I'm used to with a road bike. However, maybe there's something out there that could still do the job? I live outside London near Gatwick.

 

[soundwave]

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/bikes/model/road.e.1/24987/90635/

http://www.haibike.de/produkte_detail_en,72219,25562,detail.html

 

[EddiePJ]

I'll try and find a link later for a couple that have been touring on e-bike for a significant length of time. I might not have understood what you are saying correctly, but from your last reply, are you saying that you would prefer hub drive? If this is the case, then you are more than welcome to try out my Panasonic powered KTM. It isn't the style that you require, but it will give you an insight of how a quality hub drive system feels and performs.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/panasonic-hub-motor-capability-as-fitted-to-ktm-e-bikes.23287/


Here is the link. http://denis-katzer.de/en/ I've only been following them on Instagram, so don't know much info can be gained.


.


.

 

[greyfox69]

Hi Graham
I converted my Dawes Horizon tourer last year with a front hub motor from cyclotricity to see how my knee held up, all is well, so much so i have bought a Scott esub as a xmas present to myself, the point is, i didn't want to sell my beloved Dawes so i get the best of both worlds and keep a high spec bike ( in it's day) and experience ebike riding ......................go for it

 

[Graham Roberts]

Thanks everyone:

Saw the Giant road bikes but not sure they'd work for touring.

That's very kind Eddie - let me see where my thinking goes first. I'm now considering converting my Trek MTB.

Very interested in your experience with the Horizon Greyfox - I take it you have a similar knee problem? Front hub conversions seem to come with issues, how did it work for you + what power rating did you get? How does the Scott eSub compare?

 

[stevenatleven]

Hi Graham
I have an Oxygen E mate which I use for day rides and touring. It has a long wheelbase and that makes it a nice bike to ride. I have made a few upgrades, brooks saddle, schwalbe tyres, smaller chainring etc. it has a nice rack and mudguards and is well screwed together. I get about 55 miles of assistance from the 15.5 Ah battery which is fine for my day rides and touring from a centre holidays. they are on special offer at a good price just now.

 

[Benjahmin]

Hi Graham,
I ride a front hub conversion, it's an Ezee on a Carrera. You're right, there are some handling issues to get used to with a front drive. I live in Wales and manage to find some burn ya legs off climbs on the back lanes. On loose surface or muddy (read cow sh*t) surface, things can become a bit lively around the front wheel. Especially on those hairpin turns when you're on the inside line and it gets brutally steep for a few yards. I mitigate this by having a Carradice handlebar box fitted (carries my toolkit and sandwiches), but also getting up out of the saddle and over the bars.
My kit is a rotation sensor, so I get full assist as soon as it senses pedal rotation. This can also cause some wheel spin on hill starts or tight turns. Again one has to adjust riding style by use of brake cutouts at appropriate times or just being ready for it. This would not be a problem on a torque sensing setup.
The Ezee motor is rated 250W and has handelled all I've thrown at it. It's known for it's hill climbing grunt, as are the whoosh BPM's. Ezee do , I think, up to 20Ah batteries, so good range. Mine is a 14Ah and I reckon it's good for 40-45 miles, not sure because my body has never got that far. Which tells you that I'm not the cyclist you are, so I think you would easily get that.
Having done my own conversion I feel I have a lot more understanding about the bike which gives me confidence that I will find my way around should I get any faults. To be honest, from what I read on here, a lot of the higher spec ready made bikes seem overly complicated, especially the crank drives.
So now I have aroused the ire of at least half the community, I shall beat a hasty retreat.

 

[Fingers]

One of the best centre halfs to ever play at White Hart Lane.

 

[Graham Roberts]

One of the best centre halfs to ever play at White Hart Lane.

I'd like to take the credit but it wasn't me unfortunately!"

Still mulling over the way to go so keep them coming.

I watched a video last night and was slightly alarmed by two aspects of conversion on my Trek bike which is making me think of a dedicated bike instead:

1. From other comments on another bike Forum the opinion was that it was usually necessary to fit a longer bottom bracket to accommodate the pedelec sensor. Either way it's a nuisance.

2. My thumb operated gear levers are an integral part of the brake lever fitting - by fitting pedelec operated brakes I think I'd have to adopt a new gear changing method too.

= all very messy

 

[anotherkiwi]

1. From other comments on another bike Forum the opinion was that it was usually necessary to fit a longer bottom bracket to accommodate the pedelec sensor. Either way it's a nuisance.

2. My thumb operated gear levers are an integral part of the brake lever fitting - by fitting pedelec operated brakes I think I'd have to adopt a new gear changing method too.

= all very messy

1. You need about 8 mm gap on one side. Behind the chainwheel is the most discreet. It will almost always fit on the left hand side.

2. If you are using a modern hub kit you don't need brake switches. If you insist on having one on the rear brake you can use a hidden wire brake detector switch instead of the hideous brake levers that come with most kits.

2 messy problems solved, any more?

 

[stevenatleven]

You said keep them coming so here is my take
The problem in a nutshell Graham is, do you prefer messing with bikes or cycling them. I have a shop bought bike which has mudguards,lights,stand carrier etc I get on it and ride it and have done 2000 miles in 8 months. When I get back I clean the bike and take the battery in for charging simple.
My friend has done about the same but has 2 bikes a crank drive and a hub drive both which he built himself. They both look like a dogs breakfast to me and he is always fiddling with them. They have had breakdowns which has disrupted the touring we have done and he has spent twice as much as
me.
chose a well designed e bike and get on with your main interest which is cycling.

 

[Graham Roberts]

Thanks Steven your logic is impeccable!

I must say I like the look of the Oxygen E-Mate bike - as a matter of interest, what is it like to ride without power assistance and free wheeling e.g. any drag and how long does it take to charge? Also how about size, as there seems to be less choice with EBikes than 'normal bikes - I notice that the Oxygen is one size fits all, I'm 5' 10". I'm also interested in their upcoming S-Cross version which looks a little less bulky than the E-Mate.

 

[stevenatleven]

I am 5 11 and 100kgs. The Oxygen ergonomics are very comfortable for me.
standover ht of 79cm and long top tube suit my shape
It free wheels fine with no noticeable drag from the motor. I don,t use it without power as a rule, but out of curiosity did try a few miles when new.
it pedals like a fully laden touring bike,and you feel the weight for sure.
none of the sprightly feel of a quality 531db touring bike. However given
a little power it is transformed and becomes a joy esp when the hills loom.
When I was deciding I tried the Volt/Oxygen and Whisper, I preferred the Volt but not by much. I also tried the next price bracket up ie Scott and Kalkhoff.
Excellent quality but for me the Scott was to mountain bikey and the Kalkhoff to sit up and beg. In the end the reduced price of the Oxygen swung it for me.
If I do a fifty mile trip it takes a good 5 hours to charge the battery.
The S Cross looks good,looks like it has an integral battery which is a turn off for some. but no price as yet, the e mate is on sale at 1099 which is cheaper than I paid and at that price you should try it before you make a decision.

 

[Graham Roberts]

Thanks that's very helpful and much appreciated.

 

[anotherkiwi]

How about this one?

http://en.r-m.de/bike/roadster-touring/

21.9 kg including frame lock add a Tubus Fly (350 g.) and you are just over the 22 kg which isn't too bad with a suspension fork.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Graham,you are not far from the London Electric Bike Company in Hampton Wick....they have 40 plus e-bikes to test,maybe my Kudos Rapide or the KTM commuter bikes may meet your requirements.
They have a 4 km test ride,traffic free,in Bushy Park,part of Hampton Court Palace.
Pick a nice day,not Tuesday's,it's a nice part of the world.
Even if you choose elsewhere it's a good place to start.
KudosDave
Ps Almost all Kudos employees are Spurs supporters except 1 Arsenal,it won't affect his promotion prospects,Tom at LEBC is Chelsea,can't be perfect,hehe