January 19, 20188 yr It may be worth considering, we have an ex demo model Riese and Muller Charger, as new. Perfect for your commute with the Bosch CX motor. We would be pleased to let you have the bike for £1,950.00. instead of the current £3,239.00 Just a thought! All the best David https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/e-bike/charger/charger-mountain/#17Z13_05010927
January 19, 20188 yr How technical is it to setup one of these kits? I'm reasonably capable with basic bike maintenance but I'm no sparky. The trickiest bit is to fit the pedal sensor but help is at hand! You need to turn the bike upside down, take a picture of the bottom bracket area and email it to support. Andy will make sure that you get the exactly right pedal sensor for your bike. If any tool is required, he'll send you a link to get it from the net. If you convert your Norco Indie 4, it has a straightforward Shimano UN26 BB, we only need to see that it is long enough to leave a clear 5mm gap between itself and the left crank to take a left side pedal sensor. If not, you need to fit the conventional right side pedal sensor. We would then supply a 3D printed mounting piece to fit your bike. The next difficult bit is to fit additional one or two M5 rivnuts to strengthen the support for the weight of the battery because you ride on gravelled roads. The rest is fairly straightforward. For the rear wheel, you can order the 700C wheel with an 8-speed cassette pre-fitted. Just take the old wheel out and shove in the new one. I just had a quick look at the kit on your site but it doesn't look like that particular one comes in a 700cc wheel size? Sorry about that, the 700C wheels arrived just before we broke off for XMAS holiday, I forgot to update the web page. It's now shown. http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits#xf08ckit
January 19, 20188 yr Author It may be worth considering, we have an ex demo model Riese and Muller Charger, as new. Perfect for your commute with the Bosch CX motor. We would be pleased to let you have the bike for £1,950.00. instead of the current £3,239.00 Just a thought! All the best David https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/e-bike/charger/charger-mountain/#17Z13_05010927 Thanks David I'll certainly consider it. As a seller of both mid drive and hub drive systems yourself. What are your thoughts on the two systems? Are the mid drive Bosch motors reliable in your experience?
January 19, 20188 yr Hi Mooksy, In a word "yes" the Bosch system is very reliable and certainly better suited for eMTBs than hub motors. However, we chose the Shimano E8000 for our eMTB range as we feel it's better in many areas, especially on a true mountain bike. For rides along the canal paths and less taxing rides the Bosch is an excellent choice, and if you are climbing very steep hills it's better than a hub motor. The hub motor is perfect for commuting and general day to day use, it's less expensive to buy and when eventually there is a problem less expensive to repair and service than a centre motor. They are also slightly more efficient than a centre motor which put much more wear and tear on the chain and drive mechanisms. In nut shell, for commuting and every day use I would recommend a hub motor unless you are hitting very steep hills. For serious mountain biking I would recommend a centre motor. The above is my opinion only and I am sure there will be others that disagree!! Good luck with your search.
January 19, 20188 yr There have been lot cases including my bike, of early Bosch CX drive being replaced under warranty due to water damaging main being. They've fitted extra seal now but needs changing on regular basis. Unless you have big hills to climb I stay clear of it. The Cube has new Active line Plus which is direct drive like all the other competitors middrives. I would expect Bosch have done better job of bearing design, no reason to believe it is not reliable. On level ground it shouldn't have any problem maintaining 20-25mph with cutoff disabled. At these speeds you may need charge at work. At 15mph on level ground round trip on single charge shouldn't be problem. 29" MTB wheels give you more options for larger volume tyres than 28" road wheels. Plus 29" roll better which makes for faster bike. The standard 38T chainring and 11t -34t cassette on rear will give around 20-23mph in top. If Bosch do a larger chainring I fit that, as your wear out 11t on cassette. NB you might be able to buy the 11t separately instead of new cassette.
January 19, 20188 yr Author Hi Mooksy, In a word "yes" the Bosch system is very reliable and certainly better suited for eMTBs than hub motors. However, we chose the Shimano E8000 for our eMTB range as we feel it's better in many areas, especially on a true mountain bike. For rides along the canal paths and less taxing rides the Bosch is an excellent choice, and if you are climbing very steep hills it's better than a hub motor. The hub motor is perfect for commuting and general day to day use, it's less expensive to buy and when eventually there is a problem less expensive to repair and service than a centre motor. They are also slightly more efficient than a centre motor which put much more wear and tear on the chain and drive mechanisms. In nut shell, for commuting and every day use I would recommend a hub motor unless you are hitting very steep hills. For serious mountain biking I would recommend a centre motor. The above is my opinion only and I am sure there will be others that disagree!! Good luck with your search. Brilliant thanks for the impartial advice David All things considered I think I'm going to go for a hub motor as there isn't anything particularly steep on my route, it's just long with a few moderate climbs. Now it's just a case of weighing up which model or kit to buy. Woosh's motor hub kit is sounding quite appealing at the moment.
January 19, 20188 yr Author There have been lot cases including my bike, of early Bosch CX drive being replaced under warranty due to water damaging main being. They've fitted extra seal now but needs changing on regular basis. Unless you have big hills to climb I stay clear of it. The Cube has new Active line Plus which is direct drive like all the other competitors middrives. I would expect Bosch have done better job of bearing design, no reason to believe it is not reliable. On level ground it shouldn't have any problem maintaining 20-25mph with cutoff disabled. At these speeds you may need charge at work. At 15mph on level ground round trip on single charge shouldn't be problem. 29" MTB wheels give you more options for larger volume tyres than 28" road wheels. Plus 29" roll better which makes for faster bike. The standard 38T chainring and 11t -34t cassette on rear will give around 20-23mph in top. If Bosch do a larger chainring I fit that, as your wear out 11t on cassette. NB you might be able to buy the 11t separately instead of new cassette. Thanks Trevor. How easy it it to disable the cutoff on the Cube bikes? DO you need to buy a special bit of kit?
January 19, 20188 yr it takes about 5sec to fit a bad ass dongle and move the magnet tho the speed shown will be half on the display
January 19, 20188 yr Author The trickiest bit is to fit the pedal sensor but help is at hand! You need to turn the bike upside down, take a picture of the bottom bracket area and email it to support. Andy will make sure that you get the exactly right pedal sensor for your bike. If any tool is required, he'll send you a link to get it from the net. If you convert your Norco Indie 4, it has a straightforward Shimano UN26 BB, we only need to see that it is long enough to leave a clear 5mm gap between itself and the left crank to take a left side pedal sensor. If not, you need to fit the conventional right side pedal sensor. We would then supply a 3D printed mounting piece to fit your bike. The next difficult bit is to fit additional one or two M5 rivnuts to strengthen the support for the weight of the battery because you ride on gravelled roads. The rest is fairly straightforward. For the rear wheel, you can order the 700C wheel with an 8-speed cassette pre-fitted. Just take the old wheel out and shove in the new one. Sorry about that, the 700C wheels arrived just before we broke off for XMAS holiday, I forgot to update the web page. It's now shown. http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits#xf08ckit Thanks Whoosh. I'm definitely weighing this up as it seems like a great option but I am a bit daunted by the fitting process though. I'll have a look at some YouTube videos to see if I can get my head round it. The exact model of my Norco Indie is this one https://www.evanscycles.com/norco-indie-2-2015-hybrid-bike-EV211749 I already have a pannier rack and mudguards fitted to it and I'd prefer to have the battery on the rack than on the frame I think, so I suppose I'd need to get a special rack like you have on the models on your site. Do you sell these separately as well? Thanks for all your advice so far!
January 19, 20188 yr Suprised no one has mentioned the Halfords Carrera Crossfuse at £1,600 ticks all the box's for a Bosch Crank Drive Ebike commuter bike.
January 19, 20188 yr I have a Norco indie 2 from Evans from 2012, converted it to leccy in Autumn 2013 it has now seen four different motors and still going strong as are all the motors fitted now to other bikes. 18 -21 mph is my flat running speed once on the go with 36v at 48v it would be a bout 4 or 5 mph faster.
January 20, 20188 yr Suprised no one has mentioned the Halfords Carrera Crossfuse at £1,600 ticks all the box's for a Bosch Crank Drive Ebike commuter bike. that one comes with a 400WH battery, too small for 44 miles a day.
January 20, 20188 yr The exact model of my Norco Indie is this one https://www.evanscycles.com/norco-indie-2-2015-hybrid-bike-EV211749 I already have a pannier rack and mudguards fitted to it and I'd prefer to have the battery on the rack than on the frame I think, so I suppose I'd need to get a special rack like you have on the models on your site. Do you sell these separately as well? that's a nicer bike than the Norco Indie 4. I only have 15AH (550WH) in rear rack battery at the moment. FYI, the XF08C can be supplied with rear rack and 15AH battery for £575.
January 20, 20188 yr Author I have a Norco indie 2 from Evans from 2012, converted it to leccy in Autumn 2013 it has now seen four different motors and still going strong as are all the motors fitted now to other bikes. 18 -21 mph is my flat running speed once on the go with 36v at 48v it would be a bout 4 or 5 mph faster. Good to know Nealh thanks. 18-21 mph would do me nicely to be honest. What motor kit and battery have you got on the bike currently and when you say four different motors do you mean each one has only lasted 12 months on average? Or have you just swapped them onto your other bikes?
January 20, 20188 yr i! I have a Trek Powerfly 7 (2017) 500W/Bosch Performance CX mid-motor, bought last April. In the past 9 months I have done 3,145 fault-free, mixed terrain miles (at an overall average speed of 15.2 mph) and it is still running perfectly (although chain replaced every 1,500 miles and brake pads replaced at 2,500). The range is about 35 miles because this is mid-Wales and the terrain is less than flat! On the occasional, flattish route I have achieved 44 miles. Be warned tho' - the Bosch motors have a crank to pedal rotation step-up ratio of 2.5:1 which means your bike, with an all-up weight (including rider) of 100kg, becomes 250kg when the battery is exhausted! I toyed with the idea of a dongle as I do find 16 mph a bit limited, but as the bike cost £2.5k I will wait until the Bosch 2 year guarantee period is over!
January 20, 20188 yr There are now millions of Bosch motors on ebikes around the world - far, far more than any other motor. The failure rate needs to be taken in that context. It's still hard to assess, but I suspect it's lower than any other motor. A money no object bike for the OP would be a Riese and Muller dual battery High Speed Rohloff Charger. The dual battery system equalises the use and charge of both batteries - ideal battery management with no faff for the rider. On board charging - if the OP can arrange that - is a good idea because taking any battery on and off a lot of times inevitably wears the contacts and locking mechanisms. But the main plus of the Charger is the Rohloff gear hub, ideal for commuting. Lots of commuters on here report having to regularly change chains and cassettes. A Rohloff is famously bomb proof, and the chain will last thousands and thousands of miles due to its high line and the fact it always runs in perfect alignment and is not scraped across a cassette. My Charger has a Chainglider cover, which will increase chain life even further, or the OP could fully grasp the technology and get one with a belt.
January 20, 20188 yr Thanks Whoosh. I'm definitely weighing this up as it seems like a great option but I am a bit daunted by the fitting process though. I'll have a look at some YouTube videos to see if I can get my head round it. The exact model of my Norco Indie is this one https://www.evanscycles.com/norco-indie-2-2015-hybrid-bike-EV211749 I already have a pannier rack and mudguards fitted to it and I'd prefer to have the battery on the rack than on the frame I think, so I suppose I'd need to get a special rack like you have on the models on your site. Do you sell these separately as well? Thanks for all your advice so far! Putting a battery on the rack will mess up your handling, the weight is too high, especially 17 Ah ones. If you don't want it on the frame a solution is to slip the battery into the pannier it gets the CG down lower to about axle level: The next step for the bike above is a custom battery box in the frame and the same hub motor that Woosh sells but in the freewheel version.
January 20, 20188 yr The next step for the bike above is a custom battery box in the frame and the same hub motor that Woosh sells but in the freewheel version. the freewheel version is XF07. We have stock of XF07 in both 26" and 700C. Price is £15 less compared to XF08C. Most hub kits are sold on one to one consultation. Customers are invited to email pictures to support so we can make up the right kit for their bike.
January 20, 20188 yr It's still hard to assess, but I suspect it's lower than any other motor. I believe best motor for commuting in terms of reliability and reducing overall maintenance cost is the front geared hub used in combination with a rear IGH, battery behind seat post. However, most commuters prefer the middle and rear geared hubs, battery on seat post for better ride quality.
January 20, 20188 yr Author There are now millions of Bosch motors on ebikes around the world - far, far more than any other motor. The failure rate needs to be taken in that context. It's still hard to assess, but I suspect it's lower than any other motor. A money no object bike for the OP would be a Riese and Muller dual battery High Speed Rohloff Charger. The dual battery system equalises the use and charge of both batteries - ideal battery management with no faff for the rider. On board charging - if the OP can arrange that - is a good idea because taking any battery on and off a lot of times inevitably wears the contacts and locking mechanisms. But the main plus of the Charger is the Rohloff gear hub, ideal for commuting. Lots of commuters on here report having to regularly change chains and cassettes. A Rohloff is famously bomb proof, and the chain will last thousands and thousands of miles due to its high line and the fact it always runs in perfect alignment and is not scraped across a cassette. My Charger has a Chainglider cover, which will increase chain life even further, or the OP could fully grasp the technology and get one with a belt. That machine look incredible but £5k is way over my budget. The Mrs would literally smother me in my sleep!
January 20, 20188 yr That machine look incredible but £5k is way over my budget. The Mrs would literally smother me in my sleep! Seems a shame not to spend all your money, so how about a Rohloff gear bike with a front wheel conversion? The conversion is the easy bit. Not so many Rohloff bikes around, but Thorn would be my choice. Top quality, steel bikes, and a proper bespoke testing and fitting service if you can make it to their premises in Somerset. The bike would cost over £2K, but worth it if you are serious about daily commuting in the long term. https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/new-used-cycles-frames/
January 20, 20188 yr Author OK so all things considered I've decided that I'm going to buy an Oxygen S-Cross MTB with an extra battery and dock and charge it at either end of the commute. There are a number of reasons I've come to this conclusion. Firstly by my calculations I should still be able to cover one leg of the journey on a full charge quite easily even after accounting for ~40% reduction in capacity over time. The second battery I'll keep on hand as a backup or replacement, as based on reviews, I'm expecting that to become a problem long before any issues with the motor. Secondly the Oxygen isn't too expensive for a first ebike. As someone wisely pointed out, it would probably be prudent to not spend a fortune on a first bike as I'll no doubt upgrade in a few of years time. I had a good think about buying a conversion kit (thanks for all your advice on that Woosh) but having looked at what's involved I've decided it's a little too far outside my comfort zone to install one. There's also the fact that the rigid hybrid style of my Norco Indie isn't as well suited to the gravel and mud that makes up a large percentage of my route. Whereas the cross-country suspension fork and nobbly tyres on the Oxygen are a much better fit for this. The frame integrated battery is also a lot more subtle. Many of the bikes mentioned with the Bosch drives do look good and I'm more convinced of their reliability now. But with much of my route being along long, flat sections I think a hub motor is the better choice. Also a major boon for me, is that the Oxygen can be tuned up a bit and allow me to get the 20mph speed I'm after. Without forking out for any additional dongles or borking the readings on the display unit. So it's going to be the Oxygen with a nice set of mudguards and a pannier rack. I'll keep this thread updated to let you all know how I get on Thanks so much for everyone's kind advice.
January 20, 20188 yr Shimano Alfine 8spd hub is lot cheaper than Rohloff. The 300% gear range is enough your commute. Can't be used with Bosch performance or CX drives, but will work with Activeline Plus or Shimano STEPs E6000 drives.
January 20, 20188 yr Good choice, the bike should pay for it's self very quickly if you ride most days. Even if you upgrade in future to another ebike having Oxygen as spare would be useful. With mileage your doing any bike will endup with some down time for maintenance.
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