Which is the best Bosch/Yamaha/Shimano

[EddiePJ]

I cannot see any advantage using Yamaha or Shimano,the price difference is very small.

The advantage is in the front sprocket size.

But in defence of Bosch and based solely upon my own recent experience, the warranty and after care downtime for a repair was measured in days, when compared with months (BH) so couldn't be faulted. I also have no doubt that Martin wouldn't jeopardize his business name, by not having this angle covered though in relation to Yamaha as well.

In respect of buying outside of the country, it was little more than a year ago that I was giving the likes of Martin, a very unfair hard time. Due on my part to total ignorance and perhaps wrongly listening to others, which is something that I'll freely admit to. UK business suffers from quite a crap deal in relation to various taxation, rates, shop rental etc, all of which has to be paid for somewhere along the line.
In hind sight, when I bought my Haibike from Germany from Bike discount.de I hadn't even given Martin the grace of making a phone call to him, to at least discuss options. Shame that one.

I still prefer hub drive bikes, and wouldn't be spending even more money to buy one, had this not been the case. Both systems are great, both have their positives, and I have never found riding at a slow pace to cause an issue with hub drive, and oddly it is quite a satisfying and near on silent experience. My biggest concern with hub drives is the possibility of water ingress, which is something that I'm far less concerned about with the mid drive.

Foxtrot, in the event that you do opt for a KTM, I reckon that you could do a lot worse than visiting Damion Harris. I would imagine that they must have both hub and mid drive bikes to try.

TinKitten who owns a KTM E-Lycan P is also in your neck of the woods. http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/members/tinkitten.11377/

 

[Benjahmin]

I'm living in sunny Wales KudosDave. I think your based over in Kent if memory serves. A bit to far to travel in a day unfortunately mate

Hi Foxtrot,
I'm in Ceredigion, lots of hills round 'ere. I have a hybrid 700c with an Ezee front wheel hub conversion on it, and the wife's got a big bear LS. The hill climbing is awesome on both, though mine is unsprung and that's getting a bit jarry.
You're welcome to come and try that and I'll wizz you round some of the steeper ones.

 

[Foxtrot]

Yea it is difficult to know what to go for. I do think some hub drives have torque sensors too. I know the Giant I mentioned earlier did. Its easy to get carried away with with speed and hill climbing ability. When I first started thinking about buying one I was looking for that bit of assistance up the steeper hills. I still want to pedal and get the benefit of some exercise the reason I started talking about de restricting was the fact that I did'nt like the idea of the weight of the bike holding me back.
I've looked at that KTM Kudos Dave was talking about and it does seem like a an awesome bike and ticks a lot of boxes for me, but for the big battery is a bit off putting looks wise and not very discrete and would draw attention I think

Anyhow I'm going to keep an open mind until I've tried a few more

KudosDave just out of interest can you set the cut off speed of the KTM from the handlebar controller

 

[Foxtrot]

Eddie, thanks for that. I must have been writing my reply Croxden at the same time you were sending yours. Good advice. Thanks

 

[trex]

this one is the cheapest bike with torque sensor built right inside the hub motor:

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?sport-ts

 

[Foxtrot]

You to Benjahmin, thanks for the offer. The problem I suppose as with everything there's just too much choice. You don't want to buy the bike and then find out that you made the wrong choice. I'll let you know how I get on in Damians tomorrow

Cheers

 

[EddiePJ]

I've looked at that KTM Kudos Dave was talking about and it does seem like a an awesome bike and ticks a lot of boxes for me, but for the big battery is a bit off putting looks wise and not very discrete and would draw attention I think

I don't think that anyone could argue with that statement, but oddly it's surprising just how quickly that you get used to it, then don't even give second thought to it.

 

[RobF]

If you thought the Scott/Bosch bike climbed well that indicates you are capable of putting in some effort, because the Bosch motor is not the strongest.

Thus a dongled Bosch bike may give you what you seek - 20mph and good climbing.

You already know it climbs well, and translating some of the effort you put into climbing to cruising should give you the speed.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Foxtrot.... I don't think you can de restrict a KTM Panasonic to give greater speed....most of the bikes with BPM motor and King Meter type display can be derestricted....one of the pedelecs members did a long review on our Kudos Typhoon,it is in the review section of this forum.....that series of Arriba,Tornado,Typhoon and Escape MTB bikes all have the BPM motor with King display can be derestricted,as well as the new Rapide and Sonata commuter bikes,the latter have 30 gears.
I only ask your location so as to direct you towards your nearest dealer.
All can be viewed on the Kudos cycles website.
When you ride a few more bikes you may be surprised on the difference between the early SWX type motors and the BPM type motors,the SWX are the norm on the most popular e-bikes.
KudosDave

 

[Foxtrot]

Well just to let you all know I tried both the Yamaha Hailbike and a Cube with the Bosch performance. Both bikes were good, but in my opinion I thought the Bosch was the better bike. The Yamaha was a bit more forgiving when changing gear, the Bosch tended to be very how can I say Digital (instant). Although in saying that I did find on my short run that there is definitely a trick to changing gears on the Bosch. By easing off the pedals during the change it was a lot smoother and I'm sure I would get used to that.
Both bikes were mountain bikes really with wide tyres. The owner Damian Harris said that you could easily fit a thinner 29" hybrid tyre if you wanted.
On the test ride both bikes quickly reached 15mph and thereafter felt very heavy (most likely a lot of that can be attributed to the wide tyres I would imagine).Although out of the two I would say the bosch bike seemed to carry the weight less noticeably than the yamaha. I would say a dongle would be a must on both bikes otherwise the bike would be holding me back. 18-20mph would have been an Ideal speed.

So then I got to thinking about what everyone has been talking about regarding dealer support and how important it is. So I went back to Tredz who are only about 7 miles from where I live, with the thought of ordering the same bike with them for convenience sake. (which was a bit naughty of me if I'm honest). The people in Damian Harris's were very helpful. However I started to think what a drag it would be if I had to travel 35 miles to service the bike etc.

And that's when it happened. Tredz is right next to the Giant store and I went in again and just for my own peace of mind took the Hub motored Giant Roam XR out again and I have to tell you to me it felt head and shoulders above both the mid drives.

The sales guy explained to me that it was technologically more advanced than previous examples. I had to agree with him it was very quick, it to has a torque sensor and it rides more like what I would describe as a normal bike. Excellent derailleur (Decore) front and back smooth changing and I have to say even though I exceeded the cut off I found that the weight of the bike didn't feel that bad. (although if theres anyone who knows how to derestrict one of these please let me know)

So the bottom line is I'm going for it. Its currently priced at £1499 and you can have it 0% over 24 months. I still haven't tried it up a hill yet but the guy in Giant store said if is not better than the Bosch I could return it. This is one bike I could recommend.

Let me know what you think I would be interested to know

 

[Foxtrot]

Also one footnote for anyone thing of getting an electric bike. Should you require a new battery then it would cost you about £150 for a 36v 11 amp. Now you can't grumble at that considering a Bosch battery will set you back about £500

Foxtrot

 

[Kudoscycles]

Foxtrot...I bet you are pleased that this forum made you stop and think before being convinced by the Bosch marketing machine. There is no doubt that the Bosch is a fine engineered and developed motor but all crank drives have to be power limited due to the limitations of the gear systems.
The torque sensor will give you a more intuitive ride,more like a normal bike with assist, you do have to input pressure on the pedals, no lazy riding!
I would have loved you to try one of our BPM motored bikes,the Arriba is available with or without torque sensor and I think you would have been surprised how good Is the Tornado/Typhoon bike,from £1095.00 but you clearly value local support and I cannot offer that.
Enjoy your new Giant bike,do you know what is the hub motor?
KudosDave
ps....I suppose I should have looked before my posting,the Giant XR-e 2014 looks to have Giants version of the BPM motor,in fact the whole spec of the bike looks similar to the Kudos Arriba,it should have very good hill climbing abilities,I am sure you will like it.

 

[Foxtrot]

Thanks,Kudoscycles, I can't put my finger on it exactly but it just felt right. Virtually silent and I would say a bit quicker than either of the mid drives. I did make an error in my specs above though it has a Deore rear with Acera switchers and front deraillieur.

 

[rsyme]

I have an sDuro Haibike with the Yamaha mid-motor. I have previously owned a Kalkhoff Impulse Ergo. The Haibike has way more "grunt" or torque up hills and I find I rarely stray from Eco power which is at least similar to sport on the Kalkhoff. I tested bikes with both Bosch and Yamaha as well as Impulse 2 and the Yamaha has more torque than the Bosch and way more than the Impulse.

All the above are my observations with my lack of science included!!!!!

Cheers!
Robbie

 

[Kudoscycles]

Foxtrot...I have always thought that the Shimano Deore is my favourite gear set on these electric bikes,it is not as quick as the racing changers but it is almost bombproof strength.
Are you aware that Giant are the largest bike manufacturer in China,they export a lot but domestically every street corner will have a Giant dealer,at one time they made a lot of robust bikes for chinese peasants, but peasants these days don't often ride bikes-they ride a direct drive version of a pedelec,more like a mini moped with 500-800 watt power,you can buy one in any supermarket for £200 and secondhand for £50. So Giant sell sports bikes for the growing wealthy middle class where bike riding is now considered a healthy sport,the world turns in strange ways.
KudosDave

 

[Foxtrot]

Nice one Robbie, I don't think there is a right and wrong here. What suits one will not suite another. Its just horses for courses. I'm glad you happy with your Yam, but if you are ever passing a Giant shop and have some free time try out the Romer to see how it compares, I bet you'll be impressed. I was.

Well now we have to find a way of de-restricting it. Keep your eye out for any leads on that score

Cheers Dave suprising what you can pick up on this site

Foxtrot

 

[trex]

... Should you require a new battery then it would cost you about £150 for a 36v 11 amp. Now you can't grumble ...

Foxtrot

that can't be right?

 

[Foxtrot]

Hard as it is to believe Tredz that's what the manager told me in Tredz. It was actually £170 thinking back. He looked it up on line when I was in the shop. I thought it didn't sound right myself at the time. I'll double check it when I go in on Monday to make sure and post it here

 

[ray74]

You should spend some time and try them all out for yourself. I test ride the Bosch and the Yamaha system and I bought the Yamaha haibike Sduro as I felt it was more suitable to my kind of riding. I do 20 miles a day on mine to get to work and back and sometimes off road on my days off. I love it and already looking at getting a full sus Sduro next year when I save up a few more pennies.