"Voyager"

[Blew it]

Sorted!

The issue with the spongy brakes on the 905 has now been resolved.

This problem has attracted a lot of interest from various parties, all of whom failed to identify the real source of the excessive lever travel in the brake system. It isn't the cables or the promax calipers.

The source is in the brake lever body clamps... they're PLASTIC!.

I set up a spare pair of handlebars fitted with diecast alloy bodied levers, the same as fitted to the Mistral and many other machines. With the 905's cables transferred to them the improvement was enormous....the brakes now have the same firm positive feel of other machines. I expect the reasoning behind using plastic body clamps was in saving a little weight. Those of you who have 905's can check this for youself, watch the lever body as you gently squeeze the lever, even when taking up the brake return spring pressure the body will start to follow the lever. The more firmly you squeeze the lever, the further the body will attempt to follow. This is the source of the spongy brakes.

A similar test carried out on three other machines fitted with diecast lever bodies revealed no such movement, being of metal construction they are much more rigid.

A pair of metal bodied levers rescued from a recently dismantled machine will now be fitted to the 905. To save unravelling the spiral trunking the existing micro switches will be used, this will mean unsoldering the cable to allow removal of the switch and then re-soldering once threaded through the new lever bodies.

There is one other source of flexing in the rear brake system. The reactionary force of the brake pads against the rim cause the seatstays to move outward. There is nothing that can be done to rectify this.....It's the price you pay for using lightweight alloy construction methods. The seatstay cross bracing behind the battery is already massive, even if made larger it's unlikely it would have any worthwhile effect.

So, if your lucky enough to have an old steel framed electric full susser hanging about, whip the brake levers off it and stick 'em on your 905.....you'll be amazed at the difference it makes.

All the best

Bob

 

[frank9755]

Well done, Bob, for getting to the bottom of it. I think I remember reading a post by David a while back saying that they had changed the levers to improve the brakes, so I believe you are right.

 

[flecc]

Well spotted Bob.

In fact the sponginess may well have been deliberate originally rather than just weight saving, since in the last decade thats become an increasingly common feature in bike design. 50cycles technical man Lloyd remarked recently on the spring inserts on some brake cables that add the same spongy delay, and the otherwise much loved Giant Lafree Twist had these horrible things.

The purpose of the sponginess is to protect the less skilled from the effects of braking too suddenly and forcefully, panic braking in other words, which can cause skids and loss of control, but for skilled cyclists it's a feature widely disliked.

I remember one member with their new e-bike who did panic brake on the first ride attempt and came a cropper as a result. Since that bike model didn't have soft acting brakes, it illustrated that the spongy delay is useful for some more nervous individuals.
.

 

[Blew it]

Ah!, I hadn't thought of that Flecc, I must admit the brakes were adequate for the job, easily locking the rear wheel on dry tarmac if not careful....not hard to do with only 77 Kgs to hold it down!.

There is another reason for having a rethink before replacing them, I'll loose the mounting for my underslung Mirracle mirror, this is using the molded-in holes in the lever bodies provided for long arm mirror mounting.

All this reminds me a little of the Morris Marina I drove many years ago....that used bungee cords instead of steering arms.

All the best Flecc

Bob

 

[720 Cycles]

Voyager - Turbo version

Simon has done a few adjustments on the Voyager and reached 22 mph on throttle only.

We have a bit more testing to do and will keep you posted as to when or if we are releasing it for sale

Obviously for off road use only

 

[wotwozere]

Hi


Thats great

thx

bob

 

[stonefish]

that sounds great dal....
just what the bike needed to bring it on par with a derestricted whisper as mentioned earlier...defo interested just to get you to your destination that little bit quicker in this cold weather..
well my bike so far has done over 350 miles with no problems other than 1 puncture...and 1 flat battery...my fault because i forgot to keep the battery topped up...was gutted because i actually had to pedal the last mile..keep up the good work lads and keep us informed of any mods that can be done to improve an already great bike..

jeff

ps..have noticed one spare wire plug comming out of the control module with 2 wires...any idea what its for...it wouldnt be for rear lights before i fit battery ones would it????

 

[Cyclezee]

Bob,

Any more news on the Voyager? How is going?

J hn

 

[Blew it]

Voyager is just fine, It will shortly return to the spotlight with some longer rides to establish what kind of range can be expected.

After a little more thought, I decided to go ahead with changing the 905's brake lever assemblies for the metal bodied type....I just couldn't live with the spongy brakes anymore. The ongoing problem with the 905's headraces was found to be a stray ball bearing jammed between the steerer and head tube. This ball had not escaped from either of the cages, so it must have been accidentally introduced during assembly. The steering is now very smooth and shake free.

The "workshop" (warm kitchen) is currently occupied by the Mistral. The upgrade to the road gearing reported on another thread. This leaves the making of a bash plate to protect the pedelec sensor when riding rural trails. Once this is completed I will return my attention to Voyager, the plan being to write a full review when a few hundred miles have been covered. It's very likely the road gearing on this machine will also be uprated. It clearly continues to provide some assistance up to 18 mph, but the cadence is uncomfortably high at that speed.

All the best

Bob

 

[dazzie]

I'll be very interested to hear about the changes you're making to the mistral's gearing Bob. I'm considering doing the same (I broke the chain guard and now the frankly quite nasty looking front sprocket is begging to be changed).

I've had to adjust the brakes on the mistral four or five times each end so far - very stretchy cables indeed. 65 or 70 miles in the last three days and counting!

Daz

 

[720 Cycles]

Simons day out...Voyager Turbo

20.03 MILE ROUND TRIP ON RUSH“ROAD” PROTOTYPE

The sun was shining today ( I know its novel), but a 12mph south westerly was blowing, I thought this might be as good a day as any we are going to get in January for a ride out, and test our new baby. A standard bike myself and Darren have been marketing since November, but now we have christened the “Road”, and have altered with substitution of parts to achieve higher speeds, hopefully without a great cost to range. So I charged up the “Road” bikes battery and a spare in case I was caught out, which I strapped to the rear rack.

I took a route which would mainly take me down single track roads out to a village about 8.5 miles out . I set the saddle to full height as I have a 33” inside leg and I like to get my leg something like straight on the downward pedal thrust, this does have its drawback, in that you are up there like a sail or you are reaching right down for the bars. To achieve a happy compromise I had fitted a head stem lifter and put rings in to give about 2” of lift at the grips.

I switched on and pressed the pedal, which nearly immediately brought a nice growl from the motor, and we (bike and me) started to thrust forward combined with steady pedalling and gear changes until we were in top gear. Motor noise was now imperceptible, and a glance down at the speedo showed we were bowling along at 18+ mph, so I steadied the pressure on the pedals and the bike settled down to cruise at this speed. I soon noticed the bike would surge if pressure was not steady throughout the rotation, the sensor thinking I wanted more power, but if I pedalled consistently and steadily, we continued progress outward bound at 18mph , some into wind (around 15%) at about 16mph, and my destination was reached in a very enjoyable just under half hour.

I turned around for the return journey with still full five lights on the battery power indicator on the bars. On coming home I found I was facing the wind more often, perhaps 25% of the time full into wind, but I still managed a steady 15-16mph, I could tell this was really using some power, and the battery indicator on the bars had dropped one light of the five. I did take the odd break and let the bike take me on the throttle, and although I could reach 22mph where the wind was off me, 16 mph seemed a reasonable rate on around at half throttle. I took a detour to another quiet road village to extend journey and finally arrived back in my village with over 20 miles clocked and three lights still showing on battery bar indicator when stationary, and one light of three showing on battery itself. The bike was still willing and would give a good surge still from throttle when asked even at 16mph. Judging from this ride and one before, I feel 25 mile range in favourable conditions is not unreasonable, and given the average speeds attained quite outstanding carrying a 6kg spare battery, (11.5 stone me). And far more reasonable personal transport than the bikes the EU laws allow as a “cycle” than at present.

Its time we all lobbied our MEPs’ (I have), to get some sensible laws in place to really tempt people out of their cars! I think I will challenge a willing MEP to try both standard and modified versions to get an opinion or even better, action, hopefully. Given that many cyclist are killed by bad roads and bad motorist and rarely damage other road users we should have the bikes to make reasonable progress. Racing bikes can achieve 30 mph or more, why can’t we have at least 20 mph allowable under power. Here is a question I have just thought of:-

How many of our EU law makers have ridden an electric bike before these laws were passed, or even to date?. We should ask them.

NOTE: I don’t recommend any body should exhaust these batteries fully, far better to use top half of batteries capacity, for long battery life and keep topped up.

Bike: Prototype RUSH “ROAD” bike - Voyager
Battery: Phylion Lith-Ion, 36 V 10 A
Motor: Bafang 250 watt rear hub geared.
Average speed: 16 mph approx
Top Speed: 25 mph
Range: Probably 25 miles.

 

[flecc]

Its time we all lobbied our MEPs’ (I have), to get some sensible laws in place to really tempt people out of their cars! I think I will challenge a willing MEP to try both standard and modified versions to get an opinion or even better, action, hopefully. Given that many cyclist are killed by bad roads and bad motorist and rarely damage other road users we should have the bikes to make reasonable progress. Racing bikes can achieve 30 mph or more, why can’t we have at least 20 mph allowable under power.

This subject was explored in depth in response to a journalist thinking of campaigning for the same thing. The certainty is that you will have no success, this opinion widely shared in the industry for a number of reasons. Firstly the EU law coincided with most preceding national laws, so it's not just a matter of arguing with the EU, and in fact our UK speed limit for EPACs was originally 12 mph, upped to the EU limit for harmonising purposes.

Second is the fact that provision is already made for you to do exactly what you wish, but your bike would have to have to be registered and have a rear number plate etc in the way we did with tiny petrol add-on motors in the 1950s:

This is the normal moped class of course, 30 mph etc. Individuals can get single user type approval and companies can get full type approval for these.

Since this provision exists and provides the inspection and type approval thought necessary for higher speeds, the chances of getting this without registration etc are vanishingly small.

In Germany there is a higher speed e-bike class as well, allowing 20 mph with a helmet worn and third party insurance, and under EU law we are entitled to have the same benefit. To achieve that requires the UK government to pass the necessary orders to get the class into law and allow the insurance industry to make the policies available.

That is likely to be a more worthwhile way to pursue your objective since the entitlement already exists.
.

 

[Cyclezee]

20.03 MILE ROUND TRIP ON RUSH“ROAD” PROTOTYPE

Judging from this ride and one before, I feel 25 mile range in favourable conditions is not unreasonable, and given the average speeds attained quite outstanding carrying a 6kg spare battery, (11.5 stone me).

6Kg seems quite heavy for the Phylion battery, is that correct?

J hn

 

[flecc]

6Kg seems quite heavy for the Phylion battery, is that correct?

J hn

The latest eZee 37 volt 10 Ah Phylion battery I've weighed at 4.4 kg, but others will vary very slightly by a few grammes due to odd casing and BMS differences.
.

 

[Cyclezee]

The latest eZee 37 volt 10 Ah Phylion battery I've weighed at 4.4 kg, but others will vary very slightly by a few grammes due to odd casing and BMS differences.
.

Yes Tony, my Phylion weighs 4.5 Kg, just thought an extra 1.5 Kg seemed quite a lot, if that figure of 6Kg is correct.

J hn

 

[flecc]

Yes Tony, my Phylion weighs 4.5 Kg, just thought an extra 1.5 Kg seemed quite a lot, if that figure of 6Kg is correct.

J hn

I can't believe it's right John, it would need a thick steel case to weigh that much.
.

 

[stokepa31_mk2]

I have hard of a new PHY LION version which is a bit heavier. its supposed to have longer range and handles deep drain applications better and thus giving a bit more bite. It also has enhanced sleep facility to aid cell recovery.

here it is

 

[Blew it]

Simon

Discretion being the better part of valour, I think we should continue to quietly enjoy our machines as we do now.

Providing we don't do anything that would impact on other peoples lives, then it's unlikely there would be a problem with a machine that was a little quicker than it should be.

Speaking as one who almost exclusively rides on safe cycle routes, I would never buy a machine that could not used on them

The Phylion battery fitted to voyager weighs 4.8 Kgs

All the best Simon

Bob

 

[flecc]

The Phylion battery fitted to voyager weighs 4.8 Kgs

That's more like it!
.

 

[stonefish]

well after the recent snow i can confirm that the bike can wheelspin..!!!!! still doing about 8 miles a day in snow and rain...the bike is still performing great...left outside work for 8 hours a day in rain etc.....still ok...am gonna upgrade brakes to hydralic if i can find brake levers with switches...any ideas???? i have fitted new front forks to give a smoother ride and better look..and have been off road without the battery pack...as the strong frame can handle a bit of abuse...it stood up well with my mates kona bikes etc...hench the new forks...im looking foward to dal n simons new controller to boost the speed...

i will keep all informed on the project..