July 15, 201411 yr It is a 'grey' area, which the police having looked at a decade or so ago and found unrewarding tend to leave alone. One thing that helps to cause confusion for the police and others is the existence of the "Low Powered Moped" class. This is for pedal assisted two wheelers up to 1000 watts but still limited to an assist speed of 15mph. That class should be registered and plated of course, but one can see the confusion caused by the multipicity. E-bikes under UK law only permitted 200 watts, but through a waiver permitted the EU 250 watts. Low powered mopeds with pedal assist. Mopeds in the 30mph P1 class. Mopeds capable of higher speeds in the motorcycle class. And of course the differing ages permitted for various types and powers of two wheelers, 14, 16, 17, 21 etc. For a police officer who needs to know the existence of a vast range of laws pertaining to all forms of human activity, our area is a very minor issue and the welter of confusion within it is enough to put most off of even getting involved.
July 15, 201411 yr Author In that case once again, the Law is an Ass. I can ride a class 3 mobility Scooter, which is far heavier far more unwieldy, on road and pavement . On the road I can go only 8mph which quite frankly is Dangerous. Try getting across a busy junction at that for max speed along with the pathetic torque these rip off machines have. With The Bike I use mostly the bike lanes where I live nobody objects, many people have stopped and asked me about the bike and feel they have had a glimpse of the future. I can take my Dogs out in the country park next door (it is full of Bike paths). The local police pass me on their bikes occasionally and say hi. A mobility scooter couldn't possibly handle the surface on those fields the Bike can...so woop de doo back to the sofa Shambolic..if you notice I put like on your posting and agree with all you say.....except I cannot sell these bikes legally in the circumstances that you want to use them....I could import them and get type approval but then you could only use them on the public highway as a moped,from your postings I assume that would not be attractive to you? That is the dilemma,if I do the job properly and legally I will always be at a disadvantage to the companies who are selling illegal bikes. It would be better if these companies did not openly tout for business from 14 year old teenagers,after all if you are going to put 800 watts into these bikes and be illegal,you might as well put 1600 watts and make them 45mph bikes,for that is the norm in China. I am sure you ride your bike responsibly but within the hundreds of these illegal bikes and scooters sold every year,there must be some irresponsible riders. KudosDave
July 15, 201411 yr Author GUIDE TO UK LAW http://eriderbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Front-LeftE-150x150.jpg Anyone 14 years or older can ride the E RIDER on the road Younger riders may use the E RIDER off road The E RIDER is not subject to Vehicle Excise Duty A driving licence is not required to operate the E RIDER The E RIDER does not require an MOT Insurance is not legally required for the E RIDER The E RIDER does not need to be registered with the DVLA The E RIDER may be used in bus lanes and on cycle paths A helmet is not legally required when operating the E RIDER * The E RIDER is not liable to parking fines or congestion charges An E RIDER is not required to provide a breath or blood sample * How can any right thinking person think this is a bicycle! The spec says 39kg and 200W of power yeh!! Kudosdave
July 15, 201411 yr If it has two wheels, usable pedals, a motor of 200W or less, weighs less than 40kg, a speed less than 15 mph, then it's a bicycle regardless of what your paradigms make you think one should look like. The only question is whether it meets those criteria. Whether it does or doesn't is probably not as important as having a plate or piece of paper that says it does as far as the police are concerned, but if an unhappy customer thought it didn't meet those criteria, so went to trading standards, life could be a bit difficult for the seller. As a slight aside, Barnes and Robinson used to sell electric scooters and bikes, but their website now says "closed" and they've de-registered from Ebay. Does anybody know what happened to them?
July 15, 201411 yr Author Dave,I think they were exhibiting at the NEC cycle show last year,very cheap bikes as I remember. Dave
July 15, 201411 yr That was two years ago when they just started with electric bikes. Before that they sold tools.
July 15, 201411 yr another one bites the dust? phone disconnected, online shop disconnected. It goes to show that the UK market is a very tough nut. About Welcome to Barnes and Robinson, Electric Bicycles and Electric Road Scooters. Please check out our website! www.barnesandrobinson.com Tel:- 01772 285528 Description Two years in the making, we now believe we have got the best quality/value electric bikes on the market. Offering beautiful finished, great performing bikes, to run along side our popular electric road scooters. All our products are guaranteed, fully UK certified and road legal with a full range of spare parts and after sale commitment here in the UK. All products delivered for FREE direct to your door.
July 15, 201411 yr A previous stated law case about a similar type of bike failed the test in law due to the fact that the bike could not operate as a bicycle when unassisted.
July 15, 201411 yr another one bites the dust? phone disconnected, online shop disconnected. It goes to show that the UK market is a very tough nut. They might have closed because they made a fortune and retired to the Bahamas, or they might have sold their business for a million pounds to some other dealer that's looking to expand.
July 15, 201411 yr There is a brief explanation of electric scooter laws on the AtoB website via this link http://www.atob.org.uk/electric-motorbikes-scooters/electric-motorbike-scooter-licensing-laws/
July 15, 201411 yr That's a good guide John, but they haven't included the "Low Powered Moped Class", probably because they've never knowingly come across any of these up to 1000 watt pedal assisted machines. We'll have to do some more learning once the EU classifications are accepted, there being various L1 classes. Currently S class e-bikes are L1e-A and mopeds up to 50cc or 4 kW are L1e-B. .
July 15, 201411 yr They might have closed because they made a fortune and retired to the Bahamas, or they might have sold their business for a million pounds to some other dealer that's looking to expand. most e-bike dealers don't have a million pounds or if they do, some are known to put it in a boat! seriously, on the continent, most e-bikes are sold by the largest LBSes in town but in the UK, our LBSes don't want us fatsos to come into their shops and spoil the sporty look of the displays so it's left to the 'specialists' to supply e-bikes. Not good.
July 15, 201411 yr if the size of the market gets over 50,000 a year, the big LBSes will open their doors to e-bikes and it'll be exponential growth, we have more fatsos than our neighbours.
July 15, 201411 yr if the size of the market gets over 50,000 a year, the big LBSes will open their doors to e-bikes and it'll be exponential growth, we have more fatsos than our neighbours. :confused:Our neighbours are quite slim.
July 15, 201411 yr Author I did a bit more internet searching and it looks like the e-moped and e-scooter markets are split between those who are doing it properly and those who are trying to cheat the rules. One who is doing it properly is Zippe Electric Scooters,www.zippe.co.uk. So it is not necessary to be illegal,according to Zippe website they charge £70 to complete the DVLA registration on your behalf. Those who are trying to cheat are largely on e-bay and often don't reveal a home address on their websites. All seems a bit of a minefield, but you don't have to be illegal. KudosDave
July 17, 201411 yr Author Shambolic.....I looked up the bike that I thought was same as yours,made by Nicom ......alibaba website 'nicom.en.alibaba.com' The bike is popular in 2 models.. Model 1)... Power 500 watt Battery 48v x 12 Ah,lithium Net weight 53kg Gross weight (I assume with battery) 63kg Restricted speed 25kph Model 2)... Power 800 watt Battery 48v x 14 Ah,lead acid Net weight 75kg Gross weight 85kg Restricted speed 25>42kph. Either someone has managed to drastically reduce the weight and cut the power or someone is not being truthful? These bikes need to be registered as e-mopeds,that is relatively easy because the bikes have EEC approval but they should be registered as e-mopeds. You can obviously read and look at the photos on the website I have stated above. Its a shame that these bikes cannot be legally classed as bicycles but that needs to be balanced with the thought that 14 year old teenagers could ride a 60kg machine down seafronts and cycle paths. I rode this bike in China with 800 watts,it carried my 17 stone around very easy and in fact i took a 50kg girl on the pillion,they are very powerful relative to even the best of our 250 watt e-bikes,but that is as you would expect. KudosDave
July 17, 201411 yr First one I looked at completley different spec: Wattage: 251 - 350w Voltage: 48V Power Supply: Storage Battery Wheel Size: 18" Motor: Brushless Certification: EEC Frame Material: Steel Foldable: No Max Speed: 30-50km/h Range per Power: 31 - 60 km Place of Origin: Zhejiang, China (Mainland) Brand Name: Nicom Model Number: TDR48K15 Model No: TDR48K15 Brand Name: Nicom Motor power: 350W Tire size: 18*2.5 inch Battery: 48V/14AH Lead-acid Max speed: 32km/h Rated loading Weight: 125KGS Climbing Degree: 15degree F/R brake: F Drum/ R Expansion brake Charge time: 6-8 Same head, different tyres different motor, how many more options are there? Also this is not the chinese manufacurer my bike came from. Note the 500w one you refer to is called 'Big Power'. I know you are determined to discredit these bikes and I'm sure you have more arguements to justify this but already I have found contrary info. I know the buyers set their specs Without my getting everything double checked by a technician, I can only work on the spec given. As I understand it many of the conventional E-bikes could be questioned in some areas too. Edited July 17, 201411 yr by shambolic
July 17, 201411 yr Author Shambolic....but I notice that you conveniently left out the weight,the max weight of an e-bike is 40kgs,that bike TDR48K15 with the lead acid battery weighs 75kgs.....it would be a very simple matter for you to weigh your bike. I dont wish to discredit these bikes,I did say that I thought the Nicom built bike was well built but it is an electric moped and should be registered as such,for highway use only. No bike weighing even 53 kilos will ride up a 1 in 6 hill,as the seller suggests,with only a 200 watt motor-commonsense says that is just not possible. Maybe,someone should put one of these bikes through SVA (VOSA)to determine the legality-if they are legal as bicycles I would love to import them and sell them as bicycles. But the feedback I am getting is that if people have to register,tax,insure,wear a helmet etc,then they would prefer to buy a moped with increased speed and range. Perhaps you could weigh your bike? KudosDave
July 17, 201411 yr I didn't 'conveniently' leave out the weight I just copied the first set of details. My point was not that this bike is within UK spec but that it was the first I saw and was completely different spec to the what you seemed to be claiming all these bikes have, thus it is reasonable to conclude that spec varies. I have enough trouble walking to the bike I've no idea how I could weigh it.
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