Woosh Santana CDL

[HittheroadJ]

Reviewer: HittheroadJ

Purchased From: Wooshbikes, Southend on Sea, Hatti

Purchase Price: £799

Time Owned: 3 weeks

Local Terrain: Moderate Hills

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Strengths:
Sturdy. allows weight over 100kgs, handy with lots of shopping.
Powerful Crank motor.
Good in hills.
Feels like a "normal" bike.
Customer care (when an error occurs).
Battery actually lasts over 40 Miles
Quiet in normal use.

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Weaknesses:
Shifting gears is slightly awkward. Though you do get used to it.
Powerful engine+crank can damage chain etc. if gears not shifted properly (pull brake while switching gear, then let go).
The short delay when using the throttle is a bit awkward.
The supplied saddle keeps loosening itself (cheap to replace).
Will need to replace break pads fairly frequently.
Personally, my cadence in 7th gear is just over 15 mph on the straight.
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Summary:
The first one I was sent developed a severe error within a couple of miles of light use (engine burnt out). However unpleasant this was: errors can be made and woosh dealt with it in an examplary way (1. Apologised. 2. Sent for collection ASAP. 3. Offered money back. 4. asked to describe circumstances so they could relay it top the supplier.). I declined money-back and awaited the bike with replaced engine. Since it arrived my eBiking days have taken a leap forward.

I had an iZip for over 4 years and I loved it, but the reduced weight and increased range of the Santana CDL (I have the 15 Ah version, indeed) have really made a difference.

On the izip I could take trips up to 10 miles with one battery, or up to 20 miles with two batteries, but that was it, and driving with two batteries means that if you did run out of juice, you had to really exert yourself to get home. I tended to limit my range to what was attainable and not take too many risks.

With the Santana CDL I have made several 40 miles+ trips and it ran out of juice just before I got home, but I had taken steep ascends and climbed to over 400 meters. Although it ran out of juice on the last half mile, getting home was OK, because the bike is not as heavy as some eBikes.

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Overall Rating (out of 10) : 8 out of 10
Overall, very pleased. Can easily recommend.

The only feature that the iZip had that was better was the throttle. It responded immediately and while riding one could manually give full throttle allowing it to go 18 mph which was just slightly better cadence-wise.
I will keep one iZip for shopping and going to riskier parts of town (got vandalized at the trainstation once, would not want that to happen to my Santana CDL).

On longer distances the iZip is no match for the Santana. The comfort, the constant speed of about 15 mph, all adds up to much nicer experience.

 

[John F]

Reviewer: HittheroadJ

Purchased From: Wooshbikes, Southend on Sea, Hatti

Purchase Price: £799

Time Owned: 3 weeks

Local Terrain: Moderate Hills

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Strengths:
Sturdy. allows weight over 100kgs, handy with lots of shopping.
Powerful Crank motor.
Good in hills.
Feels like a "normal" bike.
Customer care (when an error occurs).
Battery actually lasts over 40 Miles
Quiet in normal use.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weaknesses:
Shifting gears is slightly awkward. Though you do get used to it.
Powerful engine+crank can damage chain etc. if gears not shifted properly (pull brake while switching gear, then let go).
The short delay when using the throttle is a bit awkward.
The supplied saddle keeps loosening itself (cheap to replace).
Will need to replace break pads fairly frequently.
Personally, my cadence in 7th gear is just over 15 mph on the straight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Summary:
The first one I was sent developed a severe error within a couple of miles of light use (engine burnt out). However unpleasant this was: errors can be made and woosh dealt with it in an examplary way (1. Apologised. 2. Sent for collection ASAP. 3. Offered money back. 4. asked to describe circumstances so they could relay it top the supplier.). I declined money-back and awaited the bike with replaced engine. Since it arrived my eBiking days have taken a leap forward.

I had an iZip for over 4 years and I loved it, but the reduced weight and increased range of the Santana CDL (I have the 15 Ah version, indeed) have really made a difference.

On the izip I could take trips up to 10 miles with one battery, or up to 20 miles with two batteries, but that was it, and driving with two batteries means that if you did run out of juice, you had to really exert yourself to get home. I tended to limit my range to what was attainable and not take too many risks.

With the Santana CDL I have made several 40 miles+ trips and it ran out of juice just before I got home, but I had taken steep ascends and climbed to over 400 meters. Although it ran out of juice on the last half mile, getting home was OK, because the bike is not as heavy as some eBikes.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall Rating (out of 10) : 8 out of 10
Overall, very pleased. Can easily recommend.

The only feature that the iZip had that was better was the throttle. It responded immediately and while riding one could manually give full throttle allowing it to go 18 mph which was just slightly better cadence-wise.
I will keep one iZip for shopping and going to riskier parts of town (got vandalized at the trainstation once, would not want that to happen to my Santana CDL).

On longer distances the iZip is no match for the Santana. The comfort, the constant speed of about 15 mph, all adds up to much nicer experience.

I have your bike and have done 1100 miles. I had electric problems in the early days, but it's been reliable since. About the first thing I did was to alter the King Meter cut off speed from 25 to 30 kph to get rid off that annoying cutting out/in at 14 mph. I replaced the seatpost which didn't last very long with a better one.

Also just replaced both brakes. One tip is to keep a close eye on the transmission wear. I'm looking to buy an ebike specific chain which hopefully should last longer.

 

[HittheroadJ]

Thanks for your tips John. I will probably write some more after a while, as I have done with my iZip.

Did you just buy long-lasting pads, or really replace the brakes completely?

thanks.
J.

I have your bike and have done 1100 miles. I had electric problems in the early days, but it's been reliable since. About the first thing I did was to alter the King Meter cut off speed from 25 to 30 kph to get rid off that annoying cutting out/in at 14 mph. I replaced the seatpost which didn't last very long with a better one.

Also just replaced both brakes. One tip is to keep a close eye on the transmission wear. I'm looking to buy an ebike specific chain which hopefully should last longer.

 

[John F]

Thanks for your tips John. I will probably write some more after a while, as I have done with my iZip.

Did you just buy long-lasting pads, or really replace the brakes completely?

thanks.
J.

Replaced the pads with Clarks organic (same as the original I think) See my post yesterday on this subject. I am trying to find out if there are alternative pads, as I'm not entirely convinced by the performance of this disc brake.

Read brakes replaced with standard Shimano

 

[HittheroadJ]

Thanks for your helpful info. Thee rear brakes are fine to me.
I will look for brakepads too.
Is the type very common? Do you have a link for fitting ones?
I just want to order a spare so I will not be without when I need extra brake-pads.
Thanks,
J.

 

[trex]

I think HitherroadJ has the tektro Novela, John F has the Zoom.

pads for Novela:
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/tektro/novela-disc-brake-pads-ec029484

 

[HittheroadJ]

Thanks Trex. You are correct, I do have the tektro novela. They are good, but on eBikes pads just wear faster than on non-electric bikes. The higher speeds and weights probably account for that.

I think HitherroadJ has the tektro Novela, John F has the Zoom.

pads for Novela:
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/tektro/novela-disc-brake-pads-ec029484

 

[derf]

strictly for what its worth, here's my brief experience - i bought a santana cdl by mail order and received it yesterday - have done two very hilly 12 mile journeys. compared to my girlfriend's kalkhof tasman with impulse 2 its weaker (as one would expect) - just about gets my 90kg up a very steep hill (one a middleaged 90kg bloke has to do in first gear on a rohloff equiped unassisted mountainbike to make any progress) - but satisfactorily (no sweat) - the impulse 2 kalkhoff does it in third gear (nexus 8 hub) but not without sometimes overheating.

on the straights and moderate inclines its great - fast and effortless. its less than half teh price of a tasman so one cant really complain about the movement rather than torque sensor - though i have a hunch a torque sensor provides more exercise (it stimulates one to put more effort in) and may be a bit safer for its immediate kicking in on junctions rather than teh small delay.

however, having acclamitised from the very high satisfaction a kalkhoff tasman provides, im very impressed with the santana.it's a strangemixed bag: the battery lights are really good (as good as my german jobs on high range mountain bike), the brakes, believe it or not ar ealso really good (teh zooom disc ones bedded in stops teh bike very well and i dont hear or feel any friction, teh v brake screeches a bit, but works), battery range seem excellent.

the gears are ok ones one gets the hang of it: its a deraileur so there isnt much risk of damage by applying much torque (as i always fear with the nexus 8 on teh kalkhoff) so im more inclined to stay in a higher gear and change less and make the motor work harder - and on moderate to low hills it stomps up without much effort in top gear (and fast, easilly at top speed, which if one derestricted it, which i woudl of course never do, would have been around 19 miles an hour up fairly serious hills that on my racer woudl only bve diable i nlower gears at around half or less that speed, with a 90kg bloke on top - on the one massive hill mentioend above on teh way to work changeuing to lowest gear in advance does the trick.

the delivery guy scraped teh bike, but its OK. If all the parts - that frankly all seem pretty good quality for the price - hang in there, i think everything will be just fine, which feels pretty good.

 

[jackhandy]

just about gets my 90kg up a very steep hill (one a middleaged 90kg bloke has to do in first gear on a rohloff equiped unassisted mountainbike to make any progress) - but satisfactorily (no sweat) - the impulse 2 kalkhoff does it in third gear (nexus 8 hub) but not without sometimes overheating.

I'm surprised the Impulse 2 overheats - Devotees seem to regard them as bombproof.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

...... though i have a hunch a torque sensor ............ may be a bit safer for its immediate kicking in on junctions rather than teh small delay.

Did you not think of using the throttle? If you use it, getaway will be faster than the Kalkhoff.

 

[Artstu]

the impulse 2 kalkhoff does it in third gear (nexus 8 hub) but not without sometimes overheating.

How do you know it's overheating and what effect do you experience?

 

[JohnCade]

I've gone the other way, so to speak. The Woosh Sport CD did do more of the work, and although I thought I was getting a good workout it was essentially voluntary much of the time, and I could take a rest while the bike went almost as fast.

The Kalkhoff Impulse I bought does need to be pedalled, and you only get plenty out of it if you put some effort into it. I am trying to get fairly bike fit again and lose the fat I've gained as I've become older so that suits me. Regarding the gear changes I find the opposite. I was always concerned that it was possible to wreck the Woosh drive if you weren't careful, and being careful was a downside I was willing to accept as it was a cheap bike and the system was willing if a bit crude.

But the Kalkhoff Nexus 8 will change much better generally. It won't allow you to change under a potentially damaging load, and will delay the change if you attempt to so protecting itself.

Stopping pedalling for a moment makes for good changes, and because the power kicks back in immediately on the first pedal push it is possible to change down on a steepening hill and still keep going without losing much speed; and any speed lost can be quickly regained with the power available when you put some effort in.

So you don't need to change down in advance or use the throttle as you do with the Woosh. I didn't actually like the idea of the throttle anyway. But because the Woosh system took a pedal turn or so to kick in unlike the Impulse, it was useful at times. I've not had to change down to less than third gear on a hill with the Kalkhoff yet either. That's a downside since the bike is well undergeared really and I'll need to do something about that.

 

[RobF]

Throttles are very handy for standing the bike up to get going - it's the one thing I miss about not having one on my Bosch bikes.

I think I'm right in saying the factory Bosch Speed bikes have a start button to do just what I require.

 

[trex]

throttle is also useful for hill climbing when you are in lowest gears.
Instead of pedalling like mad, sit back and let the motor do its job.

 

[JohnCade]

But the throttle would only add anything if you were in a lower assist mode. It's just as easy if you are to put it up to max for the climb when the throttle adds nothing extra. With Woosh the throttle has its uses as I wrote. Mainly hill starts and quick getaways. But If the Woosh gave full power immediately as the Impulse does with just a push on a pedal it would be redundant.

Apart from taking a rest of course or using the bike like a moped. But I want to ride something like a normal bike. Each to his own.

 

[derf]

Did you not think of using the throttle? If you use it, getaway will be faster than the Kalkhoff.

Did you not think of using the throttle? If you use it, getaway will be faster than the Kalkhoff.

perhaps i still have to get the hang of the throttle? ive used it - and it - very gently - gets me up to speed (feels a bit like a milk float), however, i think it just makes for a different riding style than on a torque sensor bike (a bit more gentle)

 

[derf]

How do you know it's overheating and what effect do you experience?

good question - it cuts out momentarilly and feels very hot (the motor), slowing down stops all of this from happening. perhaps its something other than overheating? the impulse 2 is mighty impressive - so much so that one can feel "dissapointed" for not speeding up very steep hills - i think it is bombproof as a previous post says - but everything has limits.

 

[Artstu]

Cheers. My Bosch gets some real hammer at times, but never seems to suffer any overheating effects. I just get a reduction in power when the battery is about 85% depleted.

 

[flapajack]

I think I'm right in saying the factory Bosch Speed bikes have a start button to do just what I require.

Nope. Not that I am aware of. But then I ride the bike like a normal bike, albeit able to change gears much earlier than on my normal MTB and going faster when conditions allow.

 

[RobF]

Nope. Not that I am aware of. But then I ride the bike like a normal bike, albeit able to change gears much earlier than on my normal MTB and going faster when conditions allow.

Bosch beg to differ, this is a lift from the Speed (old-shape battery) instructions:



Switching Start-assistance On/Off
The start-assistance function can be used for additional sup- port on the first meters when starting is difficult (e. g., at a traffic light or when starting uphill).
 The start-assistance function may only be used when starting (driving off) the eBike. Danger of injury when the wheels of the eBike do not have ground contact while using the start-assistance function.
To activate the start-assistance function, press and hold the “WALK” button 14 on the operating unit. The eBike’s drive is activated. The start-assistance function is switched off as soon as any of the following incidents occur:
– Yourelease“WALK”button14, – YoupressanotherbuttononthedriveHMI, – ThewheelsoftheeBikeareblocked(e.g.,throughbraking
or running against an obstruction), – Yourspeedexceeds18km/h.