Just a plea.

Can we refrain from using initials instead of words.

I find it tedious to have to do a google search WAUT

(Whenever anybody uses them)

Frankly, I find it all a bit pretentious.

IGH= internal geared hub.

FS = Full suspension

EMTB =electric mountain bike.

IGH= internal geared hub.

FS = Full suspension

EMTB =electric mountain bike.

I am particularly unimpressed by those that can't say ebike.

Overheard down the pub..

Hey John don't drink too much if your driving.

John replies.. It's ok I am on the EAPC...

[quote="tillson, p Why are you buying 2 to 3 chains per year? What do you do to them? I ride about 3000 miles per year on my bike and get a minimum of 2 years out of a chain. Just put plenty of grease on it and ride until the teeth start falling off the sprockets. Then replace the whole lot for about £20. KMC chain is excellent.

 

Whether chain, cassette and chain ring wear happens sooner or later depends on a few factors.

 

Crank drives for all their virtues amplify the power going through the transmission and consequently the wear of those parts.

 

Hub drives reduce the power going through the transmission extending the lifespan of the transmission.

 

Off road use, where crank drives shine due to all the inherent mud water and dirt also helps to reduce the life of a transmission.

 

The longest/furthest a chain, cassette and chain ring have lasted on my crank drive hard tail mountain bike that spends roughly 60% of its life off road is 11 days shy of a year and 2220 miles.

 

The least was 3 months and 776 miles but although it was a wet, muddy period where I did a little less cleaning and care than ideal I now realize that there was an issue with the rear mech where it had been very slightly bent leading to some hunting between gears and jumping out of gear.

 

So although you could index the system the slightly bent rear mech meant that it did not change as it should. I think this probably was the main reason for the premature failure although the winter conditions probably did not help.

 

I have forgotten when I last changed the transmission on my first hub drive electric bike. Used mostly but not exclusively on the road it just lasts and lasts and lasts.

 

My crank drive is a 9 speed set up which keeps the cost of changing chains cassettes and chain rings more reasonable. The Shimano cassette I buy has cost me just under £20 delivered off ebay the last couple of times.

 

One thing I agree with tilson about is not getting hung up on the wear of a chain. Use a good one and then let the whole transmission wear out together and change it all (possible exception of chain ring) together.

I look at from a slightly different angle.. yes the cost is important and probably around £100 for a new drive train on either bike using branded parts but I also consider the job itself.. replacing a manky chain is relatively easy for me but to replace it all is not beyond my skills but it's a job I don't want to do and LBS isn't always convenient. So, again on both bikes, when they are approaching 1000 miles, or the guage says the chains are worn, I bin the chain and fit a new one, not brand specific but whatever is on offer at the time. Using this method i never had to replace a cassett on my first Bosch classic emtb doing nearly 4000 miles although I did try to change it once to alter the gearing but I couldn't get it off and skinned my knuckles badly in the trying.

My giant e-road after 2300 ish miles is starting to suffer chain suck so I will be replacing all on that at some point soon and as it's a typical compact double I may attempt it myself but most likely take in somewhere..

I am particularly unimpressed by those that can't say ebike.

Overheard down the pub..

Hey John don't drink too much if your driving.

John replies.. It's ok I am on the EAPC...

 

Well done John, he's was the only one right. We do not have ebikes, they are illegal. We have electric Assist bikes.

 

I've often had a rant in here about this, I wish dealers and other would always say electric assist. That would put an end to the stream of people asking for a bike that would take them uphill without pedalling when they felt tired, or propel them to 30 mph or more, both not allowed.

.

Well done John, he's was the only one right. We do not have ebikes, they are illegal. We have electric Assist bikes.

 

I've often had a rant in here about this, I wish dealers and other would always say electric assist. That would put an end to the stream of people asking for a bike that would take them uphill without pedalling when they felt tired, or propel them to 30 mph or more, both not allowed.

.

Mmm. Well, when john mentioned his EAPC the pub fell silent as everyone tried to figure out what he was saying without seeming to be uneducated or thick, with looks of total bewilderment only usually seen on quiz night.

Mmm. Well, when john mentioned his EAPC the pub fell silent as everyone tried to figure out what he was saying without seeming to be uneducated or thick, with looks of total bewilderment only usually seen on quiz night.

 

Of course it would have been better if he'd said electric assist bike, then all would understand (hopefully!).

 

What is an EAPC could become a quiz night question.

.

Of course it would have been better if he'd said electric assist bike, then all would understand (hopefully!).

 

What is an EAPC could become a quiz night question.

.

After an hour, two bar brawls and four arrests an old codger came over and asked John to settle an argument.. what is an ACPC? John said oh, its an e-bike! [emoji312][emoji312][emoji312]

[quote="tillson, p Why are you buying 2 to 3 chains per year? What do you do to them? I ride about 3000 miles per year on my bike and get a minimum of 2 years out of a chain. Just put plenty of grease on it and ride until the teeth start falling off the sprockets. Then replace the whole lot for about £20. KMC chain is excellent.

 

Whether chain, cassette and chain ring wear happens sooner or later depends on a few factors.

 

Crank drives for all their virtues amplify the power going through the transmission and consequently the wear of those parts.

 

Hub drives reduce the power going through the transmission extending the lifespan of the transmission.

 

Off road use, where crank drives shine due to all the inherent mud water and dirt also helps to reduce the life of a transmission.

 

The longest/furthest a chain, cassette and chain ring have lasted on my crank drive hard tail mountain bike that spends roughly 60% of its life off road is 11 days shy of a year and 2220 miles.

 

The least was 3 months and 776 miles but although it was a wet, muddy period where I did a little less cleaning and care than ideal I now realize that there was an issue with the rear mech where it had been very slightly bent leading to some hunting between gears and jumping out of gear.

 

So although you could index the system the slightly bent rear mech meant that it did not change as it should. I think this probably was the main reason for the premature failure although the winter conditions probably did not help.

 

I have forgotten when I last changed the transmission on my first hub drive electric bike. Used mostly but not exclusively on the road it just lasts and lasts and lasts.

 

My crank drive is a 9 speed set up which keeps the cost of changing chains cassettes and chain rings more reasonable. The Shimano cassette I buy has cost me just under £20 delivered off ebay the last couple of times.

 

One thing I agree with tilson about is not getting hung up on the wear of a chain. Use a good one and then let the whole transmission wear out together and change it all (possible exception of chain ring) together.

 

Yes, my bike is a crank drive to an 8 speed Shimano Alfine hub gear. I think this is the ideal setup for an ebike. The hub gear has done about 30000 miles without a single service. The chain, being nice chunky 1/8, not flimsy 10 or 11 speed stuff, lasts about 7000 miles, maybe longer and is cheap. Same regarding the sprockets.

 

I’ve had this bike for 10 years and it still rides beautifully. In the time I’ve owned my bike, I’ve seen ebikes become less reliable and more expensive to maintain. This is mainly due to motors becoming unnecessarily powerful and breaking components and the number of gears becoming unnecessarily high, resulting in the use of chain which is unsuitable for ebike use. Most of this is evident in the posts made within this thread.

Yes, my bike is a crank drive to an 8 speed Shimano Alfine hub gear. I think this is the ideal setup for an ebike. The hub gear has done about 30000 miles without a single service. The chain, being nice chunky 1/8, not flimsy 10 or 11 speed stuff, lasts about 7000 miles, maybe longer and is cheap. Same regarding the sprockets.

 

I’ve had this bike for 10 years and it still rides beautifully. In the time I’ve owned my bike, I’ve seen ebikes become less reliable and more expensive to maintain. This is mainly due to motors becoming unnecessarily powerful and breaking components and the number of gears becoming unnecessarily high, resulting in the use of chain which is unsuitable for ebike use. Most of this is evident in the posts made within this thread.

Yes it is does seem odd that ebikes have more and more gears with each generation. Mine has 11 and find that I rarely change up or down one at a time its usually in twos at least.

i got 22 gears soon to be 24 :D

i got 22 gears soon to be 24 :D

OK,

Apart from wanting to have the latest tech.. What advantage will you gain from a 12 speed cassette?

the hole 12spd group set is the same price as the cassette i have now so might as well change the lot over and have a extra gear.

 

its done 3000+ miles now and a pita to index the gears and not shifting right.

That's right. No maintenance necessary. when it packs up, chuck the bike and get new one.

Naughty!!

Yes it is does seem odd that ebikes have more and more gears with each generation. Mine has 11 and find that I rarely change up or down one at a time its usually in twos at least.

 

Absolutely right. The motor allows the rider to pull away or accelerate in a much higher gear than would normally be possible with an unpowered bike. This means that the spacing between gears can be coarse, you don't need all of the fine steps between the lowest and the highest gear available. Its nonsense and you end up doing exactly as you say and shifting 2 or 3 gears at a time. I sometimes do it and my bike only has 8 gears.

 

When you start getting into the realms of 10, 11 and 12 speed chain, it's flimsy and can be expensive. In affect it is the trading of durability, economy and longevity of 1/8 chain for additional intermediate gear ratios that are not needed. It's a lose-lose situation.

 

I'm a big fan of 8 speed internal gear hubs on ebikes, they have very little in the way of exposed or vulnerable parts and are completely maintenance free. They aren't as efficient as derailleurs, but that doesn't matter on an ebike, the overall effect is negligible. Some of the more powerful motors have been known to damage Alfine hubs too, but that's only because the motor outputs more power than is needed.

i got 22 gears soon to be 24 :D

 

Similar, if not the same overall gear range but lots more tiny little steps in-between. Good luck.

i got 22 gears soon to be 24 :D

 

No you haven't.

 

Enter your sprocket sets into a gear comparator and you'll find that many of your front to rear pairings are duplications, sometimes exact, sometimes so close that they can't be thought of as separate.

 

True of all derailleurs as they increasingly exceed 15 nominal gears.

.

i have 15t and 18t at the front 2 is better than one tho have to change buy hand.

i have 15t and 18t at the front 2 is better than one tho have to change buy hand.

Be honest tho.. I understand the double front but you need the dongle to make the bigger ring of any use, but a 12 speed cassette? What will you gain? Is it just that, Like me, you want to have the latest kit?

I would like a 7 speed cassette or freewheel equally spaced from 12 to 40 teeth. That would cover the whole range from the +20% ramps in Navarra to the flat Landes (oh a pun!) with 32 and 48 tooth chainwheels. I asked DNP to make me a freewheel but they only go up to 34 teeth. You could probably make your own cassette from several disassembled ones.

Be honest tho.. I understand the double front but you need the dongle to make the bigger ring of any use, but a 12 speed cassette? What will you gain? Is it just that, Like me, you want to have the latest kit?

the price is the same as i have now to replace the cassette and also my mech has had a fair few bashes and seems to suck everything up like a hoover so will see if the gx mech is any different.

 

the 12spd chain also grips the teeth more so should get less wear but time will tell on that one.

 

and why not lol not many have 12spd and the ones that do are high end prices on new bikes.

i have 15t and 18t at the front 2 is better than one tho have to change buy hand.

 

My gear comparator only goes to 10 sprockets, but I've used that on a typical 10 to 50 teeth 12 speed cassette using only the 10 to 36 teeth 10 sprockets. The front rings I've made 16 and 18 teeth and used a 700c for the gear inches.

 

As you can check below, three of the pairings between using the 16 and the 18 tooth front are very close and six close enough to be little different. So effectively there are only about 8 to 14 gears with usable differences, rather than 20:

 

Edited March 24, 20188 yr by flecc

My gear comparator only goes to 10 sprockets, but I've used that on a typical 10 to 50 teeth 12 speed cassette using only the 10 to 36 teeth 10 sprockets. The front rings I've made 16 and 18 teeth and used a 700c for the gear inches.

 

As you can check below, four of the pairings between using the 16 and the 18 tooth front are identical.

 

So instead of 20 gears there are only 16:

 

[ATTACH=full]23952[/ATTACH]

Yes but he could use 4 of them twice...

Yes, my bike is a crank drive to an 8 speed Shimano Alfine hub gear. I think this is the ideal setup for an ebike. The hub gear has done about 30000 miles without a single service. The chain, being nice chunky 1/8, not flimsy 10 or 11 speed stuff, lasts about 7000 miles, maybe longer and is cheap. Same regarding the sprockets.

 

I’ve had this bike for 10 years and it still rides beautifully. In the time I’ve owned my bike, I’ve seen ebikes become less reliable and more expensive to maintain. This is mainly due to motors becoming unnecessarily powerful and breaking components and the number of gears becoming unnecessarily high, resulting in the use of chain which is unsuitable for ebike use. Most of this is evident in the posts made within this thread.

 

I nearly added a hub gear bike, as a bike that could easily be an exception to chain longevity on a crank drive bike for the reasons you mention. But if you want to go off road and can't or decide not to extend yourself to a 14 speed Rohlof hub then its a cassette and a chain.

 

Maybe the Raleigh Motus Hub Gear Bosch with new active line motor might be one that fits the bill for a road rider today looking for low maintenance longevity .

Edited March 24, 20188 yr by georgehenry

I had an Alfine 11 on an unpowered MTB and it was useless. The lowest gear was far too high, no way of lowering it enough to make it useable and it was always problematic so why this was sold as an MTB is anybody's guess. I did consider motorising this bike but decided it would only make things worse.. It would seem that the older Alfine 8 is a more robust gearbox..