I wanted to build a

 

*bullet proof commuter bike as possible

* That wouldn't rust to death in the sea air like the last one

* That would fail safe

* That was fully road legal and lower end of power (stop me being too lazy)

* Was relatively lightweight (for an ebike)

 

I searched for ages for shaft driven bike and eventually picked up a second hand Dynamic bikes Tempo 8 . It's a 700c hybrid ally frame with a alfine 8 rear hub and, crucially, a sussex drive shaft instead of a chain . 115 pounds for a 2014 model with all original paperwork.

 

I chose an xf07 front hub from Woosh as low power and weight but could be restricted to get may be 20mph without messing about with overvolting. Also I wanted to buy in UK

 

Oh, and obviously a front conversion is only option . But much as many hate them if the weight and balance on bike is right .....u actually like the dual drive feeling . Done wrong, as I have done , it's horrible

 

Another reason for this choice was the controller being hidden in the battery rail. Clean look with fewer wires and I own HL battery packs to fit ( Panasonic PF and 25a bms from Brighton ebikes , way more than system needs )

 

So, ally frame won't rust, alfine is bullet proof vgear system, hub motor is low maintenance and shaft drive should be good for 10,000km and battery/bms is over specced.

 

Here is the bike as bought, totally standard off the peg

Edited January 22, 20197 yr by KirstinS

Here is motor, well packaged as ever from Woosh

 

Hand for scale !

I ordered new bars in Xmas sales for 8 quid , saddle will be a Charge Pan from shed and I've some new black grips too.

 

I'll stick some old Stolen Throttle pedals on top for now and some panniers

 

Finally brakes need upgrading from rubbish mechanical discs. I have some cheap clarks hyro in the shed and maybe some shimano hydro from my hybrid ( frame snapped about 3 years back and i salvaged parts )

I should add that only the PAS I expect to give me trouble due to shaft drive and weird old bottom bracket

 

Though Woosh have been super helpful, looked at my photos and done their very best to provide an option that will work with the shaft system. I expect to have to bodge a little bit far less than without their help

i hope that shaft drive holds up there were a few that broke on hilly terrain as i remember

i hope that shaft drive holds up there were a few that broke on hilly terrain as i remember

Yes, my commute is flat along the seafront (15mile ) so no worries there .

 

But also not hear that in relation to the sussex drive

Shaft drives have a long history this is one of earlier efforts

Shaft drives have a long history this is one of earlier efforts

All exposed that one, plus it forms part of the frame structure itself as it replaces the chainstay

 

It was a deliberate decision not to go for that design

Hand for scale !

Is it a small or large hand;)

So my other bike has developed some issues so I threw kit togther last night so i could get to work today.

 

Here it is with new bar, saddle and panniers. Pas not fitted yet as it needs some ingenuity, sugru and epoxy. Only had time to upgrade the front brake to a shimano hydro. Rear still currently a rubbish tecktro mechanical disc

 

With some bigger volume tyres, a proper suntour suspension post (and some grips!!) This is going to be total winner

 

Ride felt smooth and more torque than I had expected going uphill

 

Speed is showing 16/17mph on the LCD . I need to check vs GPS and I've not changed anything. It may go quicker but not really important . I wanted a legal, leightweight assist

 

Bike feels nicely balanced actually (before loading panniers anyway )

 

it also seems very effiecent , 7 miles in and no bars gone on battery .

KirstinS, are you going to fit the drilled magnet disc I sent you?

I noticed that the sensor head needs something to attach it to the seat tube or to the bottom bracket left cup.

The cup has six bolts, can you attach the sensor to one of the bolts?

 

Edited January 25, 20197 yr by Woosh

So my other bike has developed some issues so I threw kit togther last night so i could get to work today.

 

Here it is with new bar, saddle and panniers. Pas not fitted yet as it needs some ingenuity, sugru and epoxy. Only had time to upgrade the front brake to a shimano hydro. Rear still currently a rubbish tecktro mechanical disc

 

With some bigger volume tyres, a proper suntour suspension post (and some grips!!) This is going to be total winner

 

Ride felt smooth and more torque than I had expected going uphill

 

Speed is showing 16/17mph on the LCD . I need to check vs GPS and I've not changed anything. It may go quicker but not really important . I wanted a legal, leightweight assist

 

Bike feels nicely balanced actually (before loading panniers anyway )

 

it also seems very effiecent , 7 miles in and no bars gone on battery .

 

Looking good already, a nice clean commuter that's also unusual. You'll be causing jealousy in some other commuters in your area!

.

KirstinS, are you going to fit the drilled magnet disc I sent you?

I noticed that the sensor head needs something to attach it to the seat tube or to the bottom bracket left cup.

The cup has six bolts, can you attach the sensor to one of the bolts?

 

 

Yes , absolutely going to use it as the normal version wouldn't work at all....but there isn't room on the drive side for the sensor and pas ring. Even when I removed the metal retainer

 

There is space on the non drive side I think and it will fit without the metal retainer. Getting disc and sensor aligned and secure will still be challenging but I'll post when done

Inspirational stuff, good luck!

The bike is now my regular commuter. The PAS issue was fixed by use of Sugru (and Woosh's drilled out PAS ring)

 

The speed was a bit slow so I gave myself options. I opened the controller and splice in a loop ending in xt60 connector. This means I can add lipo packs to increase voltage.

 

The capacitor are 63v rated so I've added a 2s then 3s and 4s lipo by way of test. 4s does 24mph which is actually a fraction too fast for the gearing

 

Obviously this voids my warranty and illegal on public roads. However. I have access to private roads and land. So it is nice to be able to have options. Main 36v hailong pack runs to 16mph or I can add lipo packs and chuck them in my panniers as I choose.

Bargain donor bike, great find

 

Presumably bevel gears are used in the shaft drive? Any issues with noise / heat?

Fascinating stuff, thank you for posting. Are shaft drive bicycles more or less efficient than chain?

Bargain donor bike, great find

 

Presumably bevel gears are used in the shaft drive? Any issues with noise / heat?

 

 

 

 

Certainly mine is less noisy than a chain.

 

I can't imagine I can pedal fast enough to produce any heat !

 

Edit - I should add I mean this before I added a motor. Any sound heard is from motor not the shaft drive

 

There is a little hole to add grease to the shaft system occasionally (far less than often than a chain )

Edited May 6, 20196 yr by KirstinS

Fascinating stuff, thank you for posting. Are shaft drive bicycles more or less efficient than chain?

 

Depends who you ask to be honest. Manufacturers claim they are as effiecent as chains. Chain manufacturer claim 99% efficiency

 

However in reality , chains are not that good. That's almost perfect lab conditions to achieve it.A bit like emissions and mileage quotes in cars !

 

My own view as a very lazy /hater of maintenance is a chain is probably 90 plusand the shaft is probably a 5 to 10% less.

 

However , in an ebike this makes zero real life difference

 

Shafty is loaded up with panniers full of gear and a tiny motor (compared to my Bbs02b mid drive mountain bike). Yet is sips power and (with boosters) is at least as fast (though the mtb is geared to climb cliff faces )

 

So practically, in my view, it's the motor that makes the significant difference in an ebike.

 

However the feel is different . Zero slack in the system. Tiny pedal pressure results in motion

The bike is now my regular commuter. The PAS issue was fixed by use of Sugru (and Woosh's drilled out PAS ring)

 

The speed was a bit slow so I gave myself options. I opened the controller and splice in a loop ending in xt60 connector. This means I can add lipo packs to increase voltage.

 

The capacitor are 63v rated so I've added a 2s then 3s and 4s lipo by way of test. 4s does 24mph which is actually a fraction too fast for the gearing

 

Obviously this voids my warranty and illegal on public roads. However. I have access to private roads and land. So it is nice to be able to have options. Main 36v hailong pack runs to 16mph or I can add lipo packs and chuck them in my panniers as I choose.

 

 

 

First post - hope I'm doing it right!

 

Hi Kirstin - about the shafty e-bike -

 

I have one of these Dynamics Tempo bikes (since 2014, no problems with it, ever!), but I'm having trouble using it due to failing leg strength so the elec option is very attractive. Please can you give opinions / answers on a few questions

 

The general construction looks fairly easy and woosh look good people, so I'm sure I can get the motor bit sorted. The PAS sensor looks the hard bit , so ...

 

What exactly did woosh do to drill it out? Is it just a matter of making a central hole bigger or do you need to make other mods? What shape is the hole? (I guess not circular as it would then turn on the bracket ... or does it attach to a crank?) Basically, is it likely I could I get it done with a daughter who has workshop tools and skills but won't be experienced at this?

 

Where did you mount the sensor?

 

Do you need any front fork strengthening for the motor, or a torsion arm? I've seen comments that the forks and/or dropouts are weak, though I've had no trouble

 

What's a lipo pack? Presumably it's to do with a battery or battery booster, but the only google I can find refers to liposuction. And in same area, presumably 2s, 3s and 4s refer to numbers of banks of cells which would be attached in series to boost voltage. I doubt I'll want to do this but it's interesting. The controller comes with the kit so presumably the connections are explained? I've seen Micah Toll's stuff on the net on battery building so I have some idea of how it all works

 

And a bit off the wall - why not get a small battery motor to spin the PAS and mount it on the bars? Then the hub motor is pedal-assisting the little battery motor and you don't have to pedal at all. That's almost certainly not legal!

 

Charli

First post - hope I'm doing it right!

 

Hi Kirstin - about the shafty e-bike -

 

I have one of these Dynamics Tempo bikes (since 2014, no problems with it, ever!), but I'm having trouble using it due to failing leg strength so the elec option is very attractive. Please can you give opinions / answers on a few questions

 

The general construction looks fairly easy and woosh look good people, so I'm sure I can get the motor bit sorted. The PAS sensor looks the hard bit , so ...

 

What exactly did woosh do to drill it out? Is it just a matter of making a central hole bigger or do you need to make other mods? What shape is the hole? (I guess not circular as it would then turn on the bracket ... or does it attach to a crank?) Basically, is it likely I could I get it done with a daughter who has workshop tools and skills but won't be experienced at this?

 

Where did you mount the sensor?

 

Do you need any front fork strengthening for the motor, or a torsion arm? I've seen comments that the forks and/or dropouts are weak, though I've had no trouble

 

What's a lipo pack? Presumably it's to do with a battery or battery booster, but the only google I can find refers to liposuction. And in same area, presumably 2s, 3s and 4s refer to numbers of banks of cells which would be attached in series to boost voltage. I doubt I'll want to do this but it's interesting. The controller comes with the kit so presumably the connections are explained? I've seen Micah Toll's stuff on the net on battery building so I have some idea of how it all works

 

And a bit off the wall - why not get a small battery motor to spin the PAS and mount it on the bars? Then the hub motor is pedal-assisting the little battery motor and you don't have to pedal at all. That's almost certainly not legal!

 

Charli

 

Nice to hear from another owner Charli!

 

The PAS ring supplied by Woosh is a split ring style (ie comes into 2 halves). They made the circular hole bigger (presumably with a dremmel or similar). Still circular though

 

I used sugru to fix in place (a branded silicon putty that cures to hard and is tough)

 

The motor slots straight into the forks with no filing required. The controller is hidden in the battery mounting bracket

 

All the wiring is waterproof and very simple to hook up

 

As for your pas motor idea....just fit a throttle (thumb or twist grip) that's what I have done

 

Finally the battery booster bit - this is very. Uch DIY area and risks damage, voids your warranty and illegal for public roads. Just FYI, no judgement from me

 

Lipo is a battery chemistry and used in RC cars planes and drones. They come in bricks of various voltages, capacity and shapes. The do t have a BMS afe the riskiest form of lithium. I would not bother with them usually except I have bunch spare. You are correct about 2s etc. This refers to the number of cell strings and therfore voltage

 

Hope that helps

the drilled disc is now sourced from King Meter:

 

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/2020/hubkits/split-disc.jpg

Nice to hear from another owner Charli!

 

The PAS ring supplied by Woosh is a split ring style (ie comes into 2 halves). They made the circular hole bigger (presumably with a dremmel or similar). Still circular though

 

I used sugru to fix in place (a branded silicon putty that cures to hard and is tough)

 

The motor slots straight into the forks with no filing required. The controller is hidden in the battery mounting bracket

 

All the wiring is waterproof and very simple to hook up

 

As for your pas motor idea....just fit a throttle (thumb or twist grip) that's what I have done

 

Finally the battery booster bit - this is very. Uch DIY area and risks damage, voids your warranty and illegal for public roads. Just FYI, no judgement from me

 

Lipo is a battery chemistry and used in RC cars planes and drones. They come in bricks of various voltages, capacity and shapes. The do t have a BMS afe the riskiest form of lithium. I would not bother with them usually except I have bunch spare. You are correct about 2s etc. This refers to the number of cell strings and therfore voltage

 

Hope that helps

 

Thanks Kirstin, esp for speed of reply! And also Woosh for the helpful pic. A bigger circular hole sounds pretty easy. Looking at the pic (which shows the split in the ring) and my bike, I think I can get a thin circular disk to abut the left crank arm where it meets the crank and then i can attach the PAS disk to that. Space should be enough. Then I can sugru the sensor off the corrugated left side of the bottom bracket alongside one of the tubes there. I've used sugru before, tough and if I break it off it'll be quick to replace

 

The handlebar motor idea was just a bit of silliness, but I've now learned that a throttle can be used! Maybe the law will change sometime, but I'm happy with the pedal assist - it forces me to get a bit of exercise

 

Lipo = Lithium Polymer, I discovered after reading about six pages of google liposuction responses

 

I've got an ebike at present - Halfords Carrera Crosscity. Nice but ... The wheels are too small so 1) going up those steep hill/bridges on the towpath with your centre of gravity nearer the back of the bike means big boost means wheelie means I fell off the back and nearly ended up in the canal! and 2) You feel every road bump and towpath cobble (and no suspension doesn't help). And then 3) it's very heavy, which makes foldability only useful as an adjunct to a car, 4) The single spine geometry makes it practically impossible to get a secure lock through the frame and 5) the kids keep nicking it

 

And I really like the simple lines of the shafty, and that it's so quiet I can sneak up on squirrels in the local park

Edited January 12, 20206 yr by Charli

 

And I really like the simple lines of the shafty, and that it's so quiet I can sneak up on squirrels in the local park

 

Yes indeed, most seem to assume it will be noisy. Here in Brighton we have shared bike scheme (like the London santander bikes). Boy are they made to last. They weigh as much as a motorbike, hub gears and a shaft drive. And they are ARE oddly noisy. It isn't the same shaft drive manufacturer though (I checked)

 

The Sussex drive that we have does seem to be one of the best. All I hear is the motor (especially if overvolted, this does make noisy

 

Also, FYI, I have bought a new but cheap set of suntour suspension forks as I do find the lack of suspension hard on my wrists in particular. Boy are they heavy though and might alter the geometry to much even for a road/light path commuter

 

I will let you know how it goes if interested

 

Also I belive that a throttle is legal as long as it is on a kit. Not on a ready made or OEM bikeike a Bosch but don't quote me. Call Woosh they'll confirm the situation for you

Edited January 13, 20206 yr by KirstinS

There is. Just one issue on this bike. The cranks are a very unusual and rubbish design. Not square taper or octalink but shimano powerspline (10 spline). Google this failed proprietary design!

 

If you can find a right hand crank let me know!