Replacing a battery with integrated controller

[Matt Jones]

Hi,
My Battery has the controller integrated with the battery mount. I have tried to source a like for like replacement battery but no luck, the manufacturer has told me to try again after "peak ebike season" whatever that means.

Anyway, fortunately my current one is fine, but I'd like a second for range purposes,. obviously this is not going to be possible with the OEM battery, so I have to look elsewhere.

What would you do? The problem is, NCM have done a great job with combination of internal routing and the build quality/cable lengths that you can barely see any cables unless the bike is upside down, and even then, they are all flush to the BB shell, so I'd really like to keep this controller, and as close as possible to where it is currently housed.

Does anyone have and bright ideas?

 

[Andy-Mat]

Hi,
My Battery has the controller integrated with the battery mount. I have tried to source a like for like replacement battery but no luck, the manufacturer has told me to try again after "peak ebike season" whatever that means.

Anyway, fortunately my current one is fine, but I'd like a second for range purposes,. obviously this is not going to be possible with the OEM battery, so I have to look elsewhere.

What would you do? The problem is, NCM have done a great job with combination of internal routing and the build quality/cable lengths that you can barely see any cables unless the bike is upside down, and even then, they are all flush to the BB shell, so I'd really like to keep this controller, and as close as possible to where it is currently housed.

Does anyone have and bright ideas?

There are companies that "re-build" bike batteries for a price.
There are people who with some good basic understanding of what is needed, have re-built their own batteries, and placed Videos of the work on YouTube.
Though unless you have some serious knowledge and understanding of what to do, I would recommend you NOT to attempt something that is basically similar to letting children play with matches and dynamite, if you are not correctly trained! There are plenty of videos showing what can happen to Li-ion batteries when abused, like this one:-

Reminder, if a battery catches fire, you need to:-
SUBMERSE THE WHOLE BIKE FOR AROUND AN HOUR IN WATER! As its not easily extinguished, or you simply cool it for an hour (like this Guy) or more to stop it setting fire to your house/garden/car.....
There are several people here on Pedelec that have had batteries re-built by companies, some good, some not.
Best of luck
Andy
PS. Burning Battery fumes are poisonous!

 

[Nealh]

He doesn't want a re build/re cell but another one to extend range.

Oxydrive UK used to sell the same kits but was few years ago since they stopped selling them. One could try emailing/phoning the Boss Andrew to see if any old unsold stock remains at H7 Engineering who were the parent company.
If by off chance an old duff battery can be found then it can be re celled.

I liked the case design and fit of them and have two empty ones which one day will be re purposed for 48v.

 

[vfr400]

Where do you live?
What voltage is the battery?

 

[Matt Jones]

Thanks for the replies. Yes that's right, I am not looking to re-cell this one (currently) it's doing fine, but I'd like a second battery, and also a plan for what I'd do if this one did die, at which point that might be an option, perhaps my only one!

Where do you live?
What voltage is the battery?

I'm in Herne Bay, Kent. It's 36v/13ah

A "bodge" approach I was pondering was to add a rack battery, and somehow fashion a connector with the same discharge socket at my battery and run a cable from the rack to the mount ... Then when #1 runs out, I could just take it out and chuck it in the rack bag, plug #2 in and carry on. Only trouble is this isn't going to be the most waterproof or robust connection.
Plus I think it's a proprietary Das-Kit plug?

 

[Matt Jones]

Here's the part ..

 

[vfr400]

Thanks for the replies. Yes that's right, I am not looking to re-cell this one (currently) it's doing fine, but I'd like a second battery, and also a plan for what I'd do if this one did die, at which point that might be an option, perhaps my only one!



I'm in Herne Bay, Kent. It's 36v/13ah

A "bodge" approach I was pondering was to add a rack battery, and somehow fashion a connector with the same discharge socket at my battery and run a cable from the rack to the mount ... Then when #1 runs out, I could just take it out and chuck it in the rack bag, plug #2 in and carry on. Only trouble is this isn't going to be the most waterproof or robust connection.
Plus I think it's a proprietary Das-Kit plug?

It's a shame you're so far away because I have one of those batteries, but I don't want to post it. If you come to Telford, let me know.

There was a problem on earlier versions of those bikes, where the connector terminals burned, which caused intermittent contact. One solution was to remove them and replace them with normal DC connectors, like Deans or XT50 on short flying leads. You could join the connectors then tuck the wire into the hole in the battery as you slid the battery onto the receiver.

The connector itself is now pretty standard, and it's used on a lot of batteries. I have one somewhere, but I'm not sure if it's male or female.

 

[Matt Jones]

Thanks for the info. I have not had issues as yet (14 months or so) but will keep that in mind. The electrical system hasn’t missed a beat which is why I am loathed to change anything, everything just seems a lot more smooth and reliable than other similarly prided bikes I’ve ridden, (DIY builds, Carrera etc) and again NCM have put lot of thought into keeping everything neat… so for the £800 or so I paid for it I couldn’t be happier, and would like to keep it on the road for as long as possible.

May have to make a trip up to you if all else fails!

 

[Deleted member 16246]

I would recommend you NOT to attempt something that is basically similar to letting children play with matches and dynamite, if you are not correctly trained! There are plenty of videos showing what can happen to Li-ion batteries when abused, like this one:-

Yes if you make a silly mistake you will end up in toruble, but that guy in the video may have made one of the REALLY big mistakes. He seems to have connected two batteries in parallel, or am I wrong? It looks like he has a downtube battery - probably the new one, connected up to a rear mounted pannier frame type one with some certainly bodged wiring coming out of the pannier. If these two batteries are connected up while one - probably the old one is at a lower voltage, the higher voltage battery will very quickly dump a lot of amps into the lower one until their voltage is the same. This would obviously cause a massive temperature rise in one or both batteries if the current flow was large.

There is another horror video I saw here on this forum last week from a New York guy called Josh, I think and he showed his bike going off at his front door like a display for Standard Fireworks. He had done the same thing, but had at least taken the precaution of fitting a bridge rectifier to try and isolate them, but if the rectifier failed short circuit, which it could do, he would just have two batteries connected in parallel.

Mistakes like that are dumb and do underline your point that if you don't know anything about electrical theory and handling potentially large flows of current, you should leave well alone. It doesn't mean that no one can repair their battery though.

 

[vfr400]

Thanks for the info. I have not had issues as yet (14 months or so) but will keep that in mind. The electrical system hasn’t missed a beat which is why I am loathed to change anything, everything just seems a lot more smooth and reliable than other similarly prided bikes I’ve ridden, (DIY builds, Carrera etc) and again NCM have put lot of thought into keeping everything neat… so for the £800 or so I paid for it I couldn’t be happier, and would like to keep it on the road for as long as possible.

May have to make a trip up to you if all else fails!

They fixed the cause of the burnt contacts. I don't know what they did but it seems to be OK now, and, as I said, many bikes use those terminals in their connectors, and they don't burn.

 

[vfr400]

Here's what I have that you can have for the cost of postage if it's any good to you. I wouldn't guarantee the BMS because it was taken from a shagged battery (one cell group at zero volts), which could have had a number of causes.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Yes if you make a silly mistake you will end up in toruble, but that guy in the video may have made one of the REALLY big mistakes. He seems to have connected two batteries in parallel, or am I wrong? It looks like he has a downtube battery - probably the new one, connected up to a rear mounted pannier frame type one with some certainly bodged wiring coming out of the pannier. If these two batteries are connected up while one - probably the old one is at a lower voltage, the higher voltage battery will very quickly dump a lot of amps into the lower one until their voltage is the same. This would obviously cause a massive temperature rise in one or both batteries if the current flow was large.

There is another horror video I saw here on this forum last week from a New York guy called Josh, I think and he showed his bike going off at his front door like a display for Standard Fireworks. He had done the same thing, but had at least taken the precaution of fitting a bridge rectifier to try and isolate them, but if the rectifier failed short circuit, which it could do, he would just have two batteries connected in parallel.

Mistakes like that are dumb and do underline your point that if you don't know anything about electrical theory and handling potentially large flows of current, you should leave well alone. It doesn't mean that no one can repair their battery though.

That is my personal thinking as the most likely possible take on that YouTube video battery accident - sadly!
regards
Andy

 

[Matt Jones]

That is my personal thinking as the most likely possible take on that YouTube video battery accident - sadly!
regards
Andy

Something like this was exactly my concern, which was why my bodge idea was that only one battery could be plugged in at any one time. The only concern is that the connector on the original battery is held in place by the battery being locked in place, so wouldn’t work very well with just a cable and plug.

Here's what I have that you can have for the cost of postage if it's any good to you. I wouldn't guarantee the BMS because it was taken from a shagged battery (one cell group at zero volts), which could have had a number of causes.
View attachment 43468

Thanks mate, much appreciated. I’ll be in contact if I go this route.