YOSE or Whoosh or Boost, or Something Else, for Conversion But Legal?

[RickRandom]

Hi all, my first post here.

I currently have an old btwin MTB that I bought secondhand over 10 years ago, and also a rather tired 20 year old Trek (a cheap recent impulse purchase) and I'm getting back into some intermediate level mostly off-road stuff after not doing much riding for a few years. I'm no expert rider, so I'll be the limiting factor on any riding, not the bike.

At 62 years old, and with a desk job, the uphills are pretty tough, and if I ride from home every one of the 4 roads out of the village is soon a climb, so I'm thinking about adding an electric kit, but I don't want to throw silly money at it. The bikes can't be worth more than £200 each, I'd guess. I'd also like to keep the option of removing the kit as and when it's not necessary, and swapping it between the bikes, but I guess lots of people say that and then never remove it!

I want to keep it all nice and legal, I just don't want the hassle of some over-zealous official giving me a fine in these days of media hysteria against e-bikes, so 250W continuous rated power, asssist to 15.5mph, etc. I have no desire to go tearing about at silly high speeds - I just want to get up hills without being so knackered that I don't want to ride further, and I want to avoid using hills as an excuse to not go out next time.

I'm happy that I can fit a kit myself, but would be cautious about trying to put an assortment of bits together from different suppliers, etc., unless with a lot of guidance. But maybe some folk here can point me to a practical way to build from bits.

So having looked at various kits, and discounted any front hub as I think that won't be much good on a slippery steep climb, and wanting the ability to swap the kit between my 2 bikes (both 26 inch) steers me away from mid-mount, unless I'm being stupid/naive to avoid mid-mount - feel free to say so - then that suggests rear hub motor. Both bikes are full suspension, so that eliminates rack mount batteries, so frame mount I think.

The sort of things I'm looking at (all full kits inc. built up wheel with 250W motor, 13 to 20Ah battery, controller, cables, display, etc.):

YOSE Power, about £330.
Boost, about £700.
Whoosh, about £600.

Online user reviews of YOSE seem to be very polarised, I think it was Trustpilot with 41% very good and 39% very bad, and customer support is from China, so concerning about customer support, albeit my one email got a good clear response in 24 hours.
Boost seems very expensive, especially with the low battery capacity, but at least UK-based so likely better customer support.
Whoosh seems promising, but pretty pricy, and again at least UK-based.

So I thought I'd seek more credible opinions on this forum.

Other suggestions welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Rick

 

[matthewslack]

Hi all, my first post here.

I currently have an old btwin MTB that I bought secondhand over 10 years ago, and also a rather tired 20 year old Trek (a cheap recent impulse purchase) and I'm getting back into some intermediate level mostly off-road stuff after not doing much riding for a few years. I'm no expert rider, so I'll be the limiting factor on any riding, not the bike.

At 62 years old, and with a desk job, the uphills are pretty tough, and if I ride from home every one of the 4 roads out of the village is soon a climb, so I'm thinking about adding an electric kit, but I don't want to throw silly money at it. The bikes can't be worth more than £200 each, I'd guess. I'd also like to keep the option of removing the kit as and when it's not necessary, and swapping it between the bikes, but I guess lots of people say that and then never remove it!

I want to keep it all nice and legal, I just don't want the hassle of some over-zealous official giving me a fine in these days of media hysteria against e-bikes, so 250W continuous rated power, asssist to 15.5mph, etc. I have no desire to go tearing about at silly high speeds - I just want to get up hills without being so knackered that I don't want to ride further, and I want to avoid using hills as an excuse to not go out next time.

I'm happy that I can fit a kit myself, but would be cautious about trying to put an assortment of bits together from different suppliers, etc., unless with a lot of guidance. But maybe some folk here can point me to a practical way to build from bits.

So having looked at various kits, and discounted any front hub as I think that won't be much good on a slippery steep climb, and wanting the ability to swap the kit between my 2 bikes (both 26 inch) steers me away from mid-mount, unless I'm being stupid/naive to avoid mid-mount - feel free to say so - then that suggests rear hub motor. Both bikes are full suspension, so that eliminates rack mount batteries, so frame mount I think.

The sort of things I'm looking at (all full kits inc. built up wheel with 250W motor, 13 to 20Ah battery, controller, cables, display, etc.):

YOSE Power, about £330.
Boost, about £700.
Whoosh, about £600.

Online user reviews of YOSE seem to be very polarised, I think it was Trustpilot with 41% very good and 39% very bad, and customer support is from China, so concerning about customer support, albeit my one email got a good clear response in 24 hours.
Boost seems very expensive, especially with the low battery capacity, but at least UK-based so likely better customer support.
Whoosh seems promising, but pretty pricy, and again at least UK-based.

So I thought I'd seek more credible opinions on this forum.

Other suggestions welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Rick

Màny happy Yose users here. Also many 'roll your own' conversions, which is a short cut to a Yose kit upgraded to a more liked control system.

If you are confident to play around a bit more take the second route. Otherwise maybe Yose as substantially cheaper than other options.

If you want a well thought out kit with less to fiddle with and excellent support, Woosh.

Kits that are essentially a brand like Boost or Swytch might add sleekness but nothing else.

On hub Vs mid, build and ride a hub and the terrain limitations will become apparent. Serious MTB type off-road needs a mid motor.

 

[Waspy]

Battery placement on full suspension bikes can sometimes be problematic.

Can you post some pictures of your bikes?

Do the bikes have disc brakes?

 

[RickRandom]

Thanks for the quick responses.

I'm not going to be doing any serious MTB stuff, I'm too old and injuries take too long to fix, so I'm a pretty cautious rider. Im doing bridleways and byways, bike parks, that sort of thing, not crazy rock-strewn climbs up real mountains.

My efforts on CAD (cardboard aided design) show that the Yose 36V 13Ah and 15.6Ah batteries will fit both bikes, including the space to slide it on and off the plate.

8.15 is work time. I'll do some photos later.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I'm getting back into some intermediate level mostly off-road stuff after not doing much riding for a few years. I'm no expert rider, so I'll be the limiting factor on any riding, not the bike.

Intermediate level off road, I would certainly consider a mid drive. How heavy are you ? You mention the roads out of the village - when you are off road do you feel you need the assist.

The efficiency of the hub motors you are considering starts to fall rapidly once you are going less than roundabout 8 mph. I have had occasions where I have used a hub motor for off road, mostly it's fine but for very steep, tricky surfaces, the controller has overheated because I've been going too slow

Lots of people talk about swapping over kits, very few do once they have experienced motor assist.

YOSE Power, about £330.
Boost, about £700.
Whoosh, about £600.

My first conversion I used Woosh and I got lots of good advice from Andy. Yose power is good too and very good value and provide reasonable support via email.

Woosh do a very good, powerful mid drive motor (TSDZ8) that is UK legal but you need to be very careful that it will fit - check bottom bracket size and chain stay (there are templates to check it)

Please post pictures of the bike

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I'm not going to be doing any serious MTB stuff, I'm too old and injuries take too long to fix, so I'm a pretty cautious rider. Im doing bridleways and byways, bike parks, that sort of thing, not crazy rock-strewn climbs up real mountains.

In that case I would probably go for the Yosepower 250W rear cassette with battery - unfortunately they are out of stock of 26" wheels at the minute. The Woosh kits I have used have a better controller than the Yosepower 250W kits and are slightly more powerful (17-18a vs 15a). They also do one with built in torque sensor https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?85TS - that is available with 26" wheels (so you don't need to fit a pedal sensor). They do one with a 36V 20Ah battery which may be too big for your bikes or one without a battery - you could just buy a smaller battery separately

 

[Nealh]

Yose have very good CS going by the response from those who post on here, who have had need to contact them.
Yose use Lishui speed controllers which are a bit harsh and crappy , but usable.

Woosh are superb with their CS, they also use Lishui controllers but have ones with better user programming I believe. Spares are available from Woosh as is tech help all from Southend.

 

[Benjahmin]

In the 'putting your own kit together' arena, I would suggest Topbikekit, with a Battery purchased from Greenlance (UK supplier).
From Topbikekit you can get the favoured KT controllers, giving you programabilty and dual voltage capability. this means that a few years down the road, as your hill climbing ability fades even further, you can swap to a 48v battery to give more torque so keeping you on the road. You select your own combination of motor,controller, display, pas etc, all with compatable connectors, so plug and play.
The KT system has been used by many on the forum, including myself, so there'll be plenty of help and guidance available.
The down side here is that buying a pre-built motor wheel makes shipping expensive. So, I bought a bare motor and built my own wheel for the first time and found it thoroughly enjoyable with video help from the Grin.ca technologies web site.
As to hub or mid. I ride a rear hub around very hilly west Wales. It is true that it's best to keep speed at 8mph or above if you can. But short runs up steeper hills at lower speed cause no damage that I've found. With a hub you get no chainline issues, gnarly gear changes or extra chain wear.
Woosh kits seem to be put together well. Their Lishui programming is locked to suit the motor it comes with, so they are pure plug and play. For the extra cash you get excellent back up and support and the peace of mind of a UK supplier.

 

[AntonyC]

I've been impressed with the quality of the electrics on my Woosh bike.

 

[saneagle]

Hi all, my first post here.

I currently have an old btwin MTB that I bought secondhand over 10 years ago, and also a rather tired 20 year old Trek (a cheap recent impulse purchase) and I'm getting back into some intermediate level mostly off-road stuff after not doing much riding for a few years. I'm no expert rider, so I'll be the limiting factor on any riding, not the bike.

At 62 years old, and with a desk job, the uphills are pretty tough, and if I ride from home every one of the 4 roads out of the village is soon a climb, so I'm thinking about adding an electric kit, but I don't want to throw silly money at it. The bikes can't be worth more than £200 each, I'd guess. I'd also like to keep the option of removing the kit as and when it's not necessary, and swapping it between the bikes, but I guess lots of people say that and then never remove it!

I want to keep it all nice and legal, I just don't want the hassle of some over-zealous official giving me a fine in these days of media hysteria against e-bikes, so 250W continuous rated power, asssist to 15.5mph, etc. I have no desire to go tearing about at silly high speeds - I just want to get up hills without being so knackered that I don't want to ride further, and I want to avoid using hills as an excuse to not go out next time.

I'm happy that I can fit a kit myself, but would be cautious about trying to put an assortment of bits together from different suppliers, etc., unless with a lot of guidance. But maybe some folk here can point me to a practical way to build from bits.

So having looked at various kits, and discounted any front hub as I think that won't be much good on a slippery steep climb, and wanting the ability to swap the kit between my 2 bikes (both 26 inch) steers me away from mid-mount, unless I'm being stupid/naive to avoid mid-mount - feel free to say so - then that suggests rear hub motor. Both bikes are full suspension, so that eliminates rack mount batteries, so frame mount I think.

The sort of things I'm looking at (all full kits inc. built up wheel with 250W motor, 13 to 20Ah battery, controller, cables, display, etc.):

YOSE Power, about £330.
Boost, about £700.
Whoosh, about £600.

Online user reviews of YOSE seem to be very polarised, I think it was Trustpilot with 41% very good and 39% very bad, and customer support is from China, so concerning about customer support, albeit my one email got a good clear response in 24 hours.
Boost seems very expensive, especially with the low battery capacity, but at least UK-based so likely better customer support.
Whoosh seems promising, but pretty pricy, and again at least UK-based.

So I thought I'd seek more credible opinions on this forum.

Other suggestions welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Rick

I wouldn't trust Trustpilot reviews for ebike kits. Most people haven't a clue about this stuff, so they fit it incorrectly and get problems, then blame the supplier. You need really thick skin to be an ebike kit supplier.

For riding on the road, like shopping, touring, visiting and commuting, a hub-motor is better, but if your preference is for trails and off-road stuff, a crank-drive system is better.

For a hub-motor system, your weight is a significant factor in your choice. For less than 80kg, 36v is fine. For more than 90kg, 48v is really needed to give the required torque.

Weight isn't really significant with a crank-motor, so a crank motor is a bit more flexible, but you don't get such a nice ride as a good hub-motor system.

Nearly all the ebike hub-motor kits have crappy speed control controllers, which are sort of tolerable if you don't know better and if you run with fairly low power, but a controller that uses current control is much better. You have to hunt the inner depths of Aliexpress to find kits with them. Here's one, but you get no support with this stuff. It always works and never breaks unless you do something stupid. When you buy from Woosh or Yose and you messed up, they might pretend that the stuff was faulty and replace it for you:

36/48V 250W Electric Bike Conversion Kit Brushless Rear Cassette Gear Hub Motor Wheel With TFO1U Color display for EBIKE - AliExpress 18

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

If you tell us about your weight and show us photos of the bikes, we can give specific advice.

Forget about the idea of swapping stuff between bikes. It's not going to work. I took the kit off a bike once and reinstalled it on another because the bike got run over and flattened by a car.

 

[RickRandom]

I'm 70kg (down from 82kg a couple of years ago).

Both bikes have hydraulic disc brakes, bottom brackets are about 75mm and rear dropouts about 235mm. Are these standard sort of sizes? (As much as anything is standard.)

See photos of my 'CAD' efforts. I asked Woosh about their battery dimensions for the kit Peter linked to, and is the same as my cardboard cutout, so will fit both bikes.

I'm very impressed by the speed and detail of all the responses here - thank you all.

 

[AntonyC]

Standard sizes are 73mm for BB and 135mm for rear DOs. Batteries vary, 92mm is a common height including the mounting plate but not allowing for removal nor possible details under the plate like projecting inserts and rubber stabilising gaskets. If you allow 4mm both bikes look quite snug even before the suspension compresses.

 

[RickRandom]

I mis-typed, and 235mm should have been 135mm - clumsy fingers and/or brain - so it seems standard.

For the white btwin, I worked out how far the suspension swing arm would travel in its arc, and positioned the cardboard battery accordingly, so I'm pretty sure that is OK.

For the blue Trek, I think the only issue is the air valve on the shock facing forward, so I was thinking to rotate the shock to point the valve back, but I haven't tried that yet.

 

[Benjahmin]

The rear hub motors I have fitted have been 135-140mm. You may need to spring the rear frame slightly (subject of much debate on here), but by very little for each side. Better tight than loose I think.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I'm 70kg (down from 82kg a couple of years ago).

Both bikes have hydraulic disc brakes, bottom brackets are about 75mm and rear dropouts about 235mm. Are these standard sort of sizes? (As much as anything is standard.)

See photos of my 'CAD' efforts. I asked Woosh about their battery dimensions for the kit Peter linked to, and is the same as my cardboard cutout, so will fit both bikes.

I'm very impressed by the speed and detail of all the responses here - thank you all.

Nice Bikes !

Yes - 73mm bottom bracket - standard(ish) mtb size

So you could fit a mid drive - you would need to know whether the bottom bracket was press fit or BSA and if it was press fit what sort of press fit. Bafang BBS01, Tongsheng TSDZ2 or the Woosh TSDZ8 are all 250W rated. You'd need to do a bit of checking that the motor would fit (it probably will).

Alternatively, go for a rear hub motor, this has the technical disadvantage of increasing unsprung mass, but I think from how you are describing your routes, it would not make a very noticeable difference. I have a 26" wheeled full suspension bike with a rear hub and it seems fine for the sorts of routes you are describing. For more heavy duty off road a mid drive would be more suitable.

You're light, so 36V should be fine.

That cardboard cutout looks tight - would the suspension catch on it ? Maybe ask Andy from Woosh what he thinks ? I think that is the smallest of the standard sizes - I will take a quick look later
eta
276mm*112mm ?

Very Small Little Short Down Tube Ebike Battery Case Box Housing 36v 48v 52v 30 pcs 21700 Cells Li-ion E-bike Battery Case - AliExpress 18

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

I and others have used this store - if you message them they are very helpful. They will do one including Samsung / LG / Panasonic cells. Not sure of the max capacity -10S3P 21700 cells I think = 36V*15Ah ?

Woosh (and others) do a 36V 15Ah bag battery that fits on the saddle ?

 

[RickRandom]

There's been a lot to think about, with all the advice here and prompt responses from Andy at Woosh.

I did a cardboard template of the Woosh higher capacity DP2170 36V 20Ah battery that Andy suggested might be an option, but it looks very tight, due to the combination of it being slightly longer and slightly taller. I've swapped the shock round, so the narrower end is there the battery would contact, and that has gained a bit more space.

The difficulty I am having is knowing the dimensions of how the corners of the battery are angled, as they will determine how far along the downtube I can position it, and the controller dimensions, which will determine how far up I have to lift it.

If anyone here has the DP2170 and could measure the corners and the controller dimensions, that would be really helpful, and then I can make plywood templates and try them, to make sure. I already know it is 368mm long by 103mm high, but the corners and controller are key.

The 276x112mm Aliexpress battery is too tall, and would definitely foul the shock.

In terms of hub or mid-mount, I don't think I need ultimate performance that mid-mountwould offer, so on balance the 85TS hub motor seems favourite in my mind.

Whichever, as a newbie to this subject I'm leaning strongly to Woosh, for low risk and customer service, even if pricier than Yose or buying individual parts.

Decisions, decisions...

 

[Nealh]

If space is tight but a battery can fit, look for a side release battery.
They negate having slide or lift the battery and the top simply releases to the side.

Hailong 2 do a side release battery.