I just wonder about experience of others...

 

I've got a Kalkhoff Include 2016 model. I noticed a booklet, similar to the one that car owners have for regular servicing, including signing and stamping by the dealer that did servicing. Now, the booklet implies that I need to service the bicycle every 1000km, to fulfill warranty requirements. My commute is 27km one way. That's 270km per week, assuming I commute every day. With that rate, I'd have to service the bicycle every 4 weeks!!!

 

Now, servicing is about AUD 120. That means around AUD 1500 per year, for a AUD 5000 bike!! This is about 30% value of the new bike, just for servicing, every year.

 

This is not something that's prominently published on Kalkhoff's web pages. I wonder how many people would go for it, if you basically faced the possibility of voiding your warranty for a very expensive bike, by not complying to some totally unrealistic maintenance schedule? Imagine if you had a car where every year you had to fork out 30% of the car's value just to have it serviced?

 

I believe a lot of people who buy a Kalkhoff pedelec would be in a similar situation. I bought mine for commuting, where, after changing a job, my commute became too long and tiring for a regular bike. In other words, it's very likely that most pedelec users would be doing trips that, on average, are much longer compared to trips folks do on regular bikes.

 

I thought I misread something, so I wrote to Kalkhoff seeking confirmation, and, yes, that's exactly how the servicing schedule is.

TAKE IT BACK and get a different bike or point out you will need a new motor every 4 weeks and a free service.

 

Kalkhoff tried to fix it with a software up date and now glue lol

I have just bought a Kalkhoff. I didn't realize that I had to have it serviced by them in order to maintain the warranty. That is bad news.

I didn't buy it from 50Cycles, I'm in Australia.

 

I think this is really an issue. If I don't comply with this maintenance schedule, Kalkhoff, legally, has every right to refuse to fix problems I may have within the warranty period.

 

I was maintaining my old, non-electric bike, myself. Here, I have to take it to a bike shop to get it stamped, even though I know very well how to check cables, tighten bolts, change brake pads.

 

Once a year, I could accept as reasonable.

I think you have two choices:

 

1. Go back to the bike shop and get them to agree to a more sensible maintenance schedule. Tell them that you don't think it's reasonable and you'll never buy another bike from them if they're not cooperative enough to change it. Ask them why they sold you an inappropriate bike if they try and stick to the schedule.

2. Put it down to experience. Don't ever take your bike back to the shop again, and pray that it won't go wrong, though by all accounts it probably will. If it does go wrong, take it back, and if they don't fix it, threaten them with whatever consumer laws you have. Never buy another Kalkhoff and tell everybody about your experience.

 

This is a good lesson that you've taught us. It's always easier to sort out these things before you hand over your money. I think that you have to ask the question when choosing a bike from a dealer: What are the future costs I can expect to pay after purchasing? Most people wouldn't think of that, but I'll certainly be adding it to my advice to anybody in the future, so thanks for sharing.

 

One time, I was buying a motorbike from a dealer that I didn't trust to do the servicing, so I told him I would only buy it if he let me service it and he would stamp the record as if he had done it. He agreed.

If the manufacturers themselves think that their machines will need servicing every 1,000 kilometres, it does not speak very highly for the quality of the bikes or their confidence in their product.

My two Chinese bikes have done much more than this distance.

After all, the electric side does not really need anything doing to it, it is only the cycle parts such as brakes, spokes, bearings etc. that require attention and most of us can do our own.

It smacks, no reeks of profiteering and leaves a dirty taste.

d8veh, the dealer is not the one who created the service schedule; it's Kalkhoff. And while the dealer may agree to a more sensible schedule, why should they cop the cost of servicing within MANUFACTURER'S warranty period. If the manufacturer guarantees the product, then the manufacturer should foot the bill for any problems within the warranty period.

 

The problem I have is that they put a ridiculous, unrealistic condition for their acceptance of the liability for the faults within the warranty period. It really feels as an easy way out for them.

 

And d8veh, I think you made an excellent point about what should prospective buyers in this market put on their checklist when choosing an ebike.

I agree with you CW.

Some manufacturers prefer to restrict usage of their bikes to leisure ride by this mechanism. I do have some sympathy with the manufacturers though. Commuting bikes are far more exposed to weather and neglect by their owners due to lack of time and sheltered parking. The commuters themselves do not have the choice of routes,often have to put up with poor road maintenance and littering.

It's OK if manufacturers impose conditions on warranty. That's their right. Buyers' right is to make a purchasing decision accordingly. It's simply a contract, and if you're happy with conditions, then you're accepting them when you purchase the bike.

 

My problem is that these conditions were not even in a "small print", ie. the first I learned about them was when I checked documentation that arrived with the bike after the purchase. If you go to Kalkhoff's main web page and then to their warranty page, you won't see ANY mention of this. THAT'S NOT OK!

totally agreed and thank you to bring it up.

It's a shame that these 'small prints' are unknown to the vast majority of customers before purchase.

We all know that cars, motorcycles etc when bought new have to have service stamps to keep the warranty..... but most people would not even think about this when buying an Ebike.

What Kalkhoff are doing here, by not making these conditions plain to all buyers before they buy is an utter rip off, not making these conditions transparent from the outset could even be viewed as miss selling.

Ok, things are getting worse...

 

I carefully read again the warranty page quoted before. It mentions only warranty on frame. I couldn't find anything referring to the motor and, somehow, I had a figure of 2 years in my head, but couldn't remember where I got it from. Anyway, to cut the long story short, I couldn't find it on Kalkhoff's website, including downloadable manuals. Again, it was to be found in the service booklet mentioned before. There, low and behold, battery and motor are specifically excluded from the warranty, alongside other wearable parts, like tyres, brake pads, chains, etc.

 

I've sent a question to Kalkhoff about this, to confirm, but I don't think they'll contradict themselves.

 

Is this normal? Is this what other e-bike manufacturers do?

The uk warranty from kalkhoff is not the same,i have owned four S model kalkhoffs since 2011 and have covered thousands of miles on them with no servicing at the dealer.

I`ve had a few warranty claims and 50 cycles have always been very good at sorting issues out.

I have read my service booklet and couldn't find where it said that the warranty was invalid if the service schedule was not adhered to. It just recommends following the schedule.

Ok, things are getting worse...

 

I carefully read again the warranty page quoted before. It mentions only warranty on frame. I couldn't find anything referring to the motor and, somehow, I had a figure of 2 years in my head, but couldn't remember where I got it from. Anyway, to cut the long story short, I couldn't find it on Kalkhoff's website, including downloadable manuals. Again, it was to be found in the service booklet mentioned before. There, low and behold, battery and motor are specifically excluded from the warranty, alongside other wearable parts, like tyres, brake pads, chains, etc.

 

I've sent a question to Kalkhoff about this, to confirm, but I don't think they'll contradict themselves.

 

Is this normal? Is this what other e-bike manufacturers do?

 

In the user manual it states that the motor and battery are guaranteed for two years.

Tomwal, can you please provide the name of the manual and the page number or description?

 

In "Service Booklet" relevant parts are:

• page 2, chapter headed "The following are excluded from the warranty", item 2, it says: "All parts subject to function related wear and tear or ageing to a normal, expected extent, unless this is the result of a defect in the manufacturing process or material".
  
• page 3, chapter headed "The following are considered wear parts under the statutory warranty", 2nd last item in the list is battery and the last item in the list is motor.
  

I also discovered where I got the 2 year warranty figure from: I was seriously considering buying Gazelle Orange C8 electric bicycle, which comes with Impulse 2 motor, and they explicitly provide 2 year warranty (on their web site) for the battery and the motor. So, I wasn't dreaming, it was just a different manufacturer.

Panasonic very long ago set a standard of a two year warranty on their crank drive units, and others have generally followed this since.

 

As for user manual conditions, one bike I had a few years back had in the manual, "Do not ride when it's raining". In Britain!!!

.

tomwal, to answer your other question (that somehow didn't appear straight away) about servicing being recommended rather than compulsory: on page 2 of the Service Booklet, 3rd item under "The following are excluded from the warranty" says:

 

"Damage caused by incorrect or insufficient care (my emphasis) and unprofessional repairs, conversions or replacement of components on the bike".

 

I agree it doesn't state explicitly, but, if I were an independent arbitrator in a dispute, I would rule for Kalkhoff if you didn't abide by the maintenance schedule. The answer I received from Kalkhoff for my original query about the schedule, that didn't link warranty claims with adherence to servicing schedule, is this:

 

"The maintenacne schedule must be followed. It's neccessary that the services will carried out and that they will documented in the service book."

 

I've sent another question after this asking specifically about whether that is a condition for the warranty. I haven't got the answer yet.

Tomwal, can you please provide the name of the manual and the page number or description?

 

In "Service Booklet" relevant parts are:

• page 2, chapter headed "The following are excluded from the warranty", item 2, it says: "All parts subject to function related wear and tear or ageing to a normal, expected extent, unless this is the result of a defect in the manufacturing process or material".
  
• page 3, chapter headed "The following are considered wear parts under the statutory warranty", 2nd last item in the list is battery and the last item in the list is motor.
  

I also discovered where I got the 2 year warranty figure from: I was seriously considering buying Gazelle Orange C8 electric bicycle, which comes with Impulse 2 motor, and they explicitly provide 2 year warranty (on their web site) for the battery and the motor. So, I wasn't dreaming, it was just a different manufacturer.

 

If you read the English Service Manual and refer to the motor and the battery it says that they are "wear parts" and have a 2 year warranty.

 

In the service booklet it does not state that the warranty is invalidated if you do not have the bike serviced. Also on Page 6 it gives important reasons for having your bike serviced - invalidation of warranty is not among them.

 

I would go back to the shop with your concerns and I am sure they will put your mind at rest.

If there's a manufacturing defect, the statements about wear don't apply. I think you've wrongly interpreted what it says.

 

I don't know the consumer laws where you live, but in UK, the goods have to be of merchantable quality and fit for purpose, regardless is written in the warranty document. If your motor stopped working after a few months, normally, you'd be covered regardless.

 

The dealer might refuse to fix the problem if you hadn't kept up with the service schedule. It would be then up to you to prove that the fault was a manufacturing defect, which can be tricky.

 

I still think that the best option is to visit the dealer and try and agree a more reasonable service schedule. You need to get that agreement witnessed or recorded somehow. He might just come straight out and tell you not to worry about all that because they'll sort out any problems, like any good dealer normally would.

 

In the UK, all warranty claims are against the dealer under normal consumer laws. What's written in any book, website or anywhere else doesn't count, except that it gives you extra guarantees from the manufacturer, who should order another workshop to deal with problems if your normal dealer won't. Have a look at the sales documents from the dealer. Unless you signed something that says you agreed to what's written in that service book, it wouldn't count under UK law. Is there anything in your sales documents or on the supplier's website or advertising that says anything about the warranty or guarantees. That's what counts.

Tomwal, I don't have a printed service manual. I've got mine from this page, the one referring to "Pedelec Impulse Evo", Version 1, in English. I searched for the word warranty, and 2 year period is not mentioned on any page.

 

d8veh, Australia, where I bought this bike, also has consumer laws that override anything a seller may try to impose on you, with similar stipulations like the ones you quoted. In my case, I have the right to return the bike for a refund, replacement or repair, and it's my choice. However, if the failure happens later on, even during the warranty period, the rules are less clear and any side can dispute the claim from the other. If you get an arbitrator who can't tell whether servicing a bike every 1000km is reasonable or not, you may be disadvantaged, especially if you were aware of the requirement.

I don't see that it is unreasonable to expect a cycle of any type to be serviced every 1000km.

 

You haven't stated what the service work entales.

 

It could be as simple as checking nut and bolt torque settings, checking spoke tension, safe operation of brakes, visual checks for frame damage, checking free play and movement, chain wear and tear, checking tyre pressures etc. All very basic checks which aren't going to cost a fortune to carry out, and should be carried out with regular frequency anyway.

I suspect that the key argument would be who has to carry the work out. None of those checks are out of the realms of a keen cyclist, and provided that the checks are carried out by a competent person, it might then be difficult for a case to be argued against you. The crucial thing would be what constitutes a competent person.

I don't see that it is unreasonable to expect a cycle of any type to be serviced every 1000km.

 

You haven't stated what the service work entales.

 

It could be as simple as checking nut and bolt torque settings, checking spoke tension, safe operation of brakes, visual checks for frame damage, checking free play and movement, chain wear and tear, checking tyre pressures etc. All very basic checks which aren't going to cost a fortune to carry out, and should be carried out with regular frequency anyway.

I suspect that the key argument would be who has to carry the work out. None of those checks are out of the realms of a keen cyclist, and provided that the checks are carried out by a competent person, it might then be difficult for a case to be argued against you. The crucial thing would be what constitutes a competent person.

I think his point eddie is it entails £60 uk every 4 weeks to maintain by the dealer..not what they actually do for it. Annual servicing on my car works out a third of the cost.. Sorry mate but its a rip off. Regards

There are up to date manuals on kalkhoff.com. You should read them. Also you should clarify the position with your dealer. Then you should state your findings on this forum so that people know the position. It is not right to make damaging statements about a manufacturer if you are not absolutely sure of the facts.

£60.00 is not a rip off. A mechanic has to be paid for his services just like anyone else. You are not forced to have the work done. Your warranty will not be invalidated as I am sure you will find out.

The only reference to warranty I can see on the kalkahoff website seems to refer to the 10 year frame warranty and it states among other things .....

"The prescribed regular servicing must have been carried out by an authorised dealer and recorded in the service history log."

So I feel the jury is still out on home servicing...

Dare I add the beauty of cheap Chinese hub drive bikes over their more sophisticated cousins is cheapness of spares and simplicity of servicing and if eventually it gets beyond the pale they are inexpensive to replace.

Regards