Hi all.

Please note my first range test posted weeks ago...........

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/2349-pro-connect-first-range-test.html

 

Im back with the medium setting range test, though it has produced some strange outcomes as you will see.

 

Conditions.

49cm Pro-Connect.

18 tooth rear sprocket modification.

Male rider (much fitter).

5ft 11inch tall.

13stone 7lbs.

Pannier with total weight of 10lbs.

Total weight 199lbs.

Bike on medium power all the way.

 

Fully charged to dead battery based on 4 identical commutes with a few circular laps around my home until the battery eventually died.

the max hill was a 1 in 7.

 

Results....

 

22.31miles which included 2,050.72 feet of ascent.

 

 

I am a little puzzled to why i have less range by moving from high power to medium power settings?

These could be the reasons...

1. i am much more fitter now, and therefore the power in my legs is drawing more current from the batteries up steep hills.

2. My rider style has now changed and im finding myself peddling constantly during my commute to work. I do the 5.12 mile commute now in 19mins as opposed to 23mins last month.

3. I have started to have my lights on all the time on the bike now the evenings and mornings are getting darker ( I work the night shift).

 

All data came from my Garmin etrex attached to the bike.

Data was then uploaded to my PC and compiled by my Fugawi mapping software.

 

Low (Eco) power setting range in the next few weeks.

 

 

Any comparisons?

 

Regards Bob.

[ATTACH]375.vB[/ATTACH]

Edited August 25, 200817 yr by burncycle

Burncycle,

Since you are riding the bike that I am considering, I would like to ask a few questions:

1. Do the pedals freewheel, by that I mean, while the bike is moving, can you pedal the bike pedals backward?

 

2. If you are riding, can you stop pedalling for awhile, and have the motor take over, or will the motor cut out the moment you stop pedalling?

 

Thanks

Burncycle,

Since you are riding the bike that I am considering, I would like to ask a few questions:

1. Do the pedals freewheel, by that I mean, while the bike is moving, can you pedal the bike pedals backward?

 

2. If you are riding, can you stop pedalling for awhile, and have the motor take over, or will the motor cut out the moment you stop pedalling?

 

Thanks

 

Answers....

 

1. Yes, its just like a "normal bike".

2. The motor only works when you pedal ONLY.

 

Hope this helps !

Bob.

Does anyone feel that the reasons I've listed could be lowering the range then?

Feels like its falling on deaf ears.

I did study your post Bob, but I couldn't reach a conclusion due to the variables. As you've remarked, the fitness

variations might account for it, since in a completely like for like test, that wouldn't happen, higher power to do a

job almost invariably leading to heavier consumption.

 

So as near as I could get is that you are probably right about the reasons, your differences over time.

.

I did study your post Bob, but I couldn't reach a conclusion due to the variables. As you've remarked, the fitness

variations might account for it, since in a completely like for like test, that wouldn't happen, higher power to do a

job almost invariably leading to heavier consumption.

 

So as near as I could get is that you are probably right about the reasons, your differences over time.

.

 

Thanks Tony for the response.

You dont think it could or might be a battery issue?

I very much doubt it Bob, these bateries normally very consistent, hence their unique guarantee. It may be that

the lights are a bigger factor than we are allowing for, since they use an odd high voltage pulsed system to

produce an average lower voltage for the lights, and that might be a bit wasteful. It's interesting that a recent

photo of a Pro Connect showed it with a front hubdyno like that on the Agattu, so perhaps they've had second

thoughts.

 

I don't know if it's viable for you to do some more running without the lights to see what difference that makes,

though obviously please don't take any risks on that account.

.

Hi all.

I am a little puzzled to why i have less range by moving from high power to medium power settings?

These could be the reasons...

1. i am much more fitter now, and therefore the power in my legs is drawing more current from the batteries up steep hills.

2. My rider style has now changed and im finding myself peddling constantly during my commute to work. I do the 5.12 mile commute now in 19mins as opposed to 23mins last month.

3. I have started to have my lights on all the time on the bike now the

 

 

Hmm, I'll offer a slightly modified guess from [2.] in that riding intuitively you're learing to maximize the power use that you are being given (getting the most out of it in other words). Thus why, even going to medium settings, you're making the bike work harder also.

 

I'd liken it to learning to work with another person on a bicycle built for two (if that person had machine like precision ). You move naturally to use their extra energy, unless, you're really focusing on poking along, which maybe you're not doing now?

Hmm, I'll offer a slightly modified guess from [2.] in that riding intuitively you're learing to maximize the power use that you are being given (getting the most out of it in other words). Thus why, even going to medium settings, you're making the bike work harder also.

 

I'd liken it to learning to work with another person on a bicycle built for two (if that person had machine like precision ). You move naturally to use their extra energy, unless, you're really focusing on poking along, which maybe you're not doing now?

 

Thats a very differnet way to look at it, and you could well be right.

Burncycle, your findings are interesting. I have a 20-odd mile commute which until recently I covered entirely in "high-power" mode. Usually I got home with one light remaining on the battery.

 

When I tried it in "medium-power" mode, I got home with...one light remaining on the battery. What's more, the handlebar-mounted power display went from 3 to 2 lights and from 2 to 1 lights at more-or-less exactly the same places.

 

Also, I sometimes find myself changing from high- to medium-power and thinking that suddenly it's got easier. I'm not sure if this is psychological; it seems to happen more at higher speeds. For example at 20mph I seem to find it less work to ride in medium-power mode (I have an 18t pinion).

 

Conversely at 15mph it's easier in high-power mode.

 

Is it possible that somehow using a mode that is higher-power than you really need would slow you down? Some kind of resistance in the motor unit?

 

I am confused.

 

Peter

Don't forget the issue of the ratio of your effort and motor effort. At 20 mph you may be pedalling harder at the

higher speed, the motor exactly matching your input in standard mode. In High Power mode it has to give

1.3 times your input, and that could be beyond the rated power of what is a fairly small motor, so it can fail to

give the 1.3 times at that speed.

 

At 15 mph with less effort from you to maintain that speed, the motor's capability may well match 1.3 times your

effort Peter, so making the High Power mode appear more effective then.

 

This underlines that the system is designed as a 15 mph one, and changing the sprocket can mess that up as

I've mentioned previously.

.

Burncycle, your findings are interesting. I have a 20-odd mile commute which until recently I covered entirely in "high-power" mode. Usually I got home with one light remaining on the battery.

 

When I tried it in "medium-power" mode, I got home with...one light remaining on the battery. What's more, the handlebar-mounted power display went from 3 to 2 lights and from 2 to 1 lights at more-or-less exactly the same places.

 

Also, I sometimes find myself changing from high- to medium-power and thinking that suddenly it's got easier. I'm not sure if this is psychological; it seems to happen more at higher speeds. For example at 20mph I seem to find it less work to ride in medium-power mode (I have an 18t pinion).

 

Conversely at 15mph it's easier in high-power mode.

 

Is it possible that somehow using a mode that is higher-power than you really need would slow you down? Some kind of resistance in the motor unit?

 

I am confused.

 

Peter

 

That's interesting Peter, because I was very tired last night, after doing a 51 hour week and I commuted there and back in high power mode.

I couldnt help notice that I did feel that bit less of a assist than on medium power mode, apart from very steep, very short hills.

That very strange isn't it?

The first time I'd used high power in a month.

Does anyone feel that the reasons I've listed could be lowering the range then?

Feels like its falling on deaf ears.

 

Hi Burncycle,

I never use the medium setting.. always in high, so I can't comment. But thanks for your feedback It is very useful, and good to see that the Agattu outperforms the Pro connect on almost every test run, or is that the rider..

 

Seriously though, I am finding that ironically, fitness can increase battery consumption becuase the more you push in higher gears the more the battery works for you.. Its very strange..

 

Thanks again and I will post my Agattu update in due course..

 

BW

musicbooks

I think flecc is right. In medium power mode I am asking for all that the motor can give, so switching to high power mode makes no difference.

 

It doesn't explain why at higher speeds medium power mode seems to give more assistance than high power mode, though. Perhaps it's all in the mind!

 

Peter

It's possible that the current demand on the battery at high speed and high power might be chemically tiring

the cells, something often observed previously with lithium. Medium power cuts the current drain and may

permit the cells to operate within normal parameters.

.

This is all very interesting.

Getting to know the personality of the bike and battery.

I'll hopefully start the eco range testing next week when I get my bike back (dont ask why).

It would be nice to have something to sit the powered wheel in and actually measure the powered output under various conditions. Then we would have the answers!

 

Of course that would be useful for all the bikes and their battery combinations.

What sort of cadences are you all pedalling at?

 

In addition to whats been said re power, with the way power is supplied based on cadence

couldn't pedalling slower on medium power use as much or more power than pedalling faster on high power?

 

With improving fitness you could try pedalling at a higher cadence in the same power mode if you can:

that should give you more range aswell as being more efficient use of the rider's energy, and better for the knees too.

 

Stuart.

What sort of cadences are you all pedalling at?

 

In addition to whats been said re power, with the way power is supplied based on cadence

couldn't pedalling slower on medium power use as much or more power than pedalling faster on high power?

 

With improving fitness you could try pedalling at a higher cadence in the same power mode if you can:

that should give you more range aswell as being more efficient use of the rider's energy, and better for the knees too.

 

Stuart.

 

Sorry stuart, I've no idea what cadence I travel at when cycling.

I havn't got a cycle computer fitted. I use a Garmin etrex for all my computing on the bike.

Fair enough, Bob.

 

My suggestion was simply that if your pedal speed is slower on medium power than on high power

(i.e. if you're aware you're 'pushing' harder rather than 'spinning' faster on the pedals), then

the motor might be helping you more, leading to less range, similar to what prState posted, above.

 

I did notice your first test was 1 in 10 max on high power and your second 1 in 7 on medium

so the different climbing might account for some range loss?

 

The main thing I notice is that your journey is over 17% faster, so more power is coming from you & bike combined -

the range loss is quite low for the speed gain though, so I'd be happy with that and if you want more range

just increase your fitness & pedal speed and/or cut your road speed.

 

Fancy gear isn't required to work out cadence: I simply use a clock/watch to calculate mine and if you can estimate seconds

its very easy to tell if you're pedalling much more or less than 60rpm with no aid at all.

 

I hope thats useful.

 

Stuart.

Edited August 27, 200817 yr by coops

NEWSFLASH.

Disregard this intitial post regarding mileage on medium setting.

I stripped down and cleaned the bike yesterday and attempted to remove the front wheel with problems.

Notice that the front wheel wouldnt turn that easy.

 

2 days previously my front brake handle was far too slack, so I tighening it up a little over well.

Found the brakes had been partially applied to the wheel.

It was a quick fix before getting in to work.

 

for 17miles I had been cycling against a half applied brake on the front wheel.

This could and will have effected to mileage outcome of the Pro Connect.

 

Sorry all.

I'll start the medium retest next week again and let you know the outcomes.

Bummer.

I'll try and rule out any variants that may effect the test this time.............................................ME !!!

 

Regards Bob.

Edited August 28, 200817 yr by burncycle

LOL

 

You've had us all thinking and postulating. After Coops posting, I had even come to the hypothesis that on High Power that maybe the cadence made a difference, as in that in high power mode, the PCB of the motor expected a lower cadence (as youre supposed to be climbing a hill) than in normal mode and so didnt provide assist at a slightly high cadence where normal mode would (even been trying to recreate your results on my pro-connect)

 

Cheers Bob

 

:D

Just to add a bit of flesh to the bones...

 

UPSIDE...

 

I am in love with my Pro-Connect. It is the bike that my Twist yearned to be. I have them stood side by side in my shed and I am sure the Twist is making lewd advances toward it !!!

 

It has raised my average speed from 14.9 to 16.5 mph doing my 10.5 mile commute in less than 38 minutes there (downhill), and less than 41 minutes back.

 

I arrive at work (having used high power all the way in) with 4 lights on the battery, and (so far - 250 miles in - early days) get home still with 2 lights left without recharging anything (I have to recharge my Twist half way which was soooo annoying !! Nothing says 'Technology isnt upto it' as loudly as recharging a battery half way IMHO).

 

I normally carry about 5 to 10 Kg of stuff in my Ortlieb panniers with me (clothes / tools / sarnies / waterproofs / towel, soap n spray), sometimes more, like laptop, files and large amounts of fruit for our works 'fruit club' (rota based).

 

So me and my 15st with say 10Kg of panniers get to work at an average of 16.5 mph, normally maintaining 20.0 mph on the flat (8th gear), 18 mph up a 1 in 40 (7th), 15 up a 1 in 15 (6th) and anything between 8mph and 12 mph up a 1 in 6 or less (but never lower than 4th gear). The only time I ever go below 4th gear is when I am behind a stopped car at lights and dont want to put my foot down on the floor, so I 'dawdle' in 3rd.

 

Downhill on the same route I usually end up at about 22-27 mph, depending on what cadence I want to 'train' at, as I am past the gear range, but it is fun

 

Every regular cycle commuter at work who has tried my bike (including the people who tried my Twist) thinks it thinks it really is a step change in the technology, with a number of the committed regular cyclists who originally asked me "isnt that cheating" asking me on pricing,Cost Of Ownership over the life of the bike, e.t.c. and actually considering (discussing with me) electric for themselves. For these people, I have gone from being an eccentric oddity to amuse a bit, to a transportation revolutionary - although not quite a Che Gavera (lol), which I have to say I prefer although really I dont care that much (it wouldnt change any of my decisions).

 

They see the Pro Connect for what it is, a power assisted bicycle, that does exactly that, it assists the rider, it doesnt really compensate for him like a we would expect an ebike would.

 

When you are 'in the zone' on the Pro-Connect, flying at 20mph, all you can hear is the "sscchhooooo.." of the rubber on the tarmac, and you simply eat up the miles. I used to get passed regularly on my Twist, its only happened once on this bike, and that was by a true road bike, the rider carrying his usual "tiny strapped purse" on his back for fear of weight, and even then I think if I had of put my foot down I could probably have taken him (there was a 1 in 10 approaching, but it was humid tonight,let him off till next time).

 

The Pro Connect diamond frame bike is a marvel. I find it hard to convey exactly how good it feels to move so fast so easily, and have such a responsive bike in your hands, it just makes it all so simple.

 

DOWNSIDES

 

As yet no punctures, so Ive not had to perform my road side repairs. But seeing as I have had no less than 5 punctures in my M+ on my Twist in the last year (a record I believe), I dont think they will be long acoming

 

Handlebars - At first my hands went to sleep, and I thought that I was on the verge of Carpal Tunnel syndrome (maybe I still am anyway), however I have found that by ensuring that the bar grips are higher that the bar middle (american chopper style ish ish), its fine, no trouble.

 

 

 

Overall I just cant really think of anything bad about it. It a great bike, really it truly is. I am 40 years old, weigh 15st, am not fit, have a day job in an office 10.5 miles-ish from home, and this bike is a car replacement, it forces me to exercise, is environmentally friendy, and it makes me feel good; what more can you ask.

 

 

Just my own opinion, of course. (burncycle - you are not alone) .

 

 

John

I used to get passed regularly on my Twist, its only happened once on this bike, and that was by a true road bike, the rider carrying his usual "tiny strapped purse" on his back for fear of weight, and even then I think if I had of put my foot down I could probably have taken him (there was a 1 in 10 approaching, but it was humid tonight,let him off till next time).

 

Aside: it could be my imagination, although I get passed by road bikes too, I've noticed that they often don't often seem to be going quite so fast when they don't know I'm behind them. (of course, I assume when they see what they think is a slow utility bike cruising along ahead of them at a fair clip, it's all Tour de France time to catch up and pass)

Definately agree prState