Urban Mover - Not moving

[billadie]

Woe 2 - for those who have read my previous thread. My trusty Urban Mover UM24. The motor has stopped working. Battery fine, battery status shown as full on handlebar power meter. Just nothing happening with motor.

It is a rear wheel hub motor, 26V with VPAC torque sensor.

Last time I used it, it ran fine. I gave it a clean, lubricated the chain etc. then parked it undercover for a week. When I came to use it, no action. Could lubricant (Bikehut Cycle Lubricant) have affected the sensor?

Any ideas on how to troubleshoot the problem very welcome.

Cheers

Bill

 

[oigoi]

Does the bike have a throttle? If it is pedelec only the sensor on the cranks might have moved out of position, or it could be one of the switches in your brake levers playing up

 

[billadie]

Thanks for that oigoi.

No throttle.
I will have a look at the sensor, but I am not sure where it should be in the firsr place
Hadn't thought about the brakes. Is there any sure way of checking the switch?

Bill

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I think Oigoi's thinking of the magnet ring type sensor, which is different to yours - assuming that you have the torque sensor version.
.
Did you use water around the torque sensor?

It might be worth having a look in the controller compartment to see if there's any clues there, and you can check all the connectors while your there. If that doesn't work, figure out which is/are the brake connector/s and disconnect them to see if it makes a difference.

 

[oigoi]

Oh hang on yours has got a torque sensor so I think that will do the job of detecting the pressure on the pedals. Unless something is up with the torquer sensor or the wiring to it - have you checked any connections
The brake switches you could try putting the brakes on and off a few times, beyond that its start dismantling the wiring and trying either bypassing the brake switches or testing them with a multimeter

 

[billadie]

Eventually got round to checking this bike.

1. Good connections from battery to controller 28v
2. Opened controller. No fuses so OK there.
3. All connections in/out controller checked and seem fine.
4. Brake switches. Disconnected these. Made no difference. should I have shorted these or left open?

5. There are 3 thick wire and 5 thin wires from the controller to the motor. I assume that 2 of the thick wires carry current - don't know what the third does. No voltage on any combination of 2 from 3.

6. There is a 3 wire connector (Red, Blue, Black) from controller to torque sensor. Disconnecting this I get (on the controller end) 12.1V Red/Blue, 12.5V Red/Black & 0V Blue/Black.

My gut feeling is that the torque sensor is the problem, but I really don't know how it works or what to do.

Assuming I am right to disconnect the brake switches, rather than short them, is there anyway i can power the motor - for test purposes - without the sensor. bear in mind that the crank need several turns before the motor cuts in.

Any help/guidance/sympathy would be much appreciated.

Bill

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The torque sensor is a 12v device (supply) with 5v output, so the wires are Red (12v), black (0v), blue (signal 0 - 5v). To test it, you need to give it a 12v supply and then put your meter between blue and black, then apply a load to the crank to see if it gives any output. If you're lucky, you might be able to get your voltmeter probes in the back of the connector while it's connected and powered.

Your motor is a three-phase sensored one, so the three thick wires are the phase wires and the other five for the hall sensors (red and black 5v supply, green,blue,yellow signal wires).

It works with the brake switches disconnected. When the switches are on, the power's cut.

The only problem I can think of is that if water got in, it could've shorted 5v to 12v, which might've damaged something. I've never taken one apart, so I don't know what's inside. If it turns out faulty, it might be repairable or you can get them from BMSBattery for about £80 to £100. It only comes with the controller, which is why it's expensive. It might be cheaper from UM if they have one.

 

[hech]

I was working on a UM24 the other day, swapped the old NMH battery for 36v lithium. The controller is capable of running at 24/36/48v but also had a throttle connection and this was fitted. It was just an ordinary 3 wire throttle but oddly took two or three seconds to get the power down. So if you got a cheap throttle it would overide your torque sensor and determine if that is in fact the problem.

 

[billadie]

Thanks for the quick and informative response.


The torque sensor is a 12v device (supply) with 5v output, so the wires are Red (12v), black (0v), blue (signal 0 - 5v). To test it, you need to give it a 12v supply and then put your meter between blue and black, then apply a load to the crank to see if it gives any output. If you're lucky, you might be able to get your voltmeter probes in the back of the connector while it's connected and powered.

Yes, I managed to get a reading whilst connected. On the blue/black reading a stop was 0.5V. When pedal rotated output rose with rotation speed to 3.4V. Does this mean the sensor is working as it should?

Thanks again

Bill

 

[billadie]

I was working on a UM24 the other day, swapped the old NMH battery for 36v lithium. The controller is capable of running at 24/36/48v but also had a throttle connection and this was fitted. It was just an ordinary 3 wire throttle but oddly took two or three seconds to get the power down. So if you got a cheap throttle it would overide your torque sensor and determine if that is in fact the problem.

Thanks Hech

I might try that. This bike already has a lithium battery and is quite nice for poottling round the back alleys.

Bill

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Thanks for the quick and informative response.

Yes, I managed to get a reading whilst connected. On the blue/black reading a stop was 0.5V. When pedal rotated output rose with rotation speed to 3.4V. Does this mean the sensor is working as it should?

Thanks again

Bill

Based on that, I'd say it's OK.

You now need to test the hall sensors in the motor. You need to put your probes on the red and black (to confirm approx 5v, then on the black and each of the other three in turn whilst you rotate the wheel backwards. you should get 3v to 5v pulses as you rotate the wheel. It's easier if you get help from a friend.

 

[billadie]

Based on that, I'd say it's OK.

You now need to test the hall sensors in the motor. You need to put your probes on the red and black (to confirm approx 5v, then on the black and each of the other three in turn whilst you rotate the wheel backwards. you should get 3v to 5v pulses as you rotate the wheel. It's easier if you get help from a friend.

Hi d8veh

Black/Red 4.7V

Black/all others instant response on rotating wheelbackwards. Either drop from 4.6 to 2.5 V or increase from 0V to 3V approx. If i continue rotating voltage with either drop to 0V and then climb again or if starting at 0 will rise.

Again thanks for your help. I will put the bike away now but if you have any further suggestions I would be pleased to receive them.

Bill

 

[Deleted member 4366]

They should all go on and off as you rotate the wheel, so that they go to the same voltage when on, and down to 0v when off.Turn the wheel slowly and wait 'til your meter stabilises after each change from on to off before noting the voltages. If you can, check on the controller side of the connector in case of a connection fault. If faulty, check the other side of the connector to eliminate any connection fault.

 

[billadie]

Hi again.

You are correct. Checked again and all combinations change from 4.9 to 0V as wheel turns. Measured on the motor side of the connection.

Bill

 

[hech]

Ok, so your controller is getting all the right signals, either the brake connections are shorting or the Klingons have targeted your controller with a tractor beam?

 

[billadie]

"or the Klingons have targeted your controller with a tractor beam?"

Today, that wouldn't surprise me at all. Probably changed the numbers on my lottery ticket too.

As for the brake switches, I have disconnected them, so should not be a problem.

 

[OldBob1]

Do not know the bike in question but does it have an isolator or on/off switch that feeds the controller?

Bob

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Good point Bob.

It might help if we can get a photo that shows all the connections to the controller spread out so that we can see what they are. Use an image host like Photobucket, so that we can see full detail.

One other thing: Just to eliminate it as a possibility. Is there a connector on the motor wire hidden behind the chain-stay?

 

[hech]

Am 'fraid yer motors f***laberghasted mate, best inform Star Fleet Command immediately, eh!

 

[billadie]

Do not know the bike in question but does it have an isolator or on/off switch that feeds the controller?

Bob

No, just a switch on the battery.