nmmelectric

Interesting. I am about to do just that, but mine is for a recumbent trike, which makes this task much easier, though still a bit complicated. The reason is that I don't want to give up the option of touring in the Highlands (camping out), and the only two plausible kits (TSDZ2 and Photon) are not waterproof enough. I know that my Schlumpf Mountain Drive is, and that I can't get up serious hills without one or the other.

The following is a sticky thread on this forum, and contains links to the details: https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/pedelec-law-the-details.37594/ Or, for an authoritative version: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/all?title=Pedal%20Cycles

The law also specifies how the power must be measured, albeit obscurely; a claimed rating is not enough. I can't understand why you have so much difficulty understanding that simple fact.

Yes. Also, I don't know what Amazon's E-cargo vehicles are, technically, but I will bet that they at least bend the law pretty hard.

I am not. My head is higher than the top of my wife's sport's car. And, yes, I have such a beacon, though light it only when needed.

You may well be. For extra giggles, consider my recumbent trike; the EU regulation does not apply because of its seating height (nor does some of the UK law), so what law DOES apply? Almost certainly the last.

They assuredly can, and do. It is often delegated to councils, but the police still have the power to do so. Now, enforcing the law on non-pavement footpaths gets a lot more 'interesting', but that's a whole other thread. Harking back to the original post, I went to see the TSDZ2B and CYC Photon yesterday, and neither have a UK-legal plate or marking. I believe that the Bafang does, but have not seen its marking. I have not seen Shimano's or Bosch's, either, for that matter. That is important, because it is one of the things that the policemen are likely to be instructed to check if there is a crackdown, which is not unlikely where I live. It is massively unclear whether an owner/installer is permitted to mark a motor (correctly) himself; flecc may be able to clarify. I am going to enquire further about the Photon's legality, where there are a lot of other potential issues.

I am (but that's because it is my name) My trike would cost 8K to replace (I paid 6.5K in 2016), but good recumbent trikes are speciality items and expensive. My first investigations into this area were c. 2015 for my traditional roadster, and it would have made an impressive ride-everywhere E-bike! Unfortunately, my balance degraded too badly, so I had to give it up. A new STEPS trike from ICE would cost 10K. It's a lot of money, especially as I don't know how long I would use it for. Appropriate kits would cost between 1K (TSDZ2B) and 2K (CYC Photon).

That was exactly my reaction when I tried one.

Because I want the cycle to respond to my effort, not just to go faster. I am not worried about working hard - just that 'hard' for me is now much less than it used to be.

Indeed. When I was a mere lad of 70, I was looking for a road-legal hub motor that would be geared for assistance at under 5 MPH, because my problem then was hills of above 15%. I failed to find one. However, six years on and chemotherapy later, having lost 30% of my power, I am now looking for a road-legal torque-assist to make me feel as if I were 70 again I don't mind averaging under 5 MPH when touring in places like the West Country and Highlands, but it's not great where I live. I find your story of your Bafang interesting and impressive - it is one of the best but, unfortunately, does not have torque assist.

Fine. In which case, it isn't legal for use on UK roads. The slowest I (or most people) can ride with a 20" bottom gear is 2.4 MPH (40 RPM), and 500 Kg up a 15.5% slope at that speed is c. 800 watts. The law states clearly that an EAPC motor must not be able to maintain more than 250 watts for 30 minutes. A bottom gear of 6" (to reduce it to 250 watts) would just be plain silly (as well as infeasible, because I couldn't get the parts), because I wouldn't be able to pedal at more than 6 MPH in top gear! This thread contains everything you need to know, including a link to EN 15194. https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/pedelec-law-the-details.37594/ And, no, I could not fit an intermediate drive on my trike, because there is nowhere to put it.

You mean this one? https://www.heinzmann-electric-motors.com/en/products/bicycle-wheel-hub-motors/cargopower

And everyone's experience on another (mainly USA) forum I have frequented for some years. The people who do serious hill-climbing universally say that 250 W hub motors do not cut the mustard. I should also be fascinated to know how you fit a hub motor and hub gears into the same wheel, unless they are integrated by the manufacturer.

That's impressive.

That is an understatement! The legislation on what is allowed to be used on restricted roads (including bridleways) is at least as bad, and they have used the words 'road' and 'cycle' incompatibly in different places. And let's not mention the wording of the 1835 act (before bicycles!), some of which has been superseded by common law.... I collated everything that I could find at one time, but made several mistakes, and found a good many places where lawyers could have a field day arguing over which wording superseded what. So thank you for your posts - I am no wiser but perhaps better informed.

There is no need to be offensive. I want to be able to get 140 Kg up at least a 200 m height 25% slope (and can provide only 100 watts myself), which is one problem with UK road-legal hub motors. That's over 90 nm at the hub, and 450 watts for over 8 minutes at a cadence of 60 rpm, or a more moderate power for 12.5 minutes at a cadence of 40 rpm. Hub motors don't like that sort of thing much, and I don't like the latter much! The other is that I am not going to downgrade my Rohloff to a derailleur.

Why do you say that of The reasons are obvious in most cases, but why do you say that of this one? https://electric-bike-conversions.co.uk/

Yes. Very relevant to me, and why I have decided that going (solely) to an electric recumbent trike (which I ride) is a Bad Idea. I don't want to give up the option of touring in the Highlands, which means allowing for heavy, driving rain, and the trike standing outside in it overnight, for up to a fortnight. It seems that no electric cycle system is adequate for such use. Some of Shimano's advertising indicates that it is, but reading their fine print, warranty and their record of handling failures indicates not. That's a serious problem for people who want to use a pedelec as their sole form of transport, especially in the west. IP54 is a joke for such use - IPx5 is the bare minimum, and IPx6 would be much better. But, except for heavy or driving rain, fords and flooded roads, IP54 (and hence Bosch) is probably fine. I am looking into the possibility of a replaceable boom - most people would need separate fair and fine weather bicycles. Or a car :-(