Pedelecs in the snow

[Clarkey]

I am developing a pet theory that a pedelec shod with decent studded tyres might be the best thing for getting around in snow. Does anyone with direct experience agree/disagree? My thinking is; power assist for pushing through snow/slush, light enough to push when necessary, narrow enough to slip past immobile cars, legal to use cycle routes away from sliding traffic.

Would it be best to have a front hub motor (for 2 wheel drive) or whether a crank motor would be preferable so that the wheels can be swapped over easily?

I was wondering this whilst stuck on the station platform this morning pondering how I would get to work 20 miles away if the trains completely failed and the roads were totally impassable (as far as cars were concerned).

 

[Mussels]

I've commuted a couple of winters on my 905 and it has worked well. Summer tyres are useless and winter tyres seem just OK. I still slip around a lot on ice but I have mostly stayed upright and I've kept going past lines of stuck traffic, last winter my ebike seemed to be the only feasable transport into London. I find the throttle helps a lot as leg movement can send the rear wheel sideways, funnily enough most grip problems are at the rear which is easier to cope with.
I had half studded tyres last year and micro studs this year, both are disappointing in slush and wet ice but most of the time I can ride with confidence. The problem with British winters is the wide range of conditions so any tyre will be a compromise. A spare set of wheels is impractical as another set of gears will be needed to go with them, also it's easy to get caught out as bad weather comes without warning so the tyres have to stay on for 3 months.
I think a front hub motor would slip far too easily but it's probably OK in low power mode.

 

[Caph]

I've got a front hub pedelec with Schwalbe Snow Studs and it was lethal this morning. Definitely the worst day we've had in the Midlands during this cold spell. I nearly lost it on a steep downhill, ending up with both wheels and a foot sliding sideways until I hit the curb. The Snow Studs just don't cut it on extreme sheet ice. I ended up walking my bike in to work for about half the journey.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who braved it this morning with Nokian Extremes or Schwalbe Ice Spikers.

 

[Clarkey]

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who braved it this morning with Nokian Extremes or Schwalbe Ice Spikers.

I was envisaging skipping the Snow Studs and going straight to the Ice Spikers - I see that as one of the advantages of the pedelec, that you don't have to be so careful to pick a compromise between easy pedalling on tarmac and traction on ice.

Interesting the comment about leaving the studded tyres on for 3 months - I can't imagine doing that on a non-pedelec, the drag penalty would be too great.

 

[HarryB]

I've got a front hub pedelec with Schwalbe Snow Studs and it was lethal this morning. Definitely the worst day we've had in the Midlands during this cold spell. I nearly lost it on a steep downhill, ending up with both wheels and a foot sliding sideways until I hit the curb. The Snow Studs just don't cut it on extreme sheet ice. I ended up walking my bike in to work for about half the journey.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who braved it this morning with Nokian Extremes or Schwalbe Ice Spikers.

How much do you have to deflate the snow studs?

 

[Caph]

Snow Studs are 30-45psi on snow/ice and 45-65psi for normal conditions. I'm running at 35psi but I'll be dropping that to 30psi for my journey in tomorrow morning which will just as bad by all accounts.

Clarkey, you're right about pedelecs allowing you to ignore trade offs between comfort/safety and speed/effort. There's no way I'd be commuting on a full suspension MTB with 2.25" tyres (my regular tyres not the Snow Studs) without having a motor fitted! I love having the best of both worlds.

 

[Caph]

Interesting the comment about leaving the studded tyres on for 3 months - I can't imagine doing that on a non-pedelec, the drag penalty would be too great.

Could be Snow Studs. If you inflate them above 45psi the studs are lifted off the ground unless you are cornering.

 

[Mussels]

Could be Snow Studs. If you inflate them above 45psi the studs are lifted off the ground unless you are cornering.

Depends how heavy you are, my snow studs were in full contact with the ground even when fully inflated. This caused the studs to recess into the tyre and by the end of winter were pretty useless.
The snow studs were awful to use on a normal road so it's not just the effort required to consider, the Continental winters are a much better ride and I think the grip is similar to the snow studs apart from in slush when the contis aquaplane easily (as the Marathon winters will). Nokian extreme and Marathon winters should grip better on ice but all the tyres have a downside.

 

[Andrew harvey]

Not missed a day at work yet and I've only used the car once, only then because I had to get some plasterboard for the shop.
Last week I took the fun route home, single track road, that most cars had been avoiding, meaning packed snow and not the mearest hint of slush. Thank heavens for a front hub motor. Using the throttle gently it wasn't a problem even on the climbs, with pedal power alone the back wheel was slipping and sliding at every stroke.

So from experience it has to be said, contradicting conventional wisdom, in slippery conditions the front hub wins,

 

[flecc]

with pedal power alone the back wheel was slipping and sliding at every stroke.

So from experience it has to be said, contradicting conventional wisdom, in slippery conditions the front hub wins,

The words "at every stroke" reveal why the back wheel was slipping, the sudden application of power in pulses was breaking the limited adhesion. A rear hub motor would be applying it's power in a much better fashion for the conditions, but of course added pedalling would still break the adhesion.

Your experience is probably better expressed as two wheel drive winning over one wheel drive though, which I think is to be expected.
.

 

[Mussels]

So from experience it has to be said, contradicting conventional wisdom, in slippery conditions the front hub wins,

That's good to hear as I'm quite possibly going to switch from a rear hub to a front one before next winter. Losing traction at the front is far more serious than losing it at the back so I'm glad you haven't had trouble with it.

 

[daniel.weck]

Cheap simple mod:

Reminder of a related discussion thread:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/5204-winter-tyres.html?highlight=snow+studs+tyre#post66066

 

[Mussels]

Cheap simple mod:

Reminder of a related discussion thread:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/5204-winter-tyres.html?highlight=snow+studs+tyre#post66066

I don't see how that will stop you falling off on smooth wet ice as the chains will just slide across it, good luck though and let us know how it goes.
Next year I think I'll get general winter tyres like the Contis I have now plus Ice Spiker tyres to use for the few bad weeks. The bonus is if I buy all that winter gear we are guaranteed to have a mild winter.

 

[daniel.weck]

... good luck though and let us know how it goes.

Oh, I should have been more verbose: I'm not using this technique, in fact I'm not actually riding on the snow at all

I just thought it was worth mentioning here. Once thing to remember is that this (reversible) modification effectively renders rim brakes downright dangerous (i.e. removing the pads and loosening the jaw/clamp is necessary). Not a problem with disc brakes though.

Cheers, Dan

 

[eddieo]

I don't see how that will stop you falling off on smooth wet ice as the chains will just slide across it, good luck though and let us know how it goes.
Next year I think I'll get general winter tyres like the Contis I have now plus Ice Spiker tyres to use for the few bad weeks. The bonus is if I buy all that winter gear we are guaranteed to have a mild winter.

what do you mean next year....snow due tonight/tomorrow isn't it?

 

[Mussels]

what do you mean next year....snow due tonight/tomorrow isn't it?

The ones I have will have to do, anyway snow isn't a problem.

 

[piotrmacheta]

A bit of a late post now the snow has well and truly gone but it may come back yet. I found that the front hub was great in the snow with a really knobbly 2.3 wide tyre. Sure the wheel spins if you give it too much but the throttle is very controllable.