Woosh Sirocco CD or Big Bear?

[CameraDealer]

Just tried my wife's new Woosh Santana CDL and I'm quite impressed. I rode it back from my office where it had been delivered and the 15 mile trip included a few decent slopes, which it managed with ease. The gears seem to take a bit of getting used to as the change isn't as instant as my Dawes non-electric road bike and it won't go into first gear, but that's something I'm sure I can sort out quickly via a YouTube video instruction.

All in all it seems terrific value and the company was very good to deal with. Thanks to the people who, in an earlier thread, pointed me in the right direction.

I'm an occasional cyclist, mainly on our European holidays and it's starting to hurt when we get to a hill so I'm now considering treating myself to a new Woosh. However, I'm a bit puzzled.

The Santana and its crossbar equivalent, the Sirocco CD, have a crank drive, which Woosh (and others) claim is a good system for older, overweight chaps like me who want to go up hills.

However, I like the look of the Big Bear, which they also suggest is a good choice for the likes of me but it's not crank drive!

Does it matter? Should I opt for the Sirocco CD or the Big Bear?

 

[trex]

If two bikes have a race, the Bear will win if the rider weighs more than 100kgs, the CD will win if the rider weighs less than 75kgs, between the two weights, they are about equally fast.
The Bear's BPM motor is optimized for weight carrying at low speed, the CD is optimized for high speed or high slope.

 

[CameraDealer]

If two bikes have a race, the Bear will win if the rider weighs more than 100kgs, the CD will win if the rider weighs less than 75kgs, between the two weights, they are about equally fast.
The Bear's BPM motor is optimized for weight carrying at low speed, the CD is optimized for high speed or high slope.

Thanks for your usual very swift response. Speed is unimportant to me. We're leisure cyclists who cycle mainly on holiday when we've lots of time and wish to explore the scenery.

My first requirement is as much help as possible when climbing hills, so I presume that I should be going for the Sirocco CD?

This would suit me as I assume it's the same battery as my wife's new Santana CD, which might come in handy one day.

 

[trex]

the battery is the same (36V 15AH) on these two bikes (Bear & CD).

 

[pn_day]

Bear is probably easier for an occasional cyclist - easier gear changes on a hub drive.

 

[John F]

Welcome to the Santana CDL club! Is it one of the new blue ones? I saw one in York the other day and it looked good. Wonder if the owner is on this forum?!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Big Bear will get you up the hills more easily.

 

[CameraDealer]

Welcome to the Santana CDL club! Is it one of the new blue ones? I saw one in York the other day and it looked good. Wonder if the owner is on this forum?!

Yes it's blue!

 

[CameraDealer]

The Big Bear will get you up the hills more easily.

Why is that if the crank drive is supposed to be better for hills? Is the BB more powerful?

 

[CameraDealer]

Bear is probably easier for an occasional cyclist - easier gear changes on a hub drive.

Does a crank drive have some effect on gear changing? They're both similar derailleur gears?

 

[RobF]

Does a crank drive have some effect on gear changing? They're both similar derailleur gears?

All the power on a crank drive goes through chain which can make gear changing clunky.

On a hub drive, the motor part of the power goes directly through the wheel, bypassing the chain.

Crank drives tend to be more satisfying - more like an ordinary bike - to ride, whereas hub motors have a weedy moped feel.

This may or may not be important to you - a lot of riders couldn't care less so long as the ruddy thing drags them up hills.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Why is that if the crank drive is supposed to be better for hills? Is the BB more powerful?

Who says crank-drives are better for hills? The Big Bear produces more torqu and more power.

The gear-changing is better on the BB because there's less tension on the chain.

 

[Geebee]

The advantage of the crank drive comes at the very steep end of climbing, it will be slower than a high powered hub but will climb a steeper hill with little assist.

But real world for the majority of riders and terrain either would be fine.

A CD can make gear changes harder as the motor loads up the chain and can cause noisey slow shifts, some have trouble getting used to the procedure to shift, which is to tap the brake lever lightly to kill the motor then shift and the motor restarts by itself, it took 2 rides for it to become automatic for me requiring zero extra thought.

Robf's description hits the point for me.

 

[hoppy]

Just tried my wife's new Woosh Santana CDL and I'm quite impressed. I rode it back from my office where it had been delivered and the 15 mile trip included a few decent slopes, which it managed with ease. The gears seem to take a bit of getting used to as the change isn't as instant as my Dawes non-electric road bike and it won't go into first gear, but that's something I'm sure I can sort out quickly via a YouTube video instruction.

All in all it seems terrific value and the company was very good to deal with. Thanks to the people who, in an earlier thread, pointed me in the right direction.

I'm an occasional cyclist, mainly on our European holidays and it's starting to hurt when we get to a hill so I'm now considering treating myself to a new Woosh. However, I'm a bit puzzled.

The Santana and its crossbar equivalent, the Sirocco CD, have a crank drive, which Woosh (and others) claim is a good system for older, overweight chaps like me who want to go up hills.

However, I like the look of the Big Bear, which they also suggest is a good choice for the likes of me but it's not crank drive!

Does it matter? Should I opt for the Sirocco CD or the Big Bear?

Please buy the Big Bear. Then you can give us all a really good long term comparison between the two systems.

 

[CameraDealer]

Who says crank-drives are better for hills? The Big Bear produces more torqu and more power.

Trex said: 'The Bear's BPM motor is optimized for weight carrying at low speed, the CD is optimized for high speed or high slope.'

GeeBee said: 'The advantage of the crank drive comes at the very steep end of climbing, it will be slower than a high powered hub but will climb a steeper hill with little assist.'

And many other posts that I've read mention that crank drives are better for climbing.

Of course it may well be that a particular hub drive is better than a particular crank drive as it may have more torque or more power, I confess to general ignorance on these matters, which is why I'm asking these questions.

So given two similar bikes with similar power does either system have an advantage in hilly terrain?

 

[trex]

the Bear has a nicer frame, more comfortable.

 

[Geebee]

This thread gets around to this Point, worth a read. (the Ezee is a higher powered hub)
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/is-it-only-expensive-bikes-that-have-throttle-mode-no-need-to-peddle.17392/

 

[CameraDealer]

the Bear has a nicer frame, more comfortable.

Thanks, I'm leaning towards the Big Bear. Do you have any views on crossbar or step through?

If I got the step through my wife could ride it if hers was every hors de combat. She'd have trouble getting over a crossbar.

 

[John F]

As a 6'4" male:

Negative:
Have to put up with sarcastic comments - need thick skin
Difficult to use a stand for maintenance due to bike geometry
Perhaps less control due to swept back bars on more challenging terrain
Pluses:
Easier to get on and off (especially useful in emergency situations)
Less likely to get nicked according to some posters
Encourages relaxed riding which I like.

Overall pleased with my choice of step thru

 

[Jason Scott]

How wide is the rear rack?