Winter draws on

[danieldrough]

Evenings will be darker from tomorrow. In order to strictly comply with legislation, may I remind all our listeners,that at least one front and rear cycle light should meet BS 6102/3 (or its European equivalent).

Safe cycling.

Steve

 

[frank9755]

Steve,

Good reminder.

I'm afraid that my working hours are such that I've been using lights morning and evening for a couple of weeks already!

Frank

 

[electric.mike]

a good local action by our local police is a fine if you are caught with no lights, then you have a choice of paying the fine or buying lights.

mike

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

a good local action by our local police is a fine if you are caught with no lights, then you have a choice of paying the fine or buying lights.

mike

That's a nice example of intelligent coercion, would be nice if it could be applied to the increasing number of adolescents who ride the mongoose style bikes with no brakes, applying feet to the wheels or the gound as a method of stopping.

sheesh....
beeps

 

[Brangdon]

Does anyone know for sure if the lights included in the eZee Liv satisfy BS 6102/3? I had been presuming they do, but I just went out to check and I as far as I can see they are not marked with the standard, which I gather the standard says they must be.

 

[Ian]

The Highway Code

The Highway code says of bicycle lighting.

"At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp."

It does not say that the lighting must conform to any standard however other laws apparently do. My defence would be that I am following the highway code.

If the Liv's lights don't carry a BSI kitemark then they are not BS approved which is true of about 90% of lights on sale, however if they are effective then you are unlikely to have a problem.

 

[JohnInStockie]

In support of Ians post, I understand the law is that pedals should have 2 amber reflectors on, front and rear. Which would make any cyclist with either spd shoes or toe clips a lawbreaker I believe?

Some of these laws are a bit out dated perhaps.

 

[flecc]

The pedal reflector law is relatively recent in fact, as shown by the 1985 mention. A lot of cycling law is much older.

Today's toe clips often accommodate reflector provision, and on some pedals the reflectors are bolt on so toeclips can go behind them. SPDs are predominantly the province of sports cyclists who usually only ride in daylight. They weren't originally thought of as utility cycling items, likewise toeclips of course.
.

 

[Ian]

It appears that to comply with BS6102-3 a front lamp must have a minimum output of 400 cd and run for a mimimum of 10 hours on a set of batteries, that combination is a tall order which goes some way to explaining why so few carry the kitemark. In addition the light must remain on when the bike is stationary so traditional dynamos are out.

 

[flecc]

In addition the light must remain on when the bike is stationary so traditional dynamos are out.

Except on early Torqs with the front wheel held off the ground.

Think your's is a dynamo one too Ian?
.

 

[JohnInStockie]

The pedal reflector law is relatively recent in fact, as shown by the 1985 mention. A lot of cycling law is much older.

Today's toe clips often accommodate reflector provision, and on some pedals the reflectors are bolt on so toeclips can go behind them. SPDs are predominantly the province of sports cyclists who usually only ride in daylight. They weren't originally thought of as utility cycling items, likewise toeclips of course.
.

Sorry Flecc I was just pointing out that some laws are a nonsense, and this law appears to be a good example. I have toe clips and I can only have the reflectors on the rear as the bolts go right through where the reflector should be.

I wonder if anyone has ever been stopped for failing to comply with this law?

 

[Ian]

Perhaps reflective trouser clips will serve in lieu of pedal reflectors, failing that John, you'll have to wear reflective armbands.. around your ankles

On a serious note, I'd really like to think that the police have better things to do prosecute cyclists for not having pedal reflectors.

 

[flecc]

Yes, I know what you mean John, as you say, the pedal designs and legislation often don't match up.

I've lost reflector inserts from pedals but have never bothered with any thought of replacing them. Possibly the police feel the same about such legal situations, where they do bother to give them any thought.

I think it most likely though that police officers are only concerned with seeing that there is a front and rear light at night which are reasonably visible, ignoring all the other fripperies.
.

 

[Jeremy]

The law is also a bit questionable if your pedals can't be easily seen from the rear. As it happens, I do have pedal reflectors, but they are pretty pointless as my legs completely hide them from the rear, although I suppose they are of some limited benefit in terms of anyone coming at me on the wrong side of the road..............

I do wish our law makers would apply a bit of common sense now and again. Laws and regulations that are patently flawed tend to bring the whole legal system into disrepute.

jeremy

 

[danieldrough]

The reason for my initial post was to raise awareness. BS 6102/3 IS a requirement. It throws up any number of anomalies. I have two front lights,an El 300 which is 6102 and a more recent one which is more powerful, brighter and isn't. Were I to be involved in an accident, I could be considered partly liable if I was using the brighter light, as I would be "breaking the law".Similarly, I was very angry to find that having happily sold me clipless pedals, the shop didn't inform me that I was "breaking the law" when I used them at night. Illuminated bands on trousers (which I use) are not (in law) an acceptable substitute, even though again they are far more visible. The police have generally taken the attitude that any light is better than no light, which is why no action was taken ,for example,against cyclists who displayed flashing rear red led lights before they became legal. It is possible therefore to be illuminated like a Christmas tree,visible to all, and still be riding "illegally".

Steve

 

[BossBob]

I wonder if anyone has ever been stopped for failing to comply with this law?

I'd be very surprised if there were a total of 3 cops in the country that knew the requirement in the first place.

 

[flecc]

And they're in the canteen or doing paperwork in the station.
.

 

[Ian]

I think a good defence would be complying with the highway code requirements and stating that the bike and accesories were purchased in good faith as suitable for night use, after all the highway code is the one document we are all supposed to read and abide by. It's ridiculous to expect ordinary cyclists to be familiar with goverment statutory instruments which can only be obtained at consderable expense from HMSO, and then need a lawyer to interpret.

If trading standards do nothing to prevent the sale of unsuitable lights without warnings then the end user can hardly be held responsible for using them.

 

[DBCohen]

With the standard LED lights fitted to my Cadence, additional LEDs on my tyre valves (for side visibility), and flashing lights on my fluorescent tabard and backpack, I am lit up like a proverbial Christmas tree on the move for my early morning and early evening darkness commutes.

Yet I still get cut up by motorists on occasion (must be that 'Somebody Else's Problem' field fitted to my bike) - and even worse, I have noticed a huge increase in potential collisions with pedestrians and other cyclists crossing my path or stepping in front of me (without looking) in the gloomy hours.

Wonder if there is a pschological reason behind that (too many bright lights from cars?) or if it is just ignorance? I am considering replacing my bike bell with a louder electric horn...

David.

 

[flecc]

Wonder if there is a pschological reason behind that (too many bright lights from cars?) or if it is just ignorance? I am considering replacing my bike bell with a louder electric horn...

David.

The Government's Road Research Laboratory in an little publicised study decades ago reported on the sharp increase in pedestrian deaths after the unwise and advised against introduction of dipped headlights in town.

Protests about this from MPs and finally a Baroness in the House of Lords over a seven year period were all responded to with the statement that the government was urgently looking at the matter. I presume they're still looking.

It seems there could be an association with what you experience David.
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