bogmonster

Flecc, While I share the bulk of sentiment and do indeed park my cars off road both at home and at work I would be hesitant at holding out of town supermarkets as a good model (I know that is not exactly what you did). I try my best to avoid the 'local' supermarket and shop at independents with local produce or grow my own when I can. In theory local shopping should be better for transport as people can easily walk and cycle to shops and maybe not need a car. Also, supermarkets kill local economies and ship food around the globe. They are the devil's work The trouble is there are few options instead of cars and so much land is already being used for development. We should have started building three stories in our houses as a matter of course years ago with parking space underneath living space. I know some houses do this but not many. The other solution is to remove reliance on cars by bringing back local communities (yes, I would like local post offices back) and to greatly improve public transport that is woeful in the UK. Right, getting off soapbox now, rant over BM.

Hey, not forgotten that I started this thread. I've been very busy with work and will be on holiday for the next couple of weeks. I hope to make some progress when I return.

Hi, I'm sure there isn't the perfect bike or a single design that will be good for everyone so diversity in the range is good. The drive through gears are a good idea, just don't like the current implementaions much. The Panasonic unit is nice but restricted for the Japanese market. One of the key features for me is a bike that freewheels well and handles like a regular bike. Few of the hub bikes do this A sub 18kg bike that will give me a fair hand up hills and into wind. I find the UK law restrictive and average about 15mph on a regular bike, I want to go faster and can do that on the flat and downhill, just not fit enough to keep this up on longer hilly routes. A modular battery system so I can take the batteries I need for the journey. For my needs the Cytronex is the closest I can find although this clearly is not for everyone. I feel that there may be some middle ground between the Cytronex and the Wisper 905 that is worth exploring? In the meantime I think I will by a Cytronex - think it is a shame that it does not use a lighter battery technology. If I was simply after transport than what I would really like is an electric car - they are just not up to the job at the moment, not enough range or not fast enough or too expensive. Then it would be an electric scooter and there are some cracking models coming onto the market now. A moped like e-bike is not high up my personal list and many of the e-bikes tend towards this model. I think I would get an electric scooter over the Wisper 905 and I regard the Wisper as one of the better traditional e-bikes. Cheers, BM

Flecc, I'd want a helicopter to fly in front and light the way for that price! Wow, my first car cost less! BM

Hi, Not sure if this is of general interest - I will see if I get any replies I have been looking at lights for my bike and really struggling to find anything that allows me to ride at night in unlit country roads, especially when the moon is not out. I Have found some lights that would do the job but they are sooo expensive so I am making my own. Still early days but I have made a very rough prototype using halogen MR16 12v lights likt the type you use in regular downlighters. For power I am using 2 7.2v NIMH RC car packs in series. Overvolting the 20w halogens to 14.4v volts provides a nice bright light. I now need to order some bulbs with a narrow beam like the high efficiency Osram 20w 24 degree IRC bulb. For mounting the bulbs I am using black 40mm waate pipe compression fittings from B&Q. For a chgarger I am using a dual peak charger used for RC cars. I have also ordered a digital controller for the lights from Canada: LIGHT BRAIN - Bike Light Controllers This will allow me to decide to overvolt or not. I am hoping the controller will work OK for a 10w bulb as well so I can use a dual bulb config. I only need the bright light on the potholed country roads when the moon has not risen and the fog is in. One of the interesting things I have discovered (much to my surprise) is that regular halogen bulbs are more efficient than LEDs when overvolted. LEDs are more efficient when undervolted. To get a bright light out of LEDs and a high degree of efficiency you need an awful lot of them. Unfortunately the regulator in he controller is not good for more than 20v input so no good on 24v or 36v systems Anyway, when I get closer I will post some pics and let you know if they are any good. I'm expecting the lights to cost about 60 pounds. On the commercial market it would cost 150 pounds plus to get anyhting close I think? Strange, but I saw lights for well over 400 pounds, whop buys these? Cheers, BM.

Hi all, All good comments and I will 'try before I buy'. The Wisper is a cracking bike and I feel it is definately one of the more compelling options in the more traditional ebike arena. I think riding it with just throttle brought home how easy it would be for me to be lazy. I can imagine on a winters day it would be the best option with lashing rain and high winds. However, I suspect I would just jump in the car on those days anyway. My plan at the moment is to get a bit fitter on my current pushie by going out each day and try a run into the office soon. I think if I can make it into the office and back at a reasonable rate on my current bike then the Cytronex makes sense. The idea of turning on the juice on the hard bits make sense. Certainly on my way to work I think I would be over the assist speed most of the time anyway so a good freewheeling bike is ideal. There are a couple of short hills but nothing too bad - I doubt I would use the assist for more than a about 5 miles of the route. The route back is a bit more brutal but I guess I am looking at it as a challenge, not as an obstacle. The thing that put me off the Wisper (and it is not a fault of the bike really) was that it was very hard to pedle unassisted and not a pleasant experience. On my current bike I love the sections where I can put my head down and wind up the pedles in top gear and get the bike really moving under my own steam. I would never get the chance to do this on the Wisper. The commute needs to be fun, otherwise I would be too tempted to just jump into my car. I a have a convertable v8 Mustang that is a blast to drive on a nice sunny day, the bike needs to be compete with that and the Wisper just does not cut the mustard. I currently struggle up the hills due to a lack of fitness, my legs really start to burn but that is good, it means I am doing some work. A bit more fitness on my part and a helping hand is all I need I think? Part of the fun for me will be seeing if I can shave time off my commute as I get fitter. So, before laying down any cash I will simply try and use the tools I have already got, my old bike and my old legs and see how far they will take me. The whole ebike think is really confussing. The bikes are so different and suitable for different needs. Selecting the right bike is not easy. They have clearly come on a long way, the Wisper is a clear indication of that. The Cytronex concept is certainly suitable for a different sort of user to the regular ebike users. It is probably not the right choice for somebody who simply wants transport, it is clearly for somebody who wants the full cycling experience but needs a helping hand to remove some of the less pleasant bits. Neither model is right or wrong, better or worse etc etc. They are simply different. As a final thought, if I needed to cycle every day I might lean more towards the Wisper. As a more functional and utilitarian bike (this is a compliment by the way - I personaly like utilitarian most of the time) I don't think the Cytronex comes close. If you like the Wisper is my diesel Skoda Octavia estate. The Cytronex is my v8 Mustang. It is all reasonably clear in my head now, probably means I will do a u-turn in a week and need to eat my words..... Cheers, BM.

OK, So just tried a Wisper 905se in Southampton. Very impressed, not quite as heavy as I feared, looked well put together, rode well. Best not mention the brakes.... And I have decided to order a bike.... But not the Wisper. I will order a Trek Cytronex. The Wisper was fun but it just didn't work for me, too much like a moped, not bike like enough. And that is not a critism of the bike by any means, just don't think it is what I am looking for so please don't let me put anybody off. I have started cycling every evening on my old bone shaker and I am covering 10 miles in about 40 minutes, that's about 15mph and that's with hills and windy weather etc. I am just struggling to extend the the distance at that pace at the moment but then I am very unfit at the moment. I think with some more regular cycling I will be able to push that out and with some help on the hills the 21 miles I need to commute will be just as fast, if not faster on the Cytonex than on the Wisper. I don't think I need or want assitance on the flat (unless there is a really strong headwind). Maybe I will need a second battery, maybe not - I think I will try with jsut the one to start with and see how I get on. I will recharge it at work. I think with the Wisper it will help me to be lazy while the Trek will encourage me to work up my fitness level and try to shave time off my commute Still all fresh in my head but I think I have a plan, well at the moment anyway. Thankyou for all the good advice and I will surely let you know where I put my money. Cheers, BM.

Do youi mind me asking which hill? Draycott Steep up from Draycott past the gliding club is the worst I know of here. My car struggles especially if I need to stop to let somebofy past. BM

Hi, Can you tell me what the peak power output is of the controller? Alternatively the max current the controller will deliver. I am keen to compare this with the Wisper. Also, anybody got any idea what it is on the 36v kit? Cheers, BM EDIT: OK, looking at the alien site it looks to be 12A which is quite low I think. I would have expected more like 18 - 20A for some torque hill climbing? Is this wrong? BM

Just been to the Cyclone website. What is that all about? Very strange....

If I get the chance I will try and test one this weekend. It is going to be 160 mile round trip which is a real pain. I am tempted to just order one but that would be foolish really. If I can average about 16 to 18 mph on the way to work then that would be fine. The route back is more uphill so I expect it to take a little longer. I am working in London on Tuesday but don't think I will get enough time to go the the electric bike shop. This is a real pain in the @!*&. It is good that somebody else has a long commute and is getting on well with the bike. Also good that you are getting reasonable speed with gravity on your side - everybody loves blasting down hills don't they:D BM

Hi, This is something I am interested in as well as I am just about to start using a bike to commute. When I used to cycle I found that the biggest problem in the winter was hands and feet getting cold when wet. As the weather gets colder look at waterproof gloves. To keep warm a hat or balaclave - thin that will fit under brain bucket. I used to do a lot of winter walking and suffered very cold hands - solved cold hands by wearing a hat! Took me ages to work it out as my head always felt warm. As for trousers, don't spend a fortune as legs don't sweat as much as trunk so supper breathable is less important. For top, a drawstring around the bottom is good if going at any speed as water gets sprayed up from below. Also, a tight fitting around the neck and sealable cuffs to stop water ingress. I use an old goretex walking jacket at the moment but I think there are plenty of good alternatives to goretex these days. It is not perfect as it has a hood which is no use with a brain bucket on. I have old goretex overtrousers but they are too thick for cycling and personally I don't like then for walking in either as they are just too restrictive. A cheepo set of Regata breathable overtrousers might be the way to go? A poncho is great for walking or low speed cycling but not for high speed of windy days! Too much like a kite for my liking. I much prefer a poncho for walking in hot climates even if they do make you look a bit of a dork. Feet, well, you can get waterproof over boots or waterproof socks. I found that water used to run around the front mudguards and where it exists the wind would blow it straight into my shoes. So much water running through shoes makes for very cold feet in the winter. I think this is really imortant, especially on an e-bike where you might not be generating as much warmth. When you get cold and wet it is easy to lose concentration at exactly the time when you need to have your wits about you the most. If I get a new jacket for cycling I think it will be florescent. Visibility of car drivers is much reduced in the rain so flashing lights isn't a bad idea either. BM

John, That is is good point you make. I had considered this but thought that as the bike starts dropping off power assist at about 9 mph (standard gearing) in a series of steps then you would need significant overgearing to still get reasonable assist at 18+ mph? Have I got this wrong? I do like the concept of a motor that can be geared (especially if it is driven through gears) to alter the speed at which max tourque, max efficiency etc occur. A panansonic type setup that didn't tail off in steps as RPM goes up would fit the bill nicely. Can't find such an animal The real issue I have is no real life exposure to electric bikes - better go and have a look at some at the weekend.... So all of this begs a really stupid question. With a hub based bike such as the Wisper, with 'off road' enabled the bike under its own steam will reach say 18mph on the flat. Presumably if I put some effort it I can reduce it's current draw. If I put lots of effort in I could increase the speed above 19mph but as this is beyond the speed the motor was designed to run, would it start working against me or would it simply be less efficient? BM

MattyDuk, Sorry, my last reply was quite flipant - grumpy, having a bad day! For what it is worth I think I am going to get the Wisper. Its about the only option that is fast enough and has enough capacity for my needs. I am tight fisted and think that if could get away with it I would look for a cheaper option such as an Alien kit on my existing bike. My bike is a bit too old and cranky for that and the alien kit only has a 10a battery. Alternatively if I had a shorter commute and fewer hills (sub 15 miles) I think I would go for a folder such as ther Dahon with the 24v Alien kit. Somebody on the forums did a very nice conversion. Sub 10 miles and I would cycle an ordinary pushie. I guess with a shorter commute and a real desire or need to an electric bike I think I would wait for a month or so and see what the new models have to offer. I suspect that they would not be as good as the Wisper so it would come down to price. Horses for courses I guess. The Wisper is the only real option I can find that fits my specific needs so a Wisper it shall be for me. Given your commute I think you have more options open so it might be worth thinking about other nice to haves? Would a folder be useful? Do you desire help with very steep hills (from what I have read a Panasonic based machine is the winner here)? Do you want to keep as much cash as possible to spend on beer instead How important is speed? How much effort do you want to put in? Do you want a bike that is as close to a regular bike as possible with just a little help when the going gets tough? I know little about electric bikes but I do know that I asked myself all of the above questions. Unfortunately for me there were conflicts, the perfect bike does not exist for my needs so I comprimised and weighted the decision the points that were most important to me. My reasoning is as follows: Want folder but can't find one that will do the combination of speed, distance and hills. Don't need a bike to cope with mega hills so don't need the Panasonic that would be too slow elsewhere. But do want 36v. Want to keep as much cash as possible and the Wisper is not the most expensive unit. Happy to put some effort in - actually, I am wondering if I have gtone too far and the bike will be too moped like for me Before I finally make uo my mind I will try a Wisper and see how I get on with my old bike - cycling my old bike without a motor is the cheapest option Did 10 mile tonight up and down lots of hills in just over 30 mins so with a bit of practice... But if it's convincing you want, get one, get one, get one... BM

How do you fancy trading commute? I think if I had 3.5 miles each way and didn't want the bike for longer leisure use I would go for the cheapest option going but I'm tight fisted like that. That would be a cheepo pair of trainers for me and a nice walk

What sort of stress other than the broken spoke and the punctures? BM

I was going to test my route tomorrow on a regular, full person powered bike but the weather forecast is putting me off So, can anybody recommend an e-bike with amphibious capabilities?

Hi, yeah, I think I have ruled out the Pro Connect, think it will be too slow for what I need. With 21 miles I need to keep moving at a fair whack to get to work at a sensible time. If I don't go for the Wisper I will probably get an Alien kit but would definately need to charge at work. Charging at work wont be too bad, I will just buy a spare charger to live under my desk. Even with the Wisper I think I would charge at work. I don't think I would need to much assistance on the way to work, lots of downhill and usually witht he wind. Of course, going home is a different issue..... I have snt a PM to BrizzleBoy but it is asking quite a lot. However it would be very convenient for me as he is only 10 miles from where I work. If not I think I will take a trip to Southampton. Cheers, BM

Thule 9502 Ride-On Bike Carrier - Roof Rack Shop UK This is the one I am thinking of getting - not a bad price but I already have a towbar on one of my cars. Depending on your car a towbar will be from 200 pounds to maybe 600+. The bar on my Subaru Impreza was 260. A towbar on my Skoda Octavia would have been 600 (due to reversing sensors and the need for a proprietary VW system) Cheers, BM.

I'm probably not the best person to input as I am not an electric bike owner, however the folding route sounds the easiest by quite some way. Given the extra weight of an electric bike, getting it safely onto a roof carrier sounds way too energetic Otherwise you are stuck with a rear carrier which are a pain as well. The best ones are the ones that attach to the towbar but these are going to be expensive if you don't have a towbar already fitted. Also, rear carriers should really have a light board although most people don't bother. Some of the high level rear carriers lift the bikes above the lights so maybe one of these if you go down this route? I would rather get a folder myself but due to the distances I want to do I'm not sure how practical it is?

So, one more option to consider is adding a kit to my existing bike. I have an old but still very servicable Claud Butler MTB and a Daws road bike. I'm considering the Alien 36v kit on the MTB. Looks to be the same motor as the Wisper. Not sure I like the rack arrangment but thye price is not too bad at 470 inc delivery. Looking at the kit I think it would be easy to fit to my bike, forks have the correct spacing. The only issue I see is a slight lack of room on the handle bars as they have a tapered profile - I think the grips would need trimming down and the break levers moving out a tad. The main issue I see is the lower capacity battery? But it would give more gears, a lighter bike and probably better equipment. Anyway it is a tough call, the Wispa would cost me about about 700 through the CYcle Scheme but I would need some mudguards & lights on my MTB so call it 200 pounds difference. Of course, using my existing bike is more environmentally friendly. The reports on the Alien kits look OK, they have 645 watt peak output and a potentiometer that can be tweaked to give assistence up to 20mph. The kit does not mention pedelec sensors but looking at other people descriptions I think if comes with one - not sure if it will fit my bike? Any thoughts on this idea? Would it fit my needs? Would it be roughly on a par with the Wisper perfromance wise? Are the batteries lasting OK for those that have the kit? Cheers, BM.

Hi David, I live in North Somerset - Priddy to be precise - on top the Mendip hills. Where is the closest dealer? Also, I am confussed about the different models and specs? What motor does the 905se city have? Is it the 200w or 250w unit? Likewise for the 905se sport? I ask because full muguards and a rack and necessary for me and I don't really care forsuspension forks pointing me to the city. Persumably the 250watt motor is better on the hills at the cost of distance? By the way, a good model for trying bikes might be a rental system for say upto a week (with some form of guarantee of course) and then if the renter decides to buy a bike, some element of discounting on the rent? That kind of system would work well for people like me as I could collect the bike on a saturday, try it on my route to work and return it on the following saturday. If the potential buyer decides nope, not for me then the dealer gets the rent, if the buyer buys, the dealer gets the rent (maybe discounted a bit ) and the sale of a bike. Above all the buyer knows exactly what they are in for. Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I would like to try before I buy. Given the level of investment the bike has to work out for me! Currently I drive to work and woud still do this maybe 50% of the time. The bilke would pay for itself quite quickly providing I use it enough (partly because of the Cycle Scheme subsidising cost). The main reason for cycling is environmental and this is great if I am not out of pocket and providing it does not add too much to my journey time. It will definately take longer by bike as I can average almost 30mph in the car on the way home but that is OK upto a point. Cheers, BM.

Flecc, The Steepest hill is definately no more than a 1 in 8. The steepest hill around here is about 1 in 7.5 but isn't on my route. That climbs 146m in 1.1km and I have cycled up it a long time ago and it almost killed me. In fact it is considerably steeper than anything on my route. The steepest section on my route is 10.3% or 1 in 9.7 - 300m to climk 31m. My numbers have come from planning a route on Memory Map and then looking at the profile data. Basically this is using 1:50000 OS maps so they might level out some of the hills a tiny bit but I think the numbers are reasonably accurate. So, the way I'm reading this is 1) The Wisper should get me up the hills with some reasonable input from me. 2) The Wisper has the biggest battery so should be able to assist more over the length of the journey. 3) Providing I can keep up the pace then the Wisper will get me up the hills quicker than the Pro Connect. Is point number 3 true or did I just make that up:confused: If I were to get really stuck I understand it is possible to change the rear cogs and front chainring to widen the gear range so as not to lose top end but give a bit more input at the lower end. I tend to cycle with a slow cadence anyway. The real proof of the pudding would be to try one on my route but that is not easy, there are no dealers around here. Thanks, BM.

John, I am certainly up for some input on my part. I used t be quite fit but not any more I am up for pedling all the way, I am thinking the Pro Connect geared up might be the way to go the more I consider it. I guess I am just nervous about mt fitness level. I used to run quite a fair bit and walk 40+ miles but it has been a long time. I'm 35 and about 11 stone, 5'11" so I have no excuses really. I have never been a natural cyclist ut when I was fit used to do a 40 mile round trip into Bristol one a week but it was quite flat. The route I will have now is very lumpy. I guess that I am happy to do 85% of the work on the level but would like a good 50% assitance up the hills The way I see it is the Wisper might be OK is I can provide enough input up the hills - if not it could be a dissdaster. The Pro Connect would get the job done for sure, but probably slower. BM

MattyDuck, Maybe a scooter is the way to go but resisting that at the moment. Some of the roads I comute are very fast and it is easier to keep out of the way on a bike. A faster scooter would work but then I will need to take a test and that is hastle. So, if I can get away with a bike I will. Thanks, BogMonster.