Running in a new electric bike

[allen-uk]

I am a bit worried about my e-bike needing complicated and sophisticated repairs, particularly in the first few months after purchasing it (and although I have a wonderful bike shop locally, his knowledge of electrics is similar to mine, i.e. very little).

How much of a concern should I make this? For instance, I have ruled out JuicyBikes, not because they don't look 'the business' (they DO), but because London/Buxton is such a long way, certainly if my brand-new bike needs a bit of tweaking.

I wondered what experience other members had of brand new bikes, particularly Wispers or Kalkhoffs - are they prone to teething problems?


Thanks.


Allen.

 

[carpetbagger]

my Powabyke had no problems but the Agattu had gear adjustment problems after about 150 miles,usually easy to sort out via adjustment on the gear shifter but mine was slightly different but is now ok.

 

[flecc]

The electrics are generally reliable on the good makes, and the bike parts can be fixed anywhere.

Very rarely a problem crops up on the odd new bike's motor or controller, but these are almost always early occurrences and well within warranty. Obviously these are more easily dealt with when a purchase is local, but that does greatly restrict choice, so it's matter of comparing risks versus benefits.
.

 

[lemmy]

my Powabyke had no problems but the Agattu had gear adjustment problems after about 150 miles,usually easy to sort out via adjustment on the gear shifter but mine was slightly different but is now ok.

I can only speak for my Kalkhoff. The bike is a normal bike with all normal and standard components, gears, wheels and all which can be looked after by any bike shop by ignoring the electric components.

As you will see from Flecc's comprehensive information on his web site, the electric parts can really be ignored. They are an integrated unit, needing no attention and according to Flecc more or less bullet proof.

The problem is often that the LBS is Luddite and not interested in new or different business.

The gear adjustments carpetbagger mentioned would be needed on any bike as the cable beds in, electric or not, and take seconds and no technical knowledge to do. My advice, Kalkhoffs and Panasonic don't have any teething problems, so don't worry about it.

From what I gather from people here, reliability and teething problems don't seem to be an issue with hub powered motors either, on bikes from reputable makers, of course.

 

[Barry Heaven]

The electrics are generally reliable on the good makes, and the bike parts can be fixed anywhere.

Very rarely a problem crops up on the odd new bike's motor or controller, but these are almost always early occurrences and well within warranty. Obviously these are more easily dealt with when a purchase is local, but that does greatly restrict choice, so it's matter of comparing risks versus benefits.
.

That's one of the reasons I decided on a Pro Connect Flecc. There may not be a simple answer to this but how many miles do you think you can realistically expect to get out of a Panasonic unit before it has to be replaced?

 

[flecc]

That's one of the reasons I decided on a Pro Connect Flecc. There may not be a simple answer to this but how many miles do you think you can realistically expect to get out of a Panasonic unit before it has to be replaced?

A real unknown Barry. The earlier unit still runs reliably at up to 9 years old with no repairs, but it did have a couple of known weaknesses, so a few did fail earlier.

Since those weaknesses were all addressed, there's no reason why the units shouldn't last as long as the bikes, maybe 10 years of daily use or very many more of casual use.

I've had no confirmation of any failure on the newer units at up to three years of use now, but there may be one case where an output bearing has failed. That's a standard vehicle industry component and easily replaced if that does turn out to be true. If confirmed it will be faulty manufacture though since these are hugely over specified. A new unit is normally given under such circumstances. The bearing is this red sided one. but as I say, not confirmed as yet.

 

[Stumpi]

I have a Cytronex and Wisper and both had very very minor issues early on. However both companies sorted things very quickly and demonstrated their good reputations are well deserved and backed up by their actions.

I would not hesitate in buying from either of them in the future or recommending them to other people

 

[Barry Heaven]

A real unknown Barry. The earlier unit still runs reliably at up to 9 years old with no repairs, but it did have a couple of known weaknesses, so a few did fail earlier.

Since those weaknesses were all addressed, there's no reason why the units shouldn't last as long as the bikes, maybe 10 years of daily use or very many more of casual use.

I've had no confirmation of any failure on the newer units at up to three years of use now, but there may be one case where an output bearing has failed. That's a standard vehicle industry component and easily replaced if that does turn out to be true. If confirmed it will be faulty manufacture though since these are hugely over specified. A new unit is normally given under such circumstances. The bearing is this red sided one. but as I say, not confirmed as yet.

View attachment 1419

Thanks Flecc. That's very reassuring. A possible 10 years of daily use is way beyond what I thought the answer might have been.

 

[Dynamic Position]

A real unknown Barry. The earlier unit still runs reliably at up to 9 years old with no repairs, but it did have a couple of known weaknesses, so a few did fail earlier.

Since those weaknesses were all addressed, there's no reason why the units shouldn't last as long as the bikes, maybe 10 years of daily use or very many more of casual use.

[/ATTACH]

10 Years of reliability is what I hope for and should be achievable with general maintenance to overcome wear and tear. I suspect that the electric motor reliability could limit the casual use extended life. The problem not being how many hours operation the motor has had, but the degradation of the motor insulation.

 

[FrankieXu]

Hi Allen

Hi Allen,

I don't know if you agree with me..

In my opinion, many makers have focused so much on adding complicated features like cruise controls etc where what they should focus is to make the bike easier to be fixed when there is a problem.

Let's face it, electrical components of the bike are more vulnerable to damage then the mechanical parts. They should be made as easy to be fixed as possible so that you don't have to pay premium just for the retailers to fix them.

Just my opionin, that is why I believe we have designed our one model as simple as possible and as easy as possible.

City Light Mark II

Best regards
Frankie
Ps: The panasonic crank system, how much does it cost to repair them?

I am a bit worried about my e-bike needing complicated and sophisticated repairs, particularly in the first few months after purchasing it (and although I have a wonderful bike shop locally, his knowledge of electrics is similar to mine, i.e. very little).

How much of a concern should I make this? For instance, I have ruled out JuicyBikes, not because they don't look 'the business' (they DO), but because London/Buxton is such a long way, certainly if my brand-new bike needs a bit of tweaking.

I wondered what experience other members had of brand new bikes, particularly Wispers or Kalkhoffs - are they prone to teething problems?


Thanks.


Allen.

 

[flecc]

retailers to fix them.

The panasonic crank system, how much does it cost to repair them?

They aren't repairable Frankie, Panasonic supply no spares, they are just designed to last for a very long time. If one ever fails early it's replaced f.o.c. Any that fail after long use have to be replaced, €500 currently.

That said, I've been running a support site for years and have identified some repairs on the older unit that are possible and give full advice on doing that. In time, if and when the new units give any trouble, I'll do the same for them.

Flecc's Panasonic Support Site
.

 

[FrankieXu]

Hi

Hi Flecc,

Sometime I also wonder, what if the chain is out of the chain wheel, will it affect the crank system?

can it be restored?

Best regards

Frankie

They aren't repairable Frankie, Panasonic supply no spares, they are just designed to last for a very long time. If one ever fails early it's replaced f.o.c. Any that fail after long use have to be replaced, €500 currently.

That said, I've been running a support site for years and have identified some repairs on the older unit that are possible and give full advice on doing that. In time, if and when the new units give any trouble, I'll do the same for them.

Flecc's Panasonic Support Site
.

 

[Alex728]

Hi Allen,

Just my opionin, that is why I believe we have designed our one model as simple as possible and as easy as possible.

City Light Mark II

have you not got the model with the "diamond" frame any more (with the top tube?)

In the UK, unlike China and some European nations, most young men do not ride bicycles with the "step through" frame.

This kind of bicycle is seen as a bicycle for girls/women and old men!

 

[FrankieXu]

Hi Alex

Hi Alex,

Yes we had the "diamond" frame on the old electrical system which we found difficult to service. That is why we start the new electrical system with the step through frame and later launch the step over frame based on the same system, which we believe will be better value for the customers also will become accepted.

Moreover, there is a question we asked ourselves as well, What if there is an innovation on the throttle control or people prefer thumb throttle than the half throttle, does that mean people have to buy another bike to enjoy the benefit of the innovation? What if a new controller is developed and do people have to buy another bike? Wouldn't it be nice just to change and update the electrical components, after all, they use the same sensor and same control logic?

I think the step through frame is becoming unisex frame now anyway. we will stick with one model for now and make it as reliable as it can be. Hopefully people will appreciate the effort we put in and the value we try to deliver.

Best regards

Frankie

have you not got the model with the "diamond" frame any more (with the top tube?)

In the UK, unlike China and some European nations, most young men do not ride bicycles with the "step through" frame.

This kind of bicycle is seen as a bicycle for girls/women and old men!

 

[flecc]

Hi Flecc,

Sometime I also wonder, what if the chain is out of the chain wheel, will it affect the crank system?

Yes the chain, chainwheel, and motor chain sprocket are all serviceable and replaceable, it's just the unit and it's content that isn't serviced. The chainwheel is separate from the crank, the unit uses two left hand crank arms.

Here's the details on changing the motor sprocket for example.
.

 

[Alex728]

Moreover, there is a question we asked ourselves as well, What if there is an innovation on the throttle control or people prefer thumb throttle than the half throttle, does that mean people have to buy another bike to enjoy the benefit of the innovation? What if a new controller is developed and do people have to buy another bike? Wouldn't it be nice just to change and update the electrical components, after all, they use the same sensor and same control logic?

I think some other people have indeed asked just that. it would be good to be able to have a choice of components.

I'm sure many of the handlebar components for nearly all ebikes just come from Wuxing (ÎåÐdzµÒµÓÐÏÞ¹«Ë¾) anyway, but the connectors at the other end may be wired differently.

 

[FrankieXu]

Hi Flecc

Hi Flecc,

Thanks for the info! Personally big fan of the crank system, but a bit too complex for the consumers i think.

but i definitely will learn alot from your site about the system.

Yes the chain, chainwheel, and motor chain sprocket are all serviceable and replaceable, it's just the unit and it's content that isn't serviced. The chainwheel is separate from the crank, the unit uses two left hand crank arms.

Here's the details on changing the motor sprocket for example.
.

 

[FrankieXu]

Hi Alex

Hi Alex,

Yes they are from Wuxing, because none of the maker is big enough yet to have their own control unit made, which brighter ideas will become reality. But they are famous in making throttles anyway now

Best regards
Frankie
Ps: alex, just wonder what bike you have got

I think some other people have indeed asked just that. it would be good to be able to have a choice of components.

I'm sure many of the handlebar components for nearly all ebikes just come from Wuxing (ÎåÐdzµÒµÓÐÏÞ¹«Ë¾) anyway, but the connectors at the other end may be wired differently.

 

[Alex728]

Hi Alex,

Yes they are from Wuxing, because none of the maker is big enough yet to have their own control unit made, which brighter ideas will become reality. But they are famous in making throttles anyway now

Best regards
Frankie
Ps: alex, just wonder what bike you have got

two - a Powacycle Salisbury (which I keep as a backup now)

and a Wisper 905SE City (my main ebike...)

 

[allen-uk]

Hi Allen,

I don't know if you agree with me..

In my opinion, many makers have focused so much on adding complicated features...

Yes Frankie, both about electric bikes in particular and transport in general.

But... there are buts, of course.

I drove a Morris Minor for years, partly as a fashion statement ("I don't care!"), partly as I liked its simplicity. But what drove me to abandon it in favour of a 2005 Nissan were the BAD times - when it was frosty, and the Morris's almost non-existent heating system wouldn't do more than mist up every sodding window, while I sat behind the wheel freezing and hoping for a thaw; when the rain was bucketing down, and the Morris's weedy little wipers made little impact on the rain lashing across the windscreen. Times like that.

So I'm certainly not a Luddite - there are technological innovations that benefit us all.

The bike you're marketing looks fine, no frills, very good. But I'm sure many of your customers would like you to supply a nice big 14Ah battery to go with it!

If I lived a bit closer, I'd come for a test ride.


Allen.