Sparta Ion; has anyone converted one to use generic parts to avoid the software issues.

Hello, I'm in West Sussex and have a Sparta Ion (!) and a Batavus Dutch ebike. I get them serviced at Dutch Bike Shop in Littlehampton; highly recommended.

Has anyone successfully converted a Sparta Ion to use generic parts to avoid the software issues, (and not being able to easily buy parts from the EU). Thanks!

What kind of parts are you talking about ?.

What kind of parts are you talking about ?.

 

Those parts hidden in deep holes in the ground? Hiding bike parts in such deep holes is madness IMHO. He wan't even given a torch.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpDYuc3XwKQ:36

Edited May 26, 20232 yr by guerney

Do you want to remove the controller from the hub and rewire it to use an aftermarket controller and display?

 

I have now successfully converted my Sparta to use a generic Chinese controller and LCD display ( approx £35), PAS (£8), throttle (£8)and the original motor, which didn't need any modification. The only thing I couldn't use was the original battery, shame as it was a big one with loads of power left. Bike works well, but slight lumpiness as it it picks up speed which clears at about 5mph. Apart from that , I now have a Sparta ion that I can cheaply repair myself. And a spare front wheel with motor, but that's another story.

Hi. I have done the same to my 2015 sparta c3 e motion. I bought it mssing it's battery. I planned on using a 36v battery I already have, but codnt power it up. As well as a +&- it also had 4 smaller wires that were soldered onto the battery plug and connected to the controller. Because I didn't know the voltage or polarity I had to use a different controller that doesn't use hall sensors. They were different to the color and number than the new controller had. I also used the original throttle. Can anyone tell me what voltage comes out of these smaller 4 wires? Thank you. Also I am in Australia and there is no distributor here for sparta bikes.

Additional wires connecting to a battery are generally bms (battery management system) closed proprietary communication connections. While many marketing boasts are usually made about such features, they are most often used to turn off the battery power when not connected to recognised control systems, providing additional ways for the bike to 'go wrong' and stop working, and incidentally tying you into a probably overpriced replacement battery model too. - generally this is a major reason for replacing control systems..

Yes, this was the reason I couldn't use the Sparta battery in my Ion rebuild, not recognised.. My friend who is a qualified electronics engineer couldn't find any way of safely getting power out of the Sparta battery. So, I replaced the controller, display, battery and pedal sensor with generic cheap parts, using the original front wheel motor, and now successfully use the bike. It took a lot of programming but was ultimately a useful bike which I can use and cheaply repair. Let me know if you want to know how I did it, and what parts I used.

Additional wires connecting to a battery are generally bms (battery management system) closed proprietary communication connections. While many marketing boasts are usually made about such features, they are most often used to turn off the battery power when not connected to recognised control systems, providing additional ways for the bike to 'go wrong' and stop working, and incidentally tying you into a probably overpriced replacement battery model too. - generally this is a major reason for replacing control systems..

Additional wires connecting to a battery are generally bms (battery management system) closed proprietary communication connections. While many marketing boasts are usually made about such features, they are most often used to turn off the battery power when not connected to recognised control systems, providing additional ways for the bike to 'go wrong' and stop working, and incidentally tying you into a probably overpriced replacement battery model too. - generally this is a major reason for replacing control systems..

Additional wires connecting to a battery are generally bms (battery management system) closed proprietary communication connections. While many marketing boasts are usually made about such features, they are most often used to turn off the battery power when not connected to recognised control systems, providing additional ways for the bike to 'go wrong' and stop working, and incidentally tying you into a probably overpriced replacement battery model too. - generally this is a major reason for replacing control systems..

Ok,that makes perfect sense,that once you own their equipment you overpay to keep said equipment working and it doeanr interchange with other brands. Another thing they do is keep their schematics well hidden from public view. It wouldn't matter too much anyway because the controller box is totally filled with potting.

Yes, this was the reason I couldn't use the Sparta battery in my Ion rebuild, not recognised.. My friend who is a qualified electronics engineer couldn't find any way of safely getting power out of the Sparta battery. So, I replaced the controller, display, battery and pedal sensor with generic cheap parts, using the original front wheel motor, and now successfully use the bike. It took a lot of programming but was ultimately a useful bike which I can use and cheaply repair. Let me know if you want to know how I did it, and what parts I used.

 

Hi David,

I have a Sparta Ion L in great condition but with a dead battery. I would love to know which parts you used for the conversion and how you did it!

I used a KT sine wave controller (about £35), KT PAS sensor (£10) throttle (£10), lights (£20)a generic battery with rack (£300), one that I trusted from a local supplier, with Samsung cells. The KT parts all communicate with each other, and I used the original front wheel after stripping the motor to replace a £10 bearing. I found all this stuff online. A plastic box for the controller which fits on the down tube, plus molex and other connectors and molex crimping tool. Long fiddly job. I then spent some time trying different variables with the programmer. It now runs well and reliably and is future proof and repairable. Not quite as smooth as it was originally, particularly on low speed and high power setting, but I've done 1500 miles on it and it's a comfortable, well-built bike. A long project but satisfying in the end. I can attach photos if you want.

I used a KT sine wave controller (about £35), KT PAS sensor (£10) throttle (£10), lights (£20)a generic battery with rack (£300), one that I trusted from a local supplier, with Samsung cells. The KT parts all communicate with each other, and I used the original front wheel after stripping the motor to replace a £10 bearing. I found all this stuff online. A plastic box for the controller which fits on the down tube, plus molex and other connectors and molex crimping tool. Long fiddly job. I then spent some time trying different variables with the programmer. It now runs well and reliably and is future proof and repairable. Not quite as smooth as it was originally, particularly on low speed and high power setting, but I've done 1500 miles on it and it's a comfortable, well-built bike. A long project but satisfying in the end. I can attach photos if you want.

Does the motor have the standard 9-pin connector or did you have to change something?

Hi David, thank you so much for this info. If you have Photos it would be fantastic if you could share these! I have spent some time reading forums and looking at youtube videos about the conversions of these bikes. There are just so many variables and different components that is difficult to know where to start and what to pick - any detail info helps. May I ask which Model of Sparta Ion you converted? And did you get the PAS to work? All conversions I have seen just used a throttle. Thank you!

Hi David, thank you so much for this info. If you have Photos it would be fantastic if you could share these! I have spent some time reading forums and looking at youtube videos about the conversions of these bikes. There are just so many variables and different components that is difficult to know where to start and what to pick - any detail info helps. May I ask which Model of Sparta Ion you converted? And did you get the PAS to work? All conversions I have seen just used a throttle. Thank you!

Conversion should be very straight forward, though there are a few decision points.

 

Firstly, you have to look at your motor connector and motor cable. A standard one has 9 pins and is about 12 mm in diameter. If yours has anything less than 8 pins, you need a sensorless controller. If it has 8 pins, you'll need to get an additional wheel magnet speed sensor. If it has a non-standard connector, you have to look at the controller end to see what's there and whether it has the standard bullet and hall connectors.

 

Secondly, you need to look at your bottom bracket inside the chainring and between the LH pedal arm and the BB to see what sort of space there is for either an integrated pedal sensor on the left side or magnet disc type on the left or right side.

 

Thirdly, you will need a rack battery. You can get some with the receiving slide that you can bolt to a standard flat rack, but if yours has a flip up back, you can either bend it down or cut it off, Alternatively, you can chuck the whole rack and buy a rack battery with the rack. Rack batteries have a compartment at the front for a controller.

 

Lastly, you have to look at how and where you can run wires from the rack up to the handlebars for the LCD, throttle and brake wires.

 

There are a lot of different batteries and contoller sets that you can fit. Some work better than others. KT controller is not so good for sensorless motors.

 

Battery, controller and other stuff will set you back between £350 and £400. You can but some quite nice stepthrough bikes with disc brakes for £500. You can always swap over any parts from your present bike if you think they're better.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Touroll-Electric-J1-ST-Trekking/dp/B0CYZVG2SX/ref=asc_df_B0CYZVG2SX?mcid=f8d26a98f6ca3cbd9a4eb58dbea43923&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697292508376&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15164401646037629350&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9194217&hvtargid=pla-2297734047359&hvocijid=15164401646037629350-B0CYZVG2SX-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1&th=1

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008845320768.html?src=google&pdp_npi=4%40dis!GBP!980.00!449.72!!!!!%40!12000047375850763!ppc!!!&snpsid=1&snps=y&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=752-015-9270&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=_oDc8nzq&gclsrc=aw.ds&&albagn=888888&&ds_e_adid=775779886271&ds_e_matchtype=search&ds_e_device=c&ds_e_network=g&ds_e_product_group_id=2470831785564&ds_e_product_id=en1005008845320768&ds_e_product_merchant_id=5551326180&ds_e_product_country=GB&ds_e_product_language=en&ds_e_product_channel=online&ds_e_product_store_id=&ds_url_v=2&albcp=23056649161&albag=186114352779&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23056649161&gbraid=0AAAAA_eFwRC6hAo4RXyMYpNO-jIuUUTPt&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhOfLBhCCARIsAJPiopMBzO3PeCWqE0xwTkqYUiV3RZmRugMKCam09V-m3FwgtEsBtqDE_boaAlJBEALw_wcB

Edited January 28Jan 28 by saneagle

I'll send some photos later. The KT PAS works with a KT controller, others don't. You can program it as LH or RH, 6 or 12 magnets etc. I used a PAS to keep it street legal, the throttle just boosts it to level 5 if you are pedalling. All this is fairly easily programmable with a bit of trial and error. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0F6x8V0NZQ:1344

Conversion should be very straight forward, though there are a few decision points.

 

Firstly, you have to look at your motor connector and motor cable. A standard one has 9 pins and is about 12 mm in diameter. If yours has anything less than 8 pins, you need a sensorless controller. If it has 8 pins, you'll need to get an additional wheel magnet speed sensor. If it has a non-standard connector, you have to look at the controller end to see what's there and whether it has the standard bullet and hall connectors.

 

Secondly, you need to look at your bottom bracket inside the chainring and between the LH pedal arm and the BB to see what sort of space there is for either an integrated pedal sensor on the left side or magnet disc type on the left or right side.

 

Thirdly, you will need a rack battery. You can get some with the receiving slide that you can bolt to a standard flat rack, but if yours has a flip up back, you can either bend it down or cut it off, Alternatively, you can chuck the whole rack and buy a rack battery with the rack. Rack batteries have a compartment at the front for a controller.

 

Lastly, you have to look at how and where you can run wires from the rack up to the handlebars for the LCD, throttle and brake wires.

 

There are a lot of different batteries and contoller sets that you can fit. Some work better than others. KT controller is not so good for sensorless motors.

Thanks, I agree. The Sparta has Hall sensors, so I found the KT fine.

Haha, sorry, attaching photos isn't very intuitive.

Haha, sorry, attaching photos isn't very intuitive.

I have a couple of questions. Firstly, is that 48v or 36v?

 

I'm interested in the rough patch when accelerating that you mentioned. It's very unusual with sensored motors. Is your controller a square wave one, indicated by the designation number SVPR for sine wave and something with an X in it for square wave?

 

I've experienced roughness with sensorless motors, and I managed to mitigate it with the P1 setting. I'm not sure what P1 does. It's primarily used to get the speed display for motors without a speed sensor, and I'm fairly sure it's used to calculate the cut-off speed for the motor, but it definitely affects the roughness of sensorless motors. I'm not sure whethe P1 assists in calculating the timing for commutation for only them or whether it does anything for sensored ones. The controller shouldn't need anything other than the hall sensors. It might be worth trying a few random settings to see if any change your roughness.

36v sine wave with Hall sensors working correctly. (I bought a tester gizmo for about a tenner). I set P1 to 24 as the motor has 24 magnets direct drive. I probably tried different settings in the past with no effect, but I'll have another go. Many of the settings actually have no effect, even though the manual and youtube videos state that they should. I thought there was perhaps a slight incompatibility between a generic controller and non- generic motor. Also, as a direct drive, the motor is actually running slower than a geared one, and it does smooth out with speed. Does the controller work more smoothly at high motor speeds, perhaps? If I could solve this, the set up would be as good as the original more complicated set-up, with expensive torque sensor and chain tensioners.

36v sine wave with Hall sensors working correctly. (I bought a tester gizmo for about a tenner). I set P1 to 24 as the motor has 24 magnets direct drive. I probably tried different settings in the past with no effect, but I'll have another go. Many of the settings actually have no effect, even though the manual and youtube videos state that they should. I thought there was perhaps a slight incompatibility between a generic controller and non- generic motor. Also, as a direct drive, the motor is actually running slower than a geared one, and it does smooth out with speed. Does the controller work more smoothly at high motor speeds, perhaps? If I could solve this, the set up would be as good as the original more complicated set-up, with expensive torque sensor and chain tensioners.

If it's a direct drive, that's probably why it's rough. It's very small fo a direct drive.

 

Did you check the markings on the controller? They sometimes send square wave when you order sine wave.

I'll double-check, then play around with P1.

I'll double-check, then play around with P1.

This came up in my Youtube feed.