Two boys die in "ebike" accident: Cardiff riot broke out after 'police prevented parents seeing fatal crash victims', close relative says

[Cadence]

So, let's look at the evidence that's available.
Two teenagers are riding on an electrically-propelled bike designed to carry one person, on the public highway. It may or may not be steet legal, but either way no helmets are being worn.
They approach a police van and decide to turn tail and run.
The police van follows, but not chasing? No "blues and twos".
The bike appears to out-accelerate the van to such an extent that they are no longer in the same video frame.
Having out-smarted the police by going through bollards they lose control and hit a lamp post. It is obvious that the police van was therefore not in the same road at the same time as the collision.

I am sure that, in hindsight, the police would not have followed the bike, but faced with someone apparently running away, what are they supposed to do? The bike could have been stolen for all they knew. Nobody could have anticipated the tragic outcome of this. I like to think that the vast majority of coppers want to do a good job and if we can't trust them then anarchy will ultimately reign.

I would hope that any independant inquiry will also include looking into the specification of the bike, its compliance with the law and the qualification of the owner to be riding it on the highway. There have to be lessons learned by the general public, not just another police-bashing frenzy.

My heartfelt commiserations go to both familes. I cannot imagine how desperate I would feel if it was my son. I would certainly be feeling a great deal of responsibility as a parent.

 

[sjpt]

So it explains more about the police claim that their van/vehicle wasnt in the same road as the accident.

They knew of the bollards, turned so they circumnavigate them, with the intention to continue the case once they'd done so.

It is lie after lie after lie.

Yes, it explains that it is completely true that they were in a different road at the time of the accident.

Yes, they were probably following the boys (for illegal riding on an illegal machine?, and as far as I know they haven't denied that) and may well have intended to follow them further after their bollard avoiding diversion.

Not sure where the first lie was, let alone the one after and the one after that. They don't even seem to have been economical with the truth.

 

[saneagle]

Here's how my supreme intellect constructs a story that puts all the facts together into something that makes sense:

Two irresponsible teenagers ride an electric motorcycle without a licence, L-plates, insurance, MOT and registration. The police are aware of this, and they've probably seen it many times before, but are not allowed to chase them when they're not wearing helmets, which the riders know. The police encounter the motorcycle, which immediately does a 180 and runs. They know that they can't chase, so they speed to somewhere, where they have a good chance of catching them pushing the bike into a back garden, garage or whatever. They probably had a good idea of who the kids are or what families are involved. The kids are going at high speed, which is clearly at leat 30 mph in one of the videos. Somehow, the driver loses contol and goes straight into a lamppost at speed.

The police didn't do anything wrong. All the wrong is on the side of the kids, whoever enabled the crime by providing the motorbike, and those that support them in that activity.

How anybody can question whether that vehicle was a legal electric bicycle is beyond me. It doesn't even have pedals, and it has a double seat. It's a 'kin dirt bike.

Maybe it was just a case of kids being kids. Favourite uncle knows that they're always watching dirt bike racing on TV, so buys them the bike after the kid promises only to use it at an official dirt track. Kid can't resist it, so goes and gets his mate so that they can both go to the local dirt bike track to play with the bike. They see the police, panic and their lives end in tragedy. That's possible, but it could also be a case of the local drug mules use the bike to courier drugs around the area. They know that they have to face severe consequences if they're caught with said drugs, so they employ their normal tactics of running, but forgot it was bin day and there was a bin hiding behind a parked car, so when they swung up onto the pavement before going into their back garden, they had to swerve to avoid it, lost control and hit the lamppost.

Three stories. If I had to bet my life on it, I'd go with the first and stop there, even though it could include the last.

 

[saneagle]

So, let's look at the evidence that's available.
Two teenagers are riding on an electrically-propelled bike designed to carry one person,

There's no evidence of that. Sur Rons have footrests for a passenger. They're an optional extra that can be fitted to most models. All models have at least a sort of double seat. It's not clear whether passenger foot-pegs were fitted, though the passenger doesn't seem to be using them if they were.

 

[Cadence]

There's no evidence of that. Sur Rons have footrests for a passenger. They're an optional extra that can be fitted to most models. All models have at least a sort of double seat.

Fair enough. I'm not familiar with these machines, but does using one on the highway require the rider to have a licence, insurance and the wearing of a crash helmet? Does carrying a passenger require a full motorcycle licence?

 

[saneagle]

I've figured it out. Who saw the ghost in the BBC video above? It must have been the grim reaper or one of his angels come to reap some souls, and the kids just happened to be nearby. They had no chance. It wouldn't have mattered whether the police were there or not, nor would it have mattered whthere they were on that bike or not. They were doomed the moment the ghost tagged them.

 

[saneagle]

Does carrying a passenger require a full motorcycle licence?

It does now, though there was an exception in the past.

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

I've figured it out. Who saw the ghost in the BBC video above? It must have been the grim reaper or one of his angels come to reap some souls, and the kids just happened to be nearby.

Was it a badger? They jump out without warning

 

[saneagle]

Was it a badger? They jump out without warning.

I know they have strange accents in cardiff, but I never hears a badger go, "Woof woof".

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

I know they have strange accents in cardiff, but I never hears a badger go, "Woof woof".

It was feeling ruff?

 

[saneagle]

This has been a brilliant thread, though sad or the people involved in the incident. Young kids don't deserve to die. If they had been your kids, they'd probably be studying for their GCSEs instead of risking their lives. It's brought out just about every trope we get on this forum. All we need is for somebody to start arguing that they would still be alive if they had a hub-motor, which may well be true.

 

[Chris M]

There is no reason for these bikes to be illegal but that is not to say they aren't its whether they assist beyond 15.5mph.

Let’s get this right, these bikes are not illegal. They are powered vehicles and as such need to comply with the law on the use of powered vehicles on the road. That’s being registered, having insurance and a rider with the correct licence. Powered bicycles that have a 250 watt or less motor and where the power cuts out at 15mph have been granted a concession whereby they are treated as non powered vehicles That sounds quite reasonable to me. If people insist on breaking the law the concession might be removed.

 

[StuartsProjects]

The vigil looks peaceful, fancy a cycle over? You could be our man on the ground...

I declined ....... its not an area I would vist late, on my own, riding a not low cost eBike, although it was a loverly evening.

And no doubt we will be finding bits of blue plastic as rubbish for years to come.

 

[lenny]

All we need is for somebody to start arguing that they would still be alive if they had a hub-motor, which may well be true.

 

[soundwave]

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[guerney]

View attachment 51777

you get what you pay for and if some twat crashes in to me head on with no helmet on say a scooter then there dead, a guy tried to punch me in the face with my new helmet it must have broken every bone in his hand and did not leave a scratch

I'm glad I took your advice and bought one with a jawguard - even my cheapo has saved my noggin and teeth at least twice so far. Clue's in the name, they guard jaws too. Plus they look cooler than those stupid looking top hat style lids, but not mine, obviously. Kids shout requests that I do wheelies.

I declined ....... its not an area I would vist late, on my own, riding a not low cost eBike, although it was a loverly evening.

And no doubt we will be finding bits of blue plastic as rubbish for years to come.

I was hoping to see video of you busting rhymes with the homies in South Central Cardiff!

 

[soundwave]

im a monster

 

[StuartsProjects]

I was hoping to see video of you busting rhymes with the homies in South Central Cardiff!

I was this afternoon cycling around the large area of park and playing fields that runs North and West from the Castle in the centre of Cardiff, but no Video.

I was seeing how far I could get with eBrompton in no pedal mode using one of those el-Cheapo, maybe just about to catch fire, 4Ahr hoverboard batteries, it was 8.5km @ 12mph.

 

[guerney]

I was this afternoon cycling around the large area of park and playing fields that runs North and West from the Castle in the centre of Cardiff, but no Video.

I was seeing how far I could get with eBrompton in no pedal mode using one of those el-Cheapo, maybe just about to catch fire, 4Ahr hoverboard batteries, it was 8.5km @ 12mph.

That sounds great for a £50 battery - how many amps does your controller draw? I forget which controller you're using.

 

[StuartsProjects]

That sounds great for a £50 battery - how many amps does your controller draw? I forget which controller you're using.

The controller is a KT24 36SVPR rated at 7A. And yes its small, but it has enough power and weighs 168g. How much current the motor is actually drawing, I just dont know for sure, but......

8.5km = 5.3 miles. So at 12mph that would be a travel time of 0.44 of an hour. So if a 4Ahr battery lasted 0.44 hours the current used would be 9A.

I did check the controller at the end of the trip, it was hot, but touchable. You could add external heatsinks to reduce that potential problem.

Of course no pedal mode is a bit extreme, in normal pedal assist mode the controller only gets warm on steeper stuff.

The reason I tested it in no pedal mode, is that it is a repeatable standard for testing batteries. The course is flat and in PAS mode 3, the speed on max throttle limits to 12mph, or very close. In pedal mode you can never be sure how much you are aiding the setup and thus reducing battery current.