JimB

Bikes finally arrived last Friday and been out on them twice this week - 16 miles of pretty flat trail then another which was cut short when, after a rapid ascent of the steepest slope I've ever cycled up, my bike stuck in its lowest gear and started flashing it's one blue eye at me - well the 'Harmony' controller actually. Pedalled a couple of miles back to the car with cadence of about 200! If all else fails RTFM! But with three of them and over a hundred pages I'd missed the simple instruction to hold down the 'harmony' selector for 5 or so seconds to enable the system to calibrate itself which it did when eventually back in the home street. First impressions are - GREAT! Easy to pedal with zero assistance, extremely quiet and no messing around with gears (apart from the above). Only done 4 miles with heart rate monitor but first impressions again are excellent. Was going to do a longer solo run tomorrow with more demanding terrain but Matt from 50 Cycles is coming over to fit a replacement controller on my wife's bike as the original arrived with a cracked casing...but hope to assemble enough info for a more detailed (if somewhat non technical) appraisal soon. Jim

Only a few days to go now I'm told. Jim

Not much use to you yet Dave (as usual) but I've got a couple (Nuvinci Harmony) on order from Kalkhoff and have just been told I (we!) should have them within 7 days or so and weather permitting I then hope to engage in some serious testing. Having the benefit of having two batteries should allow me the luxury of being able to test range in various conditions without having to risk cycling up Peak District Alps without power - at least until the other half discovers she's got a new bike in the garage! Jim

Nice one Alex! Only trouble is.......gave away our push bikes and still no sign of the electric ones! Jim

This is the one I have; Atera STRADA DL 2 to 3 bike carrier (UK lights) no. AR2602. ...which does exactly what it claims. I see they have one promoted for electric bikes now; Atera STRADA E-bike 2 bike carrier (UK lights) no. AR2686. ..which looks exactly the same as mine but probably can't be extended to 3 bikes (not that you would try to put 3 electric bikes on the back!). Easy to fit and remove and will tilt back easily even with the bikes on to allow easy access to the boot. Click through to the fitting video. Jim

Check the 'C' description. A 20C battery can be safely discharged at up to 20 X it's nominal capacity and a 130C at 130 X. So a 5000mAh 20C pack can deliver 20 x 5 amps = 100 amps and the same capacity 130C could deliver 130 x 5 amps = 650 amps. The higher the 'C' rating the higher the performance of the cells (in theory at least) therefore at higher cost. Jim

It's Severn Trent Water who control that. It is indeed a fabulous cycling area; Peak District Cycling Hub Derwent, Cycle Hire Centre, Bike Routes The information Centre there is run by employees of Severn Trent Water who may not be personally motivated to respond. There is also an established bike hire firm on the site of the main car park (Fairholme); Derwent Cycle Hire: Peak District National Park Authority JimB

Alex - I love gadgets and learning how to do 'things' but I have to say that reading your on-going story of this project usually depressed me as I could empathise with your frustration. I am pleased to say that I also empathise with your obvious relief that the job is finished (apart from some tinkering) and quite justifiable pride in what you have achieved. Fantastic! JimB

Gee whiz Alex, this looks highly impressive! Does all this stuff require any cooling? Jim

Me too! JimB

Trouble is a pound of olive oil holds about 3,620 calories. Unfortunately 'health' and calorific values are not always good bed fellows. JimB

But if you've got the 'Think Bike' sticker on your car Eaglerider it's OK....it's like having the habit officially on prescription:cool: Some thoughts on the Pedelec badges; e-bikers do it with batteries! AC/DC e-Cyclist unplugged For some areas of the North - e-up me duck e-bikers keep going longer! Maybe not:eek: JimB

A couple of weeks ago I went into James' in Chesterfield and found they had 3 / 4 Trek / Giant e-bikes. When I asked if they had any details about them the reply was 'no mate, it's on the web site but best go to the manufacturers site and have a look....' And retailers winge that the internet is killing their businesses! I ended up doing a 400 mile tour in the car to have a look at some. BTW, I know it's true about Yorkshire complainers - I worked in Sheffield for a number of years...and even worse have to watch 'Look North' for local news! Welcome to the forum by the way. JimB

Sometime just after the middle of the month I believe. I'm champing at the bit! Jim

Nice one Alex! Lidl and Aldi do various types of polycarbonate sports sun glasses as part of their offers. Aldi had simple ones in last week @£4 or thereabouts and I bought a couple of pairs. If you have an Aldi handy it might be worth a look to see if they have any left. They are not large items and are a comfortable fit. Jim

Thanks for your posts Alex. I've been out most of the day - Aldi twice this morning hoovering up Bike stuff (no yellow jersey though) and a drive up into the hills this afternoon for a walk round Dam Buster territory in the Derwent Valley - turned out to be 7 miles which is as much as I want to walk but it turned out to be also part of a cycle route and looks ideally suited to some real tests of the bikes when they arrive. I was still researching bikes yesterday and found a thread where someone was trying to make a decision and a forum Sage (might have been d8veh) said something along the lines of ...do all the research you can and then, if you still can't make up your mind, buy the one you most like the look of. I think I did a fair bit of research and the folks on here have been inordinately patient and helpful bearing mind the constant stream of newbies all asking pretty much the same questions (including me). But in the end something has to swing it and in my case the brand's reps were helpful (as were others) and actually made an effort to encourage me to buy.....and then it was down to what I liked the best from those that had the spec I wanted. 50 Cycles have their first pair of Ergo demonstrators (with cross bars) arriving any minute and did offer another test ride at Loughborough. I just can't be bothered any more but just mention it in case any one else is interested in these things and want to have a go on one. I didn't choose this bike because it had the target heart rate feature but because it was the only Nuvinci I could get from them which was available with the bigger frame and tyres, but since placing the order I've got a lot more interested in using that feature so it'll be interesting to see how that works out. It might actually produce a much more useful ride if the machine is aiming to achieve a certain heart rate (it doesn't have to that high) rather than a preselected cadence rate. Anyway, we'll see. JimB Edit: Ironically it was the maladjusted Nexus 8 which finally moved me firmly into the Nuvinci camp. I know it would probably have been the work of a few minutes to adjust them but it happened when I was starting to become very weary of the time and effort I'd put in narrow the choices and it just one of those 'Oh bo**locks to it' moments. Time will tell whether that was a good thing or not.

Alex, I bet your guest's been wandering around trying to figure out where the smell of rotting fish is coming from! Jim

Blimey Jonah, looks like you might have crushed a few grapes on the way there! Could be an interesting ride, without the grape crushing wheels, for visitors to the area. JimB

Jonah, you sure know how to give us old codgers palpitations Yes, I've checked the paperwork and we have ordered 50cm step-thru which has 28" wheels anyway and a 46cm step-thru with 28" wheels which Scott at 50 Cycles kindly put in a special order for. I just picked the first link I found - for the spec and picture. I'll certainly post my genuine impressions of the bike, including the target heart rate feature just as soon as it arrives and I've had a proper opportunity to assess it. They'd better be good! JimB

Having enjoyed using the Nuvinci Harmony gears on the test ride but looking for front suspension forks and 28" wheels a decision was made which unfortunately involved even more cash (or at least 12 months interest free finance!) with the choice of Kalkhoff Impulse Ergo Nuvinci Harmony; Kalkhoff Impulse Ergo NuVi Harmony 45cm TI 26" I'll have to wait a couple of weeks or so but maybe the post purchase depression will have faded by then. JimB

Yes Alex, we did but the tests were nothing like exhaustive and I'm loath to come to many conclusions but here are a few impressions. We test rode the Agattu I8 HS Stepthru and the Sahel i360 Harmony Stepthru. I had previously expressed a preference for bikes with 28" wheels but they both had 26". The location of the 50Cycles unit in Loughborough is such that whilst easy to find and park (Driving Test Centre appears to be co-located so plenty of 'L' plates manoeuvring in the car park) the only route nearby which had any hills involved at least initial departure using a busy and hazardous looking main road the my co rider refused at the first fence. That left a nice clear but very flat cycle path leading out in two directions but we tore up and down the part which led to the station a few hundred yards away after a while manoeuvring around the car park areas. The i8 had the Nexus 8 speed hub (no Alfines yet) and unfortunately it was maladjusted so gear changing was largely an unpleasant experience accompanied by snatching pedals and crunching noises from the back end. That notwithstanding the rode well but have no idea what sort of turn of speed I managed as it doesn't come with any controller showing speed and the like. My impression was that it was a pleasant ride, or would be after the gears were adjusted and might be well suited to maybe fairly undemanding riding although I think the gearing is low enough to be of real use on hills. The transmission of electric power was very smooth indeed but thinking back now even at fullish tilt in 8th gear I wasn't aware of hitting 'the wall' so either I wasn't going fast enough (gearing maybe a bit low for me?) or the run off of power was so smooth that I just didn't notice it. The i360 Harmony comes, of course, with the NuVinci Harmony hub and this has a controller fitted on the bars which indicates speed, battery usage, power setting and so on, in addition to the Nuvinci controller which the rider can toggle, via a co-located button, between cadence rate and a sort of manual gear selector albeit one which is, in theory at least, infinitely variable. In the mode where the rider selects their favoured cadence rate you just peddle away and the bike changes gear according to the conditions in order to maintain the selected cadence rate. In that mode the bike is a real 'dawdle' to ride and I have to admit that I immediately felt at home just cycling and not having to think at all about changing gear. The bike did feel as if had effective gear ratio wider than the Nexus 8 but I slipped up in not trying it in manual gear selection mode and going for the highest ratio to see what that produced. The best speed I managed was 20 mph downwind and 18 mph the other way. I have no idea what pressures the tyres were at although the battery was over half charge. I was aware of the power being off at 20 mph but my perception was that the effort required to maintain speed was no or little different to a normally geared bike. If I was being held at gunpoint and being forced to buy a bike and choice was limited to one of those two I would pick the Sahel i360 Harmony without hesitation. The experience at 50C was about as far removed as you get from being held at gunpoint however, and that's both good news and bad news. The bike and transmission were very quiet obviously more so that the Nexus 8 even without the latter's crunching gears. The ride was very comfortable on the Big Apple tyres and we both agreed that it was easily the more comfortable of the bikes to ride even though it does not have suspension forks like the I8 Nexus. If I was being held at gunpoint and being forced to buy a bike and choice was limited to one of those two I would pick the Sahel i360 Harmony without hesitation. The experience at 50C was about as far removed as you get from being held at gunpoint however, and that's both good news and bad news. When we'd finished the ride and the two bikes were parked up outside the premises I stood and looked at them (and had to remind my other half that we'd just £4,300 worth of bikes sitting outside).... (Wot? How much...and so on...). When I was looking at them my own personal view was that I wasn't looking at that sort of value. It was only this morning lying in bed that it dawned (pun almost intended) on me what was bugging me so much about them and it's that they kinda look like kids' bikes and even when riding them they don't seem to have enough 'presence' for you take them seriously. You might think that's a funny thing to say but unfortunately, for me that's my overriding feeling. We then drove over to Cambridge to have a look at the closest, to us, examples of Woosh Bikes as I've been intrigued by those, especially the crank drive Models. We hadn't phoned or booked beforehand although Hatti in Southend had told me that they had demo bikes....we got a friendly and informative welcome from Robert and his colleagues. We tried the Zephyr crank drive folder (the Sirocco CD I'd hoped to try had been sold) and standard hub drive Santana stepthru - it's the forthcoming CD version of that that I was really interested in. I'm going to cut this short as my two typing fingers are hurting already but suffice to say at the moment that I was impressed with the overall quality of these bikes, the standard Santana was adequately powered (battery was a bit low also) and very satisfactory and comfortable to ride. The little Zephyr folder with the Crank Drive was clearly in a higher league and although I wouldn't buy a folder it gave a reasonable insight into what Woosh's full size CD bikes might be capable of. There is only one reason why I didn't come home and immediately reserve two Santana CDs and that's the absence of a torque sensor. The only sensor is a crank speed sensor which detects that the rider is pedalling and then supplies power. The power is applied smoothly but does obviously vary according to what gear you have selected and it seems possible to be in a high enough gear with low cadence for the sensor to think your not pedalling (we were in a country park and not doing a lot of speeding) - and of course the bike will not know how much effort the rider is transmitting to the pedals and cannot therefore react to that. That having been said I think these bikes are good quality and very good value. In my case I feel thay may have spoiled the ship for the happorth (dunno how you spell that) of tar that the cost of installing torque sensors may have added. I know they are not that cheap but I believe this bike would appeal to a lot more people even at a higher price, if it had that. The CD bikes come with a controller which looks exactly the same as the ones fitted to the Kalkhoff Sahel i360 Harmony by the way although the Woosh bikes have the Chinese Manufacturers name on them, which matters not as the whole bike is unashamed good Chinese quality (unless they're buying their parts from Germany now). Footnote - interesting to read StuntManBob's account of his Nuvinci experience - certainly goes to show the value of getting the gearing right but glad his overall impression is also favourable. JimB

I quite like the 2013 TH9 LE Step-thru; TH9 I see it's pretty widely available on the Continent. When's the UK importer going to ship some? JimB

I enjoyed getting over to the Manifold Trail event and although brand new to the ebike experience on that day I thought the routes available were perfectly suited to trialling ebikes. Others have said the parking was good, I'm not so sure, the on road parking may have been dominated by long term parking walkers and the café area had quite limited parking which filled up soon after we arrived (earlier than the official start). Apart from that the area was busy with walkers and cyclists who hopefully were exactly the sort of people Kudos and their dealer were looking for. Being realistic, they weren't there for my entertainment but to sell bikes and only they will know whether the event came up to scratch in that respect. I would say the potential was there but after getting a rollocking from my wife for talking to Dave for so long I have to suggest that if you get stuck with verbose bores like me in future make sure you're positioned so you can always see the rest of your team. I'm told they had been frantically trying to attract your attention for some time to see a customer who was waving a large wad of notes around. When I was testing the KTM Bold I stopped halfway up the hill and chatted to another tester and swapped bikes with another pair who were also testing Kudos bikes so they could try out the Bold...but that first cyclist I was talking to wasn't Artstu by any chance? Rutland Water is a brilliant place to capture the interest of potential buyers. I wasn't there but in the past have cycled round the reservoir quite a few times with the kids. In fact we bought our 4 bikes at Rutland Cycling UK Bike Shop | Discount Road & Mountain Bikes | Rutland Cycling ....who pretty much dominate the scene. Maybe that was why you were positioned in the pub car park on the peninsula. The problem with that is that most cyclists going round the reservoir don't go down there. The places to be at Rutland Water would be in one of the big car parks but unfortunately Rutland Cycling kinda dominate those and I'm not sure if you wouldn't get run out of town if you tried to set up there. Whether there are other spots on the actual cycle tour round the water you could set up I'm not sure but there are other pubs around which may well have better locations than the one you were in. However, if I was trying to sell Kudos Cycles around there I'd be aiming to sign Rutland Cycling as an agent....with apologies to your local dealer. They seem to be well in with Giant though. JimB

Blimey - I sure got that wrong! I'm smiling...and nodding:p Dunno why, I keep getting this image of a lycra shorted bearded old cyclist peering out from behind his bush saying 'can you tell what it is yet?' JimB

You are correct AlMel...and what's more a 'Glasgow Kiss' could ruin your entire day:eek: I have to admit that I'm fascinated by the psychological element of this. Maybe it's obvious but what is it within us that drives us to give and seek recognition from particular individuals or groups? Why, for example, would we just acknowledge people with electric motors on their bikes and not other cyclists? Apart from the fact, as Alex has already pointed out, you often can't see that a bike's electric until you're passing it. Would there be sub-cliques who only acknowledge others with Sram dual drive or Nuvinci hubs (slim pickings there, I might join that lot). Do we risk upsetting other owners of ebikes who have left theirs at home and come out for a walk? This whole subject is so fraught with the danger of people feeling snubbed and being emotionally scarred for life maybe we should just include everyone and acknowledge, I don't know, lets call them 'other people'. Going back to AlMel's point (and I think Alex too admits to being a cycling lethario:p)...there is the issue of how such 'moves' will be received by the young things the subject of our attentions. Approaches from Brad Pitt lookalikes like Alex and AlMel will no doubt be welcomed but unfortunates like me will have our ears ringing with screams of 'dirty old man' or worse. 'Ows about that then? In the meantime is someone going to get some badges made for this group....how about the Pedelec Massif or Hells Angels e-Bike Chapter? JimB