"We've all got to think about the way that we drive and the way that we cycle".

 

Absolutely.

"Last week, following the death of polar scientist Katharine Giles when she was struck by a tipper lorry in Victoria, Mayor of London Boris Johnson said he wanted to ban lorries from the city unless equipped with safety features including additional mirrors and skirts that prevent cyclists from being dragged underneath.

Besides making physical safety features on lorries compulsory – the Safer Lorries, Safer Cycling campaign from the LCC (London Cycling Campaign) urges councils to adhere to minimum standards on the vehicles they and their contractors use.

It has also released a design of a Safer Urban Lorry"

New satnav system warns lorry drivers in London that they are approaching cyclist 'hotspots' | road.cc

The comment about companies paying more attention to health and safety (i.e. on-site) risk than road risk is very telling; most construction sites wouldn't allow a truck to reverse without a banksman, yet on the road that would be accepted. I know it's not the issue here, but the point is there are situations where a truck cannot be safely operated by the driver alone.

 

I've said elsewhere, possibly on this forum, that I think there's a case for all trucks in defined areas to carry a trained lookout - just as a barge on a river does. Maybe not all hours of the day, but certainly at peak times in city centres. That lookout could be picked up on entry to the zone, just like a pilot as a ship approaches a harbour. His/her job would be to physically look down the side of the truck and both check that it's clear and hurl warnings/abuse at anyone stupid enough to get in the way.

 

If technology can make the lookout unnecessary then fair enough - but it would need to be permanently fitted to the trucks, most of which go nowhere near busy city centres. If a truck driver could avoid London he would! Drivers dread being involved in this kind of situation and I'm sure most would welcome some help.

 

No amount of fancy lights will fix the issue.

It'd seem there's an opportunity here, for some young streetwise entrepreneurs to set up a nice little business.

 

Could be run much like a courier business, with "banksmen" available for pickup on street corners, contacted by mobile phone.

.. companies paying more attention to health and safety (i.e. on-site) risk than road risk is very telling; most construction sites wouldn't allow a truck to reverse without a banksman, yet on the road that would be accepted.. the point is there are situations where a truck cannot be safely operated by the driver ..there's a case for all trucks in defined areas to carry a trained lookout.. certainly at peak times in city centres.. His/her job would be to physically look down the side of the truck and both check that it's clear, ( #give#) warnings to anyone in the way. (& Apply Brakes if necessary, eh?)

 

If technology can make the lookout unnecessary..(mandatorily), permanently fitted to the trucks, most of which go nowhere near busy city centres. If a truck driver could avoid London he would! Drivers dread being involved in this kind of situation..

No amount of fancy lights will fix the issue.

 

Great post Chris, you have hit a lot of nails on the head. I amended it to remove *inappropriate * content and hopefully improve it.

1. H&S requires a lookout on site, public road users deserve same protection. Possible legal challenge of Mayor has been mooted, on grounds of bike lanes being negligently inadequate, this issue is another angle.

2. Technology - A Mandatory, Heads Up Display, based on smartphone type 'Virtual Vision' where linked cameras around truck could give driver 360deg view 'x-ray vision '. Tested regularly. Infrared & UV as well as regular leds in marker lights will help cams pick out cyclists & pedestrians better (see Bus lights).

3. Routing - SatNav requires driver to take the *safest * route, avoiding 'hot-spots', 'b-road/back street shortcuts ', minimum of left turns and not through city at all, if possible.

4. Carrot - Drivers could earn 'City Points' for avoiding city even when it's cheapest route. SatNav verified, but how its funded, operated I can't figure, any suggestions?

5. Less Truck runs necessary if 44tonners? used instead of 37ton rigids, sites mandatorily upgraded to take them. And artics damage road less, yes? Mayor to arrange use of Freight Trains & Tunnels to take bulk material and spoil loads off roads and over to 1000ton River Barges.

6. Driver Welfare - truckers must be protected from unscrupulous bosses forcing them to take too many loads = too many hours. Whistle-blowers help line, confidential and able to get them counselling without prejudicing their career.

Phew, I'm all posted out! . Cheers, Mike

Clearly, there are a lot of things that can be done, and the idea of 'Banksmen' seems very good. At least, give them a trial. They could even have loud speakers on the left hand side of the lorry to warn cyclists.

But in many cases, we have to accept that it is the cyclists at fault for getting into a dangerous position in the first place.

I wonder how many of these dangerous cyclists have driving licences? they seem blithely unaware of the dangers that most drivers would spot a mile off.

Like you Mike I agree with the post from Chris, and some of your points are valid and possible. But to implement those that are practical takes a long time and you haven't said a single word about anyone, including the cyclists themselves, doing anything about their often appallingly dangerous behaviour.

 

Even if everything you've mentioned were implemented, there would be little reduction in the London cyclist deaths since some would still dive from invisibility into danger in less than a second. No matter what you do to trucks a driver cannot be looking into mirrors and 360 degree viewscreens all the time, he actually has to spend some time driving the truck and looking elsewhere.

 

On board passenger lookouts are a good idea, but even they would not prevent all the deaths since the sighting of a cyclist, the warning to the driver and the driver reaction would easily add up to the mere second or less the worst idiot cyclists take to get themselves into trouble.

 

This issue needs a sense of perspective, cyclist deaths even in London are extraordinarily low, less than one in 10 million cycle journeys. There are limits to how much can be spent to reduce deaths, and as harsh as it may seem, governments have to make sensibly balanced decisions. The cost of all your proposals which might just save 4 to 6 lives annually are astronomic and therefore make no sense. That is why they haven't happened and why they never will.

What no-one mentions is the need to keep speed up on a cycle. Unlike a motor vehicle, where a momentary slowing down is quickly rectified with a twitch of the foot, a bike takes a lot of effort to accelerate.

Looking at some of the YouTube's of London cycling, I am left wondering just why cyclists speed into danger instead of taking a more cautious approach, and I feel that they are all in such a rush compared with Dutch cyclists, that any slowing down is a no no.

Perhaps we need to encourage slower cycling.

After all, why do London commuter cyclists feel the need to dress as though they were in the Tour de France?

Even here in Swansea, my son complains that his fellow workers who cycle into work, steal a quarter of an hour after arrival while they shower and change, then at going home time, they start 10 minutes early so that they can get changed.

It is this foolish sporting need that leads to high speeds, cutting corners, taking up dangerous positions etc.

Compare this to Holland, where people cycle at 10 mph in their ordinary clothes, and take far more care at hazards.

After all, why do London commuter cyclists feel the need to dress as though they were in the Tour de France?

It's the shops. For years now bike shops have been faced with the same questions and given the same answers that profit them the most. Is very rare you will go into a bike shop and be told "don't buy this, it's rubbish" or "this cheaper one is just as good". When you ask in london bike shops they always aim you at the roadie expensive stuff as it brings in the most profit.

 

bike noob: "hi, I'm new to cycling but I really want the best stuff, will be cycling on roads to work and back, what do I want/need?"

sales person: "well you will want one of these road bikes or a hybrid, some of these jerseys, these cycling shoes, high vis, this light set is on special offer, this D lock we are selling for £15, one of those hats over there whatever matches your clothes, that will be £££"

bike noob: "will this keep me safe on the road?"

sales person: "yes, we sell lots of high vis jackets and most people buy these lights they really make you visible on the road"

bike noob: "awesome, I'm going to get to work so fast now"

sales person: "awesome, I made my months commision tucking this guy right up"

 

I forget which shop it was but one of them got slammed before for running a huge ad campaign for high vis and lights on the back of a death.

What no-one mentions is the need to keep speed up on a cycle. Unlike a motor vehicle, where a momentary slowing down is quickly rectified with a twitch of the foot, a bike takes a lot of effort to accelerate.

 

If that is a problem to any cyclist, then I'd say get an e-bike.

 

Its worth noting that the crowded roads of cities are not race tracks. If you wish to keep up a fast pace without slowing then get out on an open road.

What no-one mentions is the need to keep speed up on a cycle. Unlike a motor vehicle, where a momentary slowing down is quickly rectified with a twitch of the foot, a bike takes a lot of effort to accelerate.

Looking at some of the YouTube's of London cycling, I am left wondering just why cyclists speed into danger instead of taking a more cautious approach, and I feel that they are all in such a rush compared with Dutch cyclists, that any slowing down is a no no.

Perhaps we need to encourage slower cycling.

After all, why do London commuter cyclists feel the need to dress as though they were in the Tour de France?

Even here in Swansea, my son complains that his fellow workers who cycle into work, steal a quarter of an hour after arrival while they shower and change, then at going home time, they start 10 minutes early so that they can get changed.

It is this foolish sporting need that leads to high speeds, cutting corners, taking up dangerous positions etc.

Compare this to Holland, where people cycle at 10 mph in their ordinary clothes, and take far more care at hazards.

 

I wish I could award multiple "Likes" to this post, since it is so precisely relevant to the problem.

I wish I could award multiple "Likes" to this post, since it is so precisely relevant to the problem.

 

I'll go +1 on that. Speed is certainly another dimension to the problem, and almost certainly in my view this reluctance to lose momentum is what antagonises motorists the most, resulting in all cyclists being tarred with the same brush. But I don't think all the lgv/cyclist deaths can be attributed to speed; diminished hazard perception and road awareness on the part of cyclists still remain the most significant factor, and all the gadgets in the world attached to as many vehicles as you like won't alter that. On our overcrowded roads, a well developed sense of self preservation is the cyclists best defence. Suitable training would help develop that

It's the shops. For years now bike shops have been faced with the same questions and given the same answers that profit them the most. Is very rare you will go into a bike shop and be told "don't buy this, it's rubbish" or "this cheaper one is just as good". When you ask in london bike shops they always aim you at the roadie expensive stuff as it brings in the most profit.

 

bike noob: "hi, I'm new to cycling but I really want the best stuff, will be cycling on roads to work and back, what do I want/need?"

sales person: "well you will want one of these road bikes or a hybrid, some of these jerseys, these cycling shoes, high vis, this light set is on special offer, this D lock we are selling for £15, one of those hats over there whatever matches your clothes, that will be £££"

bike noob: "will this keep me safe on the road?"

sales person: "yes, we sell lots of high vis jackets and most people buy these lights they really make you visible on the road"

bike noob: "awesome, I'm going to get to work so fast now"

sales person: "awesome, I made my months commision tucking this guy right up"

 

I forget which shop it was but one of them got slammed before for running a huge ad campaign for high vis and lights on the back of a death.

 

The shops are a symptom, not the cause. The problem lies with our obsession with fashion. "Need the latest, lightest, fastest ". Until cycling becomes mainstream again, as a mode of transport, and not a sport, the shops will continue to cater for the fashionistas.

On our overcrowded roads, a well developed sense of self preservation is the cyclists best defence. Suitable training would help develop that

 

Here's an idea. In London we have the congestion charge where motorists have to accept an extra imposition for the right to drive in that area.

 

None of us want to see compulsory training and testing for all cyclists, but given how potentially dangerous cycling in London's congestion can be for the unskilled, perhaps the right to cycle in London demands that cyclists be tested, and where they fall short, trained up to standard. Of course that would require photo cycling licences similar to the credit card sized driving one being produced on demand.

 

If trying this in London was successful in greatly reducing accidents, the same could be adopted by other major urban centres where a cycling safety problem existed.

 

On the basis that turkeys wouldn't vote for Christmas I doubt cyclists would be happy with this proposal and I admit that it has an element of punishing the innocent to deal with the guilty.

Here's an idea. In London we have the congestion charge where motorists have to accept an extra imposition for the right to drive in that area.

 

None of us want to see compulsory training and testing for all cyclists, but given how potentially dangerous cycling in London's congestion can be for the unskilled, perhaps the right to cycle in London demands that cyclists be tested, and where they fall short, trained up to standard. Of course that would require photo cycling licences similar to the credit card sized driving one being produced on demand.

 

If trying this in London was successful in greatly reducing accidents, the same could be adopted by other major urban centres where a cycling safety problem existed.

 

On the basis that turkeys wouldn't vote for Christmas I doubt cyclists would be happy with this proposal and I admit that it has an element of punishing the innocent to deal with the guilty.

 

Yes, but:(

I would prefer a solution that doesn't involve more regulation. For the life of me I can't think of one - your idea does at least offer the advantage that the ball would be firmly thrown back into the motorists court.

.

1...

2. Technology - A Mandatory, Heads Up Display, based on smartphone type 'Virtual Vision' where linked cameras around truck could give driver 360deg view 'x-ray vision '. Tested regularly. Infrared & UV as well as regular leds in marker lights will help cams pick out cyclists & pedestrians better (see Bus lights).

3...4...5...6.. . Phew, I'm all posted out! . Cheers, Mike

 

"TfL to trial 360-degree cameras on lorries in bid to end blind spots (+ video)

 

Technology from ASL360 already being tested on a London bus; makers say "vehicle visibility issues are no longer an excuse"".

TfL to trial 360-degree cameras on lorries in bid to end blind spots (+ video) | road.cc

"TfL to trial 360-degree cameras on lorries in bid to end blind spots (+ video)

 

Technology from ASL360 already being tested on a London bus; makers say "vehicle visibility issues are no longer an excuse"".

TfL to trial 360-degree cameras on lorries in bid to end blind spots (+ video) | road.cc

Great news for buses but fitting £3000 worth of gear onto most other things just isn't going to happen, foreign trucks and all sorts on the roads so only a handful of companies will adopt them.

 

Cynical I know but it's the truth, that or lots of wrecked delivery trucks and other trucks not worth modifying will soon be for sale.

Boris will, no doubt, soon be levying a "Cycle London" congestion-type charge on bikes using city roads, to pay for this to be implemented.

I don't believe that 360 degree cameras will make any significant difference. The problem is whether the driver actually looks. Blind spots are just an excuse,which let him/her off the hook. Any driver that looks will see the cyclist coming before he/she goes into any blind spot. What about when they're driving along? Don't they see cyclists going up the inside of every other vehicle? Hello!

fit a proper loud electric horn/siren - that'll get the driver's attentention.

fit a proper loud electric horn/siren - that'll get the driver's attentention.

Weirdly most drivers associate a siren with pulling towards the curb to give way, you certainly don't want to fit a siren.

Any driver that looks will see the cyclist coming before he/she goes into any blind spot.

 

As I've repeatedly posted, a driver cannot be looking into mirrors, video screen etc every single second through a left turn manouvre, and in just one second many of the faster London commuting cyclists can come from out of view behind a large vehicle into a danger area ahead of the rear wheels alongside. In less than two seconds any can. These are not open road conditions we are speaking of, these are conditions of cyclists swarming all over the place, both sides of vehicles, overtaking each other etc with drivers unable to watch their constant shifts in all the mirrors all the time. It's the sheer manouverability of bikes in traffic which puts them in special danger.

 

Cyclists haven't been exempted from taking notice of left turn indicators, they aren't exempted from the general rule that one should never overtake at junctions, especially on the left, but one would think they had been from simple observation in London. Like all other road users, they have to be responsible for their own safety by behaving sensibly in relation to other vehicles.

As I've repeatedly posted, a driver cannot be looking into mirrors, video screen etc every single second through a left turn manouvre, and in just one second many of the faster London commuting cyclists can come from out of view behind a large vehicle into a danger area ahead of the rear wheels alongside. In less than two seconds any can. These are not open road conditions we are speaking of, these are conditions of cyclists swarming all over the place, both sides of vehicles, overtaking each other etc with drivers unable to watch their constant shifts in all the mirrors all the time. It's the sheer manouverability of bikes in traffic which puts them in special danger.

 

Cyclists haven't been exempted from taking notice of left turn indicators, they aren't exempted from the general rule that one should never overtake at junctions, especially on the left, but one would think they had been from simple observation in London. Like all other road users, they have to be responsible for their own safety by behaving sensibly in relation to other vehicles.

I think it's often missed just how many cyclists we are talking about. Here is some random guys random commute, the first half gives you a good idea of how many cyclists to expect in rush hour traffic with an average of 5 or so cyclists passing/bunching up each time the lights change. Some places at certain times you can find the entire advanced stop box full of cyclists.

 

[video=youtube;_xNGc3dZpKU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xNGc3dZpKU

Another great one, even if a cyclist has been knocked down infront some lemming on a bike will ride into the gap before the other is even standing.

 

[video=youtube;vrlftYfKDk8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrlftYfKDk8

 

Had it been a HGV instead of a small van would the cyclist act any differently? I doubt it given the dance with buses.

Yeah, risky ducking & diving. Strange manoeuvres by the buses too. First in outside lane turning hard left into inside lane, presumably for bus stop. Did driver forget they have to be in inside lane to pick up/drop off passengers? And the second in bus lane turning hard right into outside lane, presumably trying to overtake yet another bus. So apparently bad bus driving too. Now if the bike path went behind the bus stops!

Edited December 19, 201312 yr by MikeyBikey