Radio 4 Join the Bike Helmet Debate

[Caph]

Radio 4 1.30pm today. I've got no other details, I just caught part of a trailer this morning. I've no idea how in depth it will be.

I guess it will be available on iPlayer later.

 

[allen-uk]

I know you weren't intending to start a Helmet Debate, but I'll get my twopenny worth in early: I didn't wear a helmet for years on the basis that car drivers were even MORE cavalier when encountering helmeted riders for some odd reason.

What convinced me to wear a helmet was the statistic that A&E staff who ride bikes also, as a rule, wear helmets. I suspected a link.

Radio 4 1.30 is 'More or Less', I believe, which does sometimes investigate statistics, so I'll listen out for it.


Allen.

 

[thunderblue]

I've always worn one - I used to work with kids and teenagers with brain injuries, so it always made sense to me. Although my understanding of the latest research is that car drivers tend to give more space to cyclists without helmets - although if you cycle according to the guidance in the new cycling standards this is less of a problem. Of course, a helmet probably only protects against minor knocks.

 

[HittheroadJ]

I started wearing a helmet after a colleague stumbled into work who had just been hit from the side by a taxi (he, fortunately, saw it coming at the last moment and leaned forward raising his legs). His helmet had split in two places when he hit the front screen.

The fact that I had become a father not that long before this happened may have changed my outlook on the subject too.

 

[flecc]

Just to balance all the above, I don't wear one. For the majority of my 74 years there were no cycle helmets anyway, and for much of my life not even motorcycle helmets available.

Accordingly I rode motorbikes without a helmet for 21 years, just as the US of A has always done, and I've been riding pushbikes for 64 years without one. I can't be bothered to change that now as I don't like hats of any kind.
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[Caph]

Quite a good little broadcast I thought. It covered most of the important points in an informed way. I particularly liked the point about him wearing a ladies wig as part of his study!

Interestingly, there was no point made that hasn't already been made on this board. I guess we're quite an informed lot!

 

[flecc]

Quite a good little broadcast I thought. It covered most of the important points in an informed way. I particularly liked the point about him wearing a ladies wig as part of his study!

I must listen to this on i-player since it sounds like this is the same chap who wrote the A to B article on the same study subject long ago.
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[HarryB]

I must listen to this on i-player since it sounds like this is the same chap who wrote the A to B article on the same study subject long ago.
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The presenter Tim Harford does indeed interview the guy who did the A to B wig study. Not a bad programme as he points out there is really no statistics that prove helmet wearing is safer or not. I suppose our forum comes to the same conclusion on the numerous times it discusses this topic!

 

[lemmy]

As a matter of pure logic, the vast majority of head injuries occur in the home and to pedestrians. So the same question of whether to wear a helmet or not should be discussed in these contents as well.

I always wonder why cycles are singled out for the discussion.

I heard the piece on Radio 4 - no new points because there is no new research and it was refreshing to hear people admitting that no one knew. I get so fed up with people who can't accept sometimes that we do not know everything and that belief is not the same as knowledge.

 

[flecc]

- - - belief is not the same as knowledge.

Leading to the point that knowledge is so often based on belief.
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[allen-uk]

Leading to the point that knowledge is so often based on belief.
.

Belief is indeed behind much 'knowledge'. But I still think that A&E cycling staff wearing helmets is a pointer towards informed choice. Another factor is the great change in the quantity and nature of other road traffic in the past 50 years. My old man rode his bike in Romford for many years wearing only a cloth cap for 'protection'; I wish I could be as confident in other road users.


Allen.

 

[Barry Heaven]

A summary of the item here: BBC News - Cycle helmets - a hard case to crack

Perhaps the ideal would be to wear a helmet but disguised so it can't be seen by drivers, plus a "lollipop stick" as mentioned in one of the comments.

 

[Scimitar]

I caught the part of the programme dealing with helmets, this afternoon. For me, it's a no-brainer - I was wearing crash hats long before they were compulsory on motorbikes and the only times I've been knocked off my motorbikes and sustained helmet damage that would have left my head seriously injured in the absence of a helmet have all been at sub-30mph speeds. The two most serious helmet-damaging incidents were in traffic filtering and happened at 15~20mph.
Case proven, as far as I'm concerned.
I'd like to add one thing: I'd hate to see it made compulsory, for there are many, many short journeys that are perfectly safe to make helmetless - this should be and should always remain, a matter of personal choice.

 

[andrewgardner]

I wear a helmit. They are very light not much heavier than a wooly hat unlike a motorcycle helmit.
Gloves are also a must skined hands are nasty.
It's a nobrainer or it might be if you don't wear one!.

 

[timidtom]

I know the risks. I'm 74 - old enough to be stupid. In my youth I rode an ex-WD BSA 250. No helmet, briar pipe clamped between teeth. Bike smoked more than the pipe. I wore a Deerstalker hat to complete the pose. I may start wearing a cycle helmet now if it's the only way to get a rear-view mirror. I'm not going to start now to tell people which hat to wear or which god to worship.
Happy biking and may the e-wind be ever at your back,

 

[Orraman]

I cut expanded polystyrene (EPS) and expanded polypropylene (EPP) to make electric model aircraft.
EPS, the insulation material in fridges, shatters on impact and transmits shock to the radio gear.
EPP, the impact resisting material inside car bumpers, absorbs shock loading and protects the delicate bits.

What is your helmet made of?

EPS is so many times cheaper.

Dave

 

[Mussels]

I cut expanded polystyrene (EPS) and expanded polypropylene (EPP) to make electric model aircraft.
EPS, the insulation material in fridges, shatters on impact and transmits shock to the radio gear.
EPP, the impact resisting material inside car bumpers, absorbs shock loading and protects the delicate bits.

What is your helmet made of?

EPS is so many times cheaper.

Dave

Eps and epp have different compression characteristics, given that bumpers and helmets are designed for different impact levels it's not surprising that they require different materials. If eps doesn't compress enough in the most likely impact then it won't protect very well. In motorcycle helmet tests Snell is touted as the best standard, Snell is designed for preserving life at all costs and a lower speed impact can lead to brain injury where a BS helmet would have prevented it. That same BS helmet may have not saved the life in the higher speed impact, it's a balance between preserving life and preserving quality of life and there is no single correct answer.
Eps is good at protecting objects weighing a few kg in falls of a few feet so it's not a bad choice just because it's cheap. I've not looked up the figures for both so I might be wrong but I don't think I am.

 

[allen-uk]

What is your helmet made of?

EPS is so many times cheaper.

Dave

How can we tell? (If, that is, looking inside the helmet doesn't reveal an EPP or EPS (or for that matter SNELL) label).

Expensive things are often made out of cheap materials, so that's no guide in itself...


A

 

[Mussels]

How can we tell? (If, that is, looking inside the helmet doesn't reveal an EPP or EPS (or for that matter SNELL) label).

Expensive things are often made out of cheap materials, so that's no guide in itself...


A

In my previous post I didn't mention the biggest problem with helmets and that's getting it to stay on when you crash, it's quite a shock how bendy heads can be. I notice many cycle hemets are poor and will come off easily so in this case I went with Snell as they define fitting standards. The only Snell helmets I know of are Specialized and there is a big improvement over other helmets I've seen, even on the cheap ones.

 

[allen-uk]

Mussels:

your comments are pointing up a problem, which is how the hopeful layman (me) is to choose a helmet. Price doesn't seem to enter into it: many helmets that sell for silly prices are 'designer' goods, with the price not reflecting the efficacy of the product.

I've had a look at the 'Which?' site which is often helpful, but they haven't done helmets yet.

So are there any standards to go by, or objective assessments?

Allen.