I here all of what your saying but money wise i have run a 2k car for 5 yrs and only serviced it with no other failures and 60k as been put on by myself

electric cars are going to have to come on a long way to match that outlay

 

True on outlay, but e-cars easily match and exceed the other factors.

 

I personally cant comprehend 24k on a car of any type with depreciation being a major factor in all vehicles

 

But depreciation isn't such a big factor, since as said, e-car owners keep theirs long term.

 

And as for range its fine if your running around town or a city but I travel to Scotland quite a few times a year and at 500mls one way batteries are out when I get 650mls out of one tank of fuel and don't have to stop to recharge the car

Again I understand its all got to change but for now I don't see it myself for a while for mile munchers

 

Yes not for very high mile munchers, but to say they are only for running around town or city is the usual sort of gross exaggeration about e-cars. Living on the South London fringe my there and back range covers all of London, Surrey and East Sussex, almost all parts of Kent, West Sussex and Berkshire, with large parts of Essex, Hertfordshire and Hampshire.

 

That's a very big area and with the South East traffic conditions trips can easily mean over four hours of driving, more than enough for most drivers.

 

The proportion of drivers who never go far is very high. There are typically 40 cars parked on my short hill outside at nights and most are still there by day too, I've just counted and 24 are still there. The other 16 odd are away but wont have gone very far and will be back later. The insurance industry reports that females who are half of all drivers now average around 5000 miles a year. That's less than one charge a week! The average for men is only around 9000 miles a year.

 

After deducting the high mileage people like yourself, it's clear that the vast majority never drive very far and could easily live with recent e-car ranges.

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And there is another big plus... Soon all ecar owners may be allowed exclusive green number plates..

How cool is that?

And there is another big plus... Soon all ecar owners may be allowed exclusive green number plates..

How cool is that?

 

But it's a government consultation exercise so will only come into being after I'm dead.

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But it's a government consultation exercise so will only come into being after I'm dead.

.

Now you dont know that.. my mother is 97 and still lives independantly...

And there is another big plus... Soon all ecar owners may be allowed exclusive green number plates..

How cool is that?

 

They already do this in China and TW, it's a real status symbol!

They already do this in China and TW, it's a real status symbol!

Might even consider a plate on my ebike if I could choose the colour... No I wouldn't!

But there again I also carry a toothbrush when cycling...

I should leave a gap here fore someone to ask why, but in case they don't I have it for when roadies pass me uttering unflattering coments so that if I get the chance to do a hill re-overtake I woosh past one handed brushing my teeth.

There are so many ways .......

Now you dont know that.. my mother is 97 and still lives independantly...

 

Maybe, but will I still be driving then? With a friend and neighbour having his driving licence rightly taken from him at 85 due to an increasing blind spot in his peripheral vision, similar could happen to me even if I last for many years. I feel sorry for him since it's very badly affected his life and curtailed the many activities he previously travelled to.

 

And another neighbour has just lost hers due to increasing Alzheimers. She's the second locally to have lost a driving licence due to that condition since I've lived here. Driving and old age are often not compatible.

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But there again I also carry a toothbrush when cycling...

 

I had a toothbrush for one of my bikes. I used it for greasing the chain.

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Maybe, but will I still be driving then? With a friend and neighbour having his driving licence rightly taken from him at 85 due to an increasing blind spot in his peripheral vision, similar could happen to me even if I last for many years. I feel sorry for him since it's very badly affected his life and curtailed the many activities he previously travelled to.

 

And another neighbour has just lost hers due to increasing Alzheimers. She's the second locally to have lost a driving licence due to that condition since I've lived here. Driving and old age are often not compatible.

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I said you may see it. Not drive it....

I said you may see it.....

 

Depends on how big the blind spot is!

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I've been super into E-bikes since buying one 3 months ago and love them to bits! I honestly think they are the best way to get around!

 

But!! The main issue I have had with people is people calling me a cheater. I know it sounds silly but it makes me really angry. I've had maybe 10/15 random people over the last few months say things along the lines of "isn't that cheating? That's cheating, cheat"

 

I'm not sure if it just my town as I've only ever seen 2 other e bikes in the whole time on the road but there are a LOT of standard cyclists. I use the bike racks in town all the time so I speak to cyclists all the time but I'm starting to get very aggressive with people who keep saying I'm cheating! Who the hell am I cheating? I'm going to the bloody coffee shop lol

 

I think a big part of this could be that people do not know what an Ebike is in England. 90% of my friends and family thought an Ebike is just a slow moped with a throttle. I'm getting bored of explaining to people that throttle controlled Ebikes are illegal in the UK and you HAVE to cycle to make the bike move.

 

I've traveled the world and seen Ebikes all over the place and they are a standard form of transport in many parts of the world but we are very behind the market over here.

 

I look forward to the day where I see e bikes everywhere lol

 

I don't want this post to be a negative one but I'm sure I'm not alone here! I've just gone from cannot shut up about them to not really wanting to tell anyone that I ride one!

I totally agree with you what they don't understand is that you can get a workout just like a normal cycle but you just stay out longer .

I must admit flecc you have got me at least thinking my next car might be an electric one. I have retired and most of my journeys are fairly short ones, and as the wife also has a car we could use hers for the occasional longer drive.

 

The initial cost though is an issue. My last car cost £17k and I don't really want to be paying much or even any more than that when I eventually change it. Most of the new electric cars I have seen are much more expensive than that.

 

What are prices like for say a two year old electric? I don't need a big car as there is only me in it most of the time. My current car is a Fiesta, the 3 cylinder model with the turbo. Equivalent to 1600 cc but only 1000c.c, and gives around 50 m.p.g. (petrol).

I read somewhere that e-cars buck the trend regarding depreciation and it's also got me thinking. I don't want a big car and you only get big batteries in big cars and as I consider the leaf to be bigger than I would like..... hmmmm I hadn't considered hiring one for the odd long journey....

I must admit flecc you have got me at least thinking my next car might be an electric one. I have retired and most of my journeys are fairly short ones, and as the wife also has a car we could use hers for the occasional longer drive.

 

The initial cost though is an issue. My last car cost £17k and I don't really want to be paying much or even any more than that when I eventually change it. Most of the new electric cars I have seen are much more expensive than that.

 

What are prices like for say a two year old electric? I don't need a big car as there is only me in it most of the time. My current car is a Fiesta, the 3 cylinder model with the turbo. Equivalent to 1600 cc but only 1000c.c, and gives around 50 m.p.g. (petrol).

 

Just checked on car gurus listings:

 

A top of the range 2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna with around 6000 miles on the clock for £16,000 to £16,500.

 

A middle of the range 2017 Nissan Leaf Acenta which has almost everything on it anyway for only £15,000 with under 3000 miles on the clock.

 

You'll see those on page one of this link

 

Those were based on my postcode so enter your own for those in easy reach of you.

 

Ignore the very high prices for some of the 2018 models, that's shortage of supply due to the very high demand.

 

You can go much cheaper for older or higher mileage models, but stick to those from the last three years with the 30 kW battery since it has a longer 8 year warranty life and it's 90 miles realistic range is better than the original 24 kW one.

 

There's a government grant for the cost of installing a fast charging point at your own home, covering up to £500, which is normally the whole cost anyway.

 

P.S. You might find one so likeable that you'll have a job keeping your wife from using it. That's happened to many, their teenagers too!

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Edited November 7, 20187 yr by flecc

I read somewhere that e-cars buck the trend regarding depreciation and it's also got me thinking. I don't want a big car and you only get big batteries in big cars and as I consider the leaf to be bigger than I would like..... hmmmm I hadn't considered hiring one for the odd long journey....

 

Hiring is what many do for the odd long journey. Cyclezee drives electric and I think he has hired in that way.

 

In the early e-car days the depreciation was horrendous. I once saw a 6 month old £27,000 one sold for £10,500 with hardly any miles on it for example. Terrifying.

 

But that's changed now. The initial depreciation is still high of course like all cars, and a model change like last years Leaf to this years also causes a fall, but longer term it's got much better now. That's due to the now proven very high reliability of the cars and batteries proving they're much longer lasting than was earlier thought.

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"Cheating" is nothing new - I'm sure the same was said to horseless carriage drivers!

 

They already do this in China and TW, it's a real status symbol!

Austria too.

Come on! You can do overnight charges and you're not doing 1000 miles a day! I bet 90% of drivers never need more than a 240 mile range and that's increasingly available.

 

 

 

She's like me then, I have Raynaud's syndrome, losing all circulation in fingers, toes and ears in low temperatures, and that's got worse over the years. It can happen as high as 15 degrees now. This was the final decider in my buyimg the Leaf, the misery of coping with a freezing car last winter. As I've shown, no Winter problem now and in one of the hottest days this summer I was enjoying a constant climate controlled 20 degrees with 162 miles on one long run.

 

Finland has the highest proportion of e-car sales now, over 50% of registrations, and that's a very cold country. Denmark is on their heels and it's nippy there too

 

 

 

I've read similar before, but frankly think the argument loaded. Remember, theirs was the industry that led in fiddling the pollution and consumption figures. Germany is very dependent on it's car industry which is well behind the curve on electric cars. They are catching up slowly now, so I bet we'll see this story changing over time!

 

Anyway, I'm a very happy user and like so many e-car users, I won't be going back to i.c. and losing all the many current benefits.

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Flecc I really like the idea of an electric car and for my purpose and mileage it would be perfect. Where I think that the major problem lies is with the recharging infrastructure. It may be very good in a city like London but out in the sticks is probably way behind.

Flecc I really like the idea of an electric car and for my purpose and mileage it would be perfect. Where I think that the major problem lies is with the recharging infrastructure. It may be very good in a city like London but out in the sticks is probably way behind.

 

I agree and in fact go further since it is badly organised.

 

There are numerous companies installing and running charging points and they have many different systems of operation. Most insist on a monthly or annual membership with a fee, which for good coverage can mean many such fees, however little they are used.

 

Worse still is that they secure areas, leaving no choice of which to use. For example, on a 130 mile run to my brother's in Dorset, there's a local authority run point near this end off the M25, all the motorway service station ones are run by Ecotricity, but a cluster of points in Poole at the other end are run by another company. So I need three memberships to have full cover. Also some operate via smartphone apps and they have often proved unreliable.

 

The most sensible is a US company which has started up with just a few points only so far, and they operate from any contactless card with no membership needed. Government should give them all a kick and insist they switch to this fully accessible method with no membership or smartphone signal access necessary. Our governments don't do sensible though.

 

At present I think a fully electric car is only convenient if the great majority of all return journeys can be served from one's home fast charge point. Currently that means return journeys up to around a realistic150 miles, but some of next years models will extend that to around a realistic 240 miles. That should suit the needs of the great majority.

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I agree and in fact go further since it is badly organised.

 

There are numerous companies installing and running charging points and they have many different systems of operation. Most insist on a monthly or annual membership with a fee, which for good coverage can mean many such fees, however little they are used.

 

Worse still is that they secure areas, leaving no choice of which to use. For example, on a 130 mile run to my brother's in Dorset, there's a local authority run point near this end off the M25, all the motorway service station ones are run by Ecotricity, but a cluster of points in Poole at the other end are run by another company. So I need three memberships to have full cover. Also some operate via smartphone apps and they have often proved unreliable.

 

The most sensible is a US company which has started up with just a few points only so far, and they operate from any contactless card with no membership needed. Government should give them all a kick and insist they switch to this fully accessible method with no membership or smartphone signal access necessary. Our governments don't do sensible though.

 

At present I think a fully electric car is only convenient if the great majority of all return journeys can be served from one's home fast charge point. Currently that means return journeys up to around a realistic150 miles, but some of next years models will extend that to around a realistic 240 miles. That should suit the needs of the great majority.

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as usual the government has done a very poor job of coming up with a standardised system across the country. Just seems like a big free for all with no real direction. They have done the same with electric smart meters. On changing supplier it is unlikely the meter will work, They are rubbish at sorting such things out. Perhaps too many vested interests involved

Flecc I really like the idea of an electric car and for my purpose and mileage it would be perfect. Where I think that the major problem lies is with the recharging infrastructure. It may be very good in a city like London but out in the sticks is probably way behind.

 

I live in a rural town and would have to travel around 10 miles to the nearest filling station. The nearest public charge point for our Leaf is a mile away. Within that 10 mile radius there are 15 public charge points. Scotland seems to be reasonably well served compared to other parts of the UK.

 

wheeler

Seems as though the thread has been slightly detoured, but I”ll throw my thoughts in.

 

I have had a Nissan Leaf 24kw Tekna for over two years.

Driven about 12,000 miles in that time.

 

Let’s get the more contentious issues out of the way.

Range, yep about 80 miles.

Home charging is great, all this talk about filling up at a petrol station taking say 10 minutes only, yep, home charging whilst the car is not in use. You can even set the timer overnight to make use of off peak charge rates.

 

Yep, long distances take some planning, but most people ( not all), drive within the range most of the time.

 

Oil is running out.

Burning fossil fuels are bad for the environment, especially in built up areas with high population density, they are bad for us.

People say the environmental cost of an EV car is the same as a fossil fuel car.....

 

Taking the initial manufacturing environment cost as being about equal, the EV car can “burn” any type of electricity....nuclear, coal,gas, wind, solar, hydro .

 

The fossil fuel car burns oil, which uses a lot of energy just to produce. Then it is typically sent around the world in big tankers. Then it is transported to petrol stations, then it is burnt by cars.

 

All this energy is burnt into the environment.

 

So, new technology to reduce emissions need to be invested in green energy, new charge network etc, will need time to achieve.

 

Zero road tax, very much reduced service costs. No DMF,no particulate filter,no oil.

Longer life brakes due to regen on the EV. Virtual silent.

 

We get typically four miles for every one kWh of energy. One kWh is approx 16p.

 

Made the commitment to being “more green” a while ago.

 

Solar panels on the roof, plus bought a Tesla Powerwall battery to reduce the strain on the grid and cost of electricity.

 

Electricity is going to cost more in the future.

 

Won’t suit everyone, but EV cars would suit a large proportion of the population.

I live in a rural town and would have to travel around 10 miles to the nearest filling station. The nearest public charge point for our Leaf is a mile away. Within that 10 mile radius there are 15 public charge points. Scotland seems to be reasonably well served compared to other parts of the UK.

 

wheeler

 

Indeed there are many well served places like that and the UK total of charging points is quite good compared to the total number of e-cars.

 

The first problem though is the distribution of charge points, some towns or areas with large clusters of them, others with none at all.

 

The second problem is that where there are clusters, they are often all with one supplier, so if not a paid up member of that network they're no use.

 

The third problem, related to the second and which I've mentioned above, is the multiplicity of networks usually requiring membership with annual or monthly fees. There's a huge number of potential e-car buyers who would only do one or two long journeys a year, so having to have multiple memberships with costly fees for just one or two charges is ridiculous. There are attempts such as Polar to have an integrated membership but so far they have many failings.

 

The fourth problem is the high number of out of action charge points at any one time, critical on some routes.

 

The whole UK charging point situation is a mess which seriously needs some integration and overall management.

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I've done a bit or research into electric cars last few days. Range would not really be an issue for me, a typical journey being about 30 miles. I have a drive and a garage, the garage is where my meter and consumer unit is located. Home charging would therefore not be a problem.

 

So two issues that concern people ie. milage range and charging point would be fine. However I probably will hang on from buying one just yet for the following reasons.

 

They are still a fair bit more expensive to buy than the equivalent IC car. Even though over the life time of the car the costs are probably similar bearing in mind the cheaper maintenance costs and running costs of the E car. You still need to find that extra money up front for the initial purchase.

 

There is still a fairly limited range of cars available from a few well known manufacturers for the kind of money I would consider wanting to spend.

 

I suspect in the next few years the cost of electric cars is likely to come down and the choice (different models and manufacturers) likely to drastically increase. I don't tend to like being an early adaptor especially when spending a lot of money, so I will probably hang on for a while longer.

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