I had a good think about buying a conversion kit (thanks for all your advice on that Woosh) but having looked at what's involved I've decided it's a little too far outside my comfort zone to install one. There's also the fact that the rigid hybrid style of my Norco Indie isn't as well suited to the gravel and mud that makes up a large percentage of my route. Whereas the cross-country suspension fork and nobbly tyres on the Oxygen are a much better fit for this. The frame integrated battery is also a lot more subtle.

Take also a look at the Woosh Rio MTB. It has hydraulic brakes front and rear, better crankset (GXP), suspension fork (magnesium lowers) and 17AH battery. We can also deliver it with a rack fitted.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?rio-mtb

Seems a shame not to spend all your money, so how about a Rohloff gear bike with a front wheel conversion?

 

The conversion is the easy bit.

 

Not so many Rohloff bikes around, but Thorn would be my choice.

 

Top quality, steel bikes, and a proper bespoke testing and fitting service if you can make it to their premises in Somerset.

 

The bike would cost over £2K, but worth it if you are serious about daily commuting in the long term.

 

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/new-used-cycles-frames/

 

The Thorn's are bomb proof! I looked into touring bikes quite seriously after reading Alistair Humphries world cycle tour books a few years ago (brilliant if you haven't read them!). As I understand it they're better suited to going very far but not particularly fast though?

The Thorn's are bomb proof! I looked into touring bikes quite seriously after reading Alistair Humphries world cycle tour books a few years ago (brilliant if you haven't read them!). As I understand it they're better suited to going very far but not particularly fast though?

 

Not 'built for speed' as such, but much of that would depend on the rider and in this case the motor.

 

Steel plus Rohloff plus heavy duty wheels and other components does equal a bit more weight.

 

If you think about it, commuting and touring requirements are similar - the bike needs to be comfortable and, above all, reliable.

 

The Oxygen you are going for should do the job, you've probably seen the review thread on here from Andy Bluenose.

 

He gives his bike a good daily thrashing, and it's stood up to it fairly well.

 

Forty plus miles every day is hard use on any bicycle, so you should be prepared to spend some time and money on maintenance.

 

A hub gear, even if you couldn't afford a Rohloff, would have been better.

 

Derailers are fine for 50 miles on the Sunday morning club run when you have all week to do any tinkering necessary to prep the bike for the next ride.

 

Not quite so handy when the bike has to go again the next morning.

 

I would be tempted to buy a chain, cassette, and brake pads in the next month or two so you have them to hand when needed.

if you got the cash id spend it on a mid drive bike just because you will take a massive hit on a hub motor bike if you want to sell it on and upgrade.

 

i can get about 30 miles on a 500w batt with a dongle but new batts are a rip off but can now be recelled for about 350 quid.

 

loads of vids on my you tube page

If you think about it, commuting and touring requirements are similar - the bike needs to be comfortable and, above all, reliable.

 

A hub gear, even if you couldn't afford a Rohloff, would have been better.

 

Derailers are fine for 50 miles on the Sunday morning club run when you have all week to do any tinkering necessary to prep the bike for the next ride.

 

Not quite so handy when the bike has to go again the next morning.

 

Good point, with all of the considerations about which motor to go for, battery range etc I'd forgotten about the drive train getting full of grime on a daily basis. The Kalkhoff Excite I originally picked out had an Alfine hub and carbon belt for that reason but after all of the posts on here about the "Kalkhoff clack" and them having notoriously problematic motors I cancelled my order.

 

I haven't called Oxygen to order the bike yet as I need to wait a few days for EBCo to refund the money, so I've got a bit more time to think on it before I commit to anything. Just out of interest what kind of speed to you get out of your New Charger Touring? The old model with the NuVinci hub and 500wh battery is just under my maximum price range http://www.onbike.co.uk/crossbar-electric-bikes/charger-nuvinci.html

Speed is up to you.

 

Most Bosch bikes, including the Charger, can be derestricted.

 

Alternatively, it looks as if 50 Cycles will sell you a factory Speed Pedelec, which would cut the motor at 28mph.

 

Worth bearing in mind either bike is not 'tuned' in any way, it just carries on assisting above 15mph.

 

Makes a difference, but quite a bit of pedal effort is still needed to maintain high speed on anything but flat/tailwind conditions.

 

I've only briefly tried an Oxygen.

 

There's not much in it power wise, but I reckon it's a bit easier to go faster on the Oxygen.

 

All things come at a cost, so at 20+mph the rider will be slurping the battery big style.

 

Your round trip at speed is pushing it on a 500wh battery, so you would either need to charge both ends or have two batteries - hence my suggestion of a dual battery bike.

 

Charging at both ends is extra faff, only you can decide if you can live with that.

 

I'm guessing a second or dual battery would push the Charger NuVinci above your budget.

 

Have you looked at Cube?

 

Among their gazillion models I'm sure there's a couple with hub gears.

 

Wow soundwave I think you're a little bit insane! I don't think I'll be going any where near those kind of speeds. What motor do you have on each of those bikes?

mine is bosch performance 2014 but i have a dongle so you got no chance if im behind you.

for speed it is about the gearing and how fast you can keep spinning, flat out you need 120rpm.

 

tho you crash it is going to hurt so full face helmet.

 

Just out of curiosity how far is the shortest road distance for your trip to work?

Just out of curiosity how far is the shortest road distance for your trip to work?

 

The shortest road distance is 18 miles but.... 10 miles of that is up the A6 which is the most infuriatingly slow, congested and dangerous road in Greater Manchester. I've done it a few times and between lorry drivers trying to assassinate me and still being able to taste petrol fumes three days later I wrote it off under "bad for my health"!

Have you looked at Cube?

Among their gazillion models I'm sure there's a couple with hub gears.

 

I've been having a look at the Cube range for the past couple of hours and I've come across this as a potential candidate https://www.freeborn.co.uk/cube-suv-hybrid-27-5-pro-500-2017 it's got an alfine hub and a Bosch active line motor. As you mention, the dual battery system on the Charger NuVinci would boost the price up to nearly £5k which is way over my budget!

 

Do you have any knowledge of de-restricting the Bosch active line motors at all soundwave?

This cube sounds perfect. Alfine 8spd has good reputation. Just add rack, mud guards lights and good fully enclosed chainguard.(see gazelle arroyo c8)

Edited January 21, 20188 yr by Trevormonty

Good point, with all of the considerations about which motor to go for, battery range etc I'd forgotten about the drive train getting full of grime on a daily basis. The Kalkhoff Excite I originally picked out had an Alfine hub and carbon belt for that reason but after all of the posts on here about the "Kalkhoff clack" and them having notoriously problematic motors I cancelled my order.

 

I haven't called Oxygen to order the bike yet as I need to wait a few days for EBCo to refund the money, so I've got a bit more time to think on it before I commit to anything. Just out of interest what kind of speed to you get out of your New Charger Touring? The old model with the NuVinci hub and 500wh battery is just under my maximum price range http://www.onbike.co.uk/crossbar-electric-bikes/charger-nuvinci.html

 

Have you considered the Kalkhoff Endeavour Excite N11with the Neodrive rear hub motor

I believe the Neodrive motor has origins to Xion motors which by all accounts were reliable and can possibly be de restricted??

https://www.kalkhoff-bikes.com/en/bikes/2018/e-bikes/e-trekking/endeavour-excite-n11.html?tx_dcwproducts_dcwproductsfrontend[familyUID]=238&cHash=ea780c4c2214eee7ae8cd132a1326e9c

Edited January 21, 20188 yr by E-Wheels

This cube sounds perfect. Alfine 8spd has good reputation. Just add rack, mud guards lights and good fully enclosed chainguard.(see gazelle arroyo c8)

 

Agreed I was just looking at the Chainglider protector that's on the R&M Charger that RobF has, on Amazon funnily enough. Hoping I should be able to re-use the mudguards, rack and lights I have on my Norco Indie as that'll be going up for sale when the new bike arrives.

Have you considered the Kalkhoff Endeavour Excite N11with the Neodrive rear hub motor

I believe the Neodrive motor has origins to Xion motors which by all accounts were reliable and can possibly be de restricted??

https://www.kalkhoff-bikes.com/en/bikes/2018/e-bikes/e-trekking/endeavour-excite-n11.html?tx_dcwproducts_dcwproductsfrontend[familyUID]=238&cHash=ea780c4c2214eee7ae8cd132a1326e9c

 

I'd ordered (and then cancelled) a Kalkhoff originally E-Wheels, but I was put off by the bad reputation they have on this forum and elsewhere. Earlier today I'd pretty much decided a rear hub motor like this one features was the way to go, but then RobF wisely pointed out I'd be using my bike daily on gravel trails. So to avoid excessive maintenance and cleaning grit out of my drive train continually I'd be better of with an internally geared hub. As far as I can tell the IG hubs aren't compatible with rear drive motors. So currently the Cube SUV Hybrid is winning out over all other choices.

You should be able to put a Badass dongle on the Cube, which will scramble the display, but so what?

 

You soon get used to working out the correct speed, if that's important to you.

 

The Cube in the link has the small Purion display, so plenty of handlebar real estate for a Garmin - and lights.

 

The Moto X balloon tyres are good for comfort, but it's unlikely the mudguards on your current bike will be wide enough.

 

I've put the same tyres on the Charger which work well with the supplied mudguards which are SKS - should be in their catalogue somewhere.

 

Fitting may need some creative thinking, no bosses on the fork so you will need to use bands - sometimes called P clips - and a bracket over the fork bridge.

 

The rack will need to be a wide-leg disc brake one.

 

It's not clear from the spec, but I expect the bike will have 650b/27.5" wheels.

 

The overall circumference of the balloon tyres is about the same as a 29er mountain bike tyre, so a rack and 'guards for a 29er will fit.

You should be able to put a Badass dongle on the Cube, which will scramble the display, but so what?

 

You soon get used to working out the correct speed, if that's important to you.

 

The Cube in the link has the small Purion display, so plenty of handlebar real estate for a Garmin - and lights.

 

The Moto X balloon tyres are good for comfort, but it's unlikely the mudguards on your current bike will be wide enough.

 

I've put the same tyres on the Charger which work well with the supplied mudguards which are SKS - should be in their catalogue somewhere.

 

Fitting may need some creative thinking, no bosses on the fork so you will need to use bands - sometimes called P clips - and a bracket over the fork bridge.

 

The rack will need to be a wide-leg disc brake one.

 

It's not clear from the spec, but I expect the bike will have 650b/27.5" wheels.

 

The overall circumference of the balloon tyres is about the same as a 29er mountain bike tyre, so a rack and 'guards for a 29er will fit.

 

Thanks Rob, I found this for tuning the motor which you can set to your own speed restriction with. Looks pretty nifty http://www.speedtuning.eu/en/p/tuning-speedchip-for-bosch-midsize-engines/

 

I'm still weighing up my options and one thing I've been pondering is how hard is it to pedal one of these things when the battery runs out in your experience?

 

I'm debating the idea you suggested about picking up a Thorn (a Nomad or Raven) and having it fitted with a front drive hub so that it's still pedalable even if the battery does run out of juice. With that setup I suppose I'd then have the option to take the battery off and switch the front wheels and still use it as a regular touring bike should I choose to.

Little or no resistance from the Bosch crank drive and most hub motors when turned off.

 

You do feel the weight, it's like riding a loaded tourer but often without the appropriate gearing.

 

Not so bad trundling along on the flat, but any gradient will be a challenge.

 

No reason not to have a Thorn and use it with an ordinary front wheel.

 

I can't see the point over using it with the battery left at home.

 

The extra couple of kilos of the motor isn't going to make much difference in a touring setting.

 

Probably better to get the conversion with a decent controller which willl allow you to turn the wick right down for distance rides.

Not so bad trundling along on the flat, but any gradient will be a challenge.

 

Probably better to get the conversion with a decent controller which willl allow you to turn the wick right down for distance rides.

 

That was what I was thought might be the case. It seems this could be the most flexible and reliable option of them all then.

 

Do you have any suggestions on such kits? I'm having a look at this one right now which looks very easy to install and has a 20mph option, but the 10Ah battery wouldn't be sufficient for even one leg of the commute.

That was what I was thought might be the case. It seems this could be the most flexible and reliable option of them all then.

 

Do you have any suggestions on such kits? I'm having a look at this one right now which looks very easy to install and has a 20mph option, but the 10Ah battery wouldn't be sufficient for even one leg of the commute.

 

Kits aren't my thing.

 

My only advice is install it as professionally as possible.

 

I have a fairly low opinion of Chinese electrics, but there's no doubt many of the many niggles you hear about are down to dodgy wiring or haphazard installation of the pedal sensor or some other component.

 

Also take quoted ah figures with a pinch of salt.

 

Whatever the vendors on here say, some Chinese/aftermarket batteries don't give the capacity you might expect from the number stamped on the side.

Whatever the vendors on here say, some Chinese/aftermarket batteries don't give the capacity you might expect from the number stamped on the side.

do you realise that you are tarring all the Chinese e-bike importers here with the same brush? Have you got any proof that any battery that I, Kudos, Amp, Cyclotricity, Edge.Bike or Juicy sell (those present on here) gives less than what is labelled?

Although you don't say that we do, but the inference is 'don't buy Chinese batteries', they are sus.

do you realise that you are tarring all the Chinese e-bike importers here with the same brush? Have you got any proof that any battery that I, Kudos, Amp, Cyclotricity, Edge.Bike or Juicy gives less than what is labelled?

Although you don't say that we do, but the inference is that all Chinese batteries are not as good as.

 

On the flip-side could we say that Bosch, Shimano and Yamaha don't give full access to all the amp hours in your battery? given they shut down sooner than perhaps other batteries do to extend their life?

 

So could the reverse be true in some cases? Chinese batteries have more capacity for their stated capacity when compared with the 3 above ?

On the flip-side could we say that Bosch, Shimano and Yamaha don't give full access to all the amp hours in your battery? given they shut down sooner than perhaps other batteries do to extend their life?

 

So could the reverse be true in some cases? Chinese batteries have more capacity for their stated capacity when compared with the 3 above ?

it's easy to prove by opening the casing. Cells specifications are published, you take the cell capacity in AmpHour, multiply by the number of cells in a row, hey presto.

it's easy to prove by opening the casing. Cells specifications are published, you take the cell capacity in AmpHour, multiply by the number of cells, hey presto.

 

That may well be. however you've missed my point entirely, I had thought you might have known what I was talking about.