June 19, 20205 yr ...they are sending a new motor out. So a big thumbs up to Bosch and my LBS there. Eh? I don't understand your appreciation or logic... A big thumbs up to both a manufacturer and a dealer for selling and sending out a bike that was defective as new? I'd have to say I experienced a similar kind of sloppy manufacturing/quality control when I bought a brand new Mercedes. It just makes me angry given the premium the Germans charge for their so-called "excellence in engineering".
June 19, 20205 yr I have a CX(V4) on a Cube Reaction Hybrid Pro 500 2020 and it makes more noise than my older AL3, but I wouldn't say it's really loud. But then I wouldn't say i hit 90rpm. But I love the fact that it totally disengages after 15.5mph. There was still a little resistance over 15.5mph on the AL3. Regards, Phil.
June 19, 20205 yr Author Eh? I don't understand your appreciation or logic... A big thumbs up to both a manufacturer and a dealer for selling and sending out a bike that was defective as new? I'd have to say I experienced a similar kind of sloppy manufacturing/quality control when I bought a brand new Mercedes. It just makes me angry given the premium the Germans charge for their so-called "excellence in engineering". 1) Is it defective? I don't know. It sounds very loud to me, but plenty of people say it is a louder motor. I've got nothing to compare it with other than my wife's bike, and hers had a different motor which I now understand is generally held to be quieter than mine. My LBS guy doesn't really know either - this is the first gen 4 CX motor equipped bike he has sold, so what does he have to compare it with? But he knew I was upset, that I thought it was wrong, and he dealt with it. I have seen stories of bike shops fobbing people off - he didn't. 2) QC/QA is a numbers game. No production line that I can think of is ever 100% perfect. The motor passes the diagnostics. What are thhey going to do, put every single motor in some sort of test rig and emulate cycling at different cadences, and listening? You can't even use a sound meter for this sort of thing, because different pitches of sound affect decibels in different ways. But Bosch listened to the recording, and then said without quibbling, we'll send you out another motor. Good customer service isn't about never making mistakes. It is about rectifying them when you become aware of them. I trust your defective Mercedes was fixed in a similarly prompt fashion. Cheers, John
June 19, 20205 yr Author I have a CX(V4) on a Cube Reaction Hybrid Pro 500 2020 and it makes more noise than my older AL3, but I wouldn't say it's really loud. But then I wouldn't say i hit 90rpm. But I love the fact that it totally disengages after 15.5mph. There was still a little resistance over 15.5mph on the AL3. Regards, Phil. Hiya Phil... ta for this. Yes I have (after the event) come to realise that my wife's (AL3) motor is so quiet because it is a very quiet motor <g>. Your comparison is v helpful though because that is the same 2 motors that I am comparing. The best illustration of the difference in noise I can give, is that when we are cycling along together, she can't hear her bike at all above the noise that my bike makes! It sounds like your CX4 can't be as loud as mine, but subjectivity makes this so complicated. That is one of the reasons I was so pleased with the response of the LBS and Bosch. But yes, that disengagement is sweet, it feels really natural to ride, I absolutely love it apart from the noise! Cheers, John
June 19, 20205 yr 1) Is it defective? I don't know. Bosch obviously think so. They don't send out new £800 motors for a laugh. 2) QC/QA is a numbers game. Crap. I taught Quality Management for a while in the 1980's. If your bike had failed after a period of time, that might be understandable. From what you say here, yours seems (in your own opinion, which Bosch are now agreeing with) defective at the point of sale. I trust your defective Mercedes was fixed in a similarly prompt fashion. No, it never was. Like your e-bike, in 4 visits to the dealership, they just kept plugging it into their diagnostic computer, and the computer said it was okay. It was a chance meeting with a Mercedes enthusiast mechanic who really understood how these things really functioned that sorted the problem in 10 minutes with a spanner. That's the problem with CANbus diagnostics - all it says is replace this module or that. The poor sod operating the computer understands nothing, other than to replace the motor, controller or display. My enthusiast Mercedes mechanic sorted my car with a spanner (problem one), and a soldering iron (dry joint in a £100 plug-in module). The so-called Main Agent Mercedes Mechanics hadn't a clue. I bought that Mercedes in 1997, 23 years ago. I still have it. It's been perfect ever since. The question remains how it left the factory - and subsequently a Main Agent Dealer - with such obvious faults. I'm not going to "Bosch Bash" - there's enough of that going on here on the forum. The issue is to my mind one of releasing defective goods which so clearly are "not fit for purpose". But if you're happy to accept a repair with all the inconvenience that entails to a new - expensive - e-bike, that's fine with me. I personally wouldn't.
June 19, 20205 yr 5 years with a dongle and still good as new but as you can see there is a lot more that can go wrong compared to a hub motor. could be just a faulty electric motor making a hi pitch whine or bearings not installed right or faulty from new so no software will detect this anyway. dealers can not open motors with warranty so must be sent back for replacement units as will not sell the parts or even give them to dealers for warranty repair same as apple, they dont even stock fkn phone batts ffs lol. and if my motor did fail in some way peter at performance line bearings will fix it for free
June 20, 20205 yr Author Cyclebuddy - no, it isn't crap. I'd be very surprised if Bosch did 100% inspections. If you don't do 100% inspections, there is of course a risk that some defects will get through. My experience has been completely unlike yours, where you went to the dealer 4 times, and all they did was run diagnostics. On my first visit, I have been offered a solution. To me, that is good customer service.
June 21, 20205 yr Cyclebuddy - no, it isn't crap. I'd be very surprised if Bosch did 100% inspections. If you don't do 100% inspections, there is of course a risk that some defects will get through. Maybe it's just the Germans that don't take quality seriously then. Here's a Bafang Factory Tour video: They have 6 motor production lines, one of which is producing 34,000 motors a month. There's component level checking before assembly into the motor, the sub-assemblies are then quality checked as the motor progresses, and finally EVERY motor is quality tested and checked again: Those measured parameters for each individual motor are stored on a server linked to each motors serial number, which is laser-engraved into it. That way each motor can be traced to source if problems do later arise. Final stage quality checking and testing is shown here at about 2.15: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_is9HPYrkwQ:135 Worth watching all 8 videos. There are other Chinese e-bike motor factory tours: One from Shengyi motors shows a similar "zero defect" philosophy too.
June 21, 20205 yr Author There's component level checking before assembly into the motor, the sub-assemblies are then quality checked as the motor progresses, and finally EVERY motor is quality tested and checked again That really is interesting. I was under the impression that people only did 100% inspections when either the equipment was mission critical, or there was a known issue with quality. Certainly when I worked at Schlumberger that was the case - the more reliable the products, the fewer samples were taken. Seems like times have changed! Nonetheless, I remain very happy with the customer service I have received.
June 22, 20205 yr Went out for a ride at the weekend with my lad and I couldn't hear the motor on the AL3 at all as I was cycling. But like you say could hear the gen 4 all the way like a very quiet electric milk float
June 22, 20205 yr Author Went out for a ride at the weekend with my lad and I couldn't hear the motor on the AL3 at all as I was cycling. But like you say could hear the gen 4 all the way like a very quiet electric milk float Ta Philip... that settles it, your milk float is quieter than mine! <g> Cheers, John
June 22, 20205 yr Author Ta Philip... that settles it, your milk float is quieter than mine! <g> Cheers, John Hiya again... I haven't mentioned it before, but there are three parts to the noise my CX makes. One is the milk float noise, but another part is a super high pitched jangling, it is like having tinnitus, it sounds like the noise is in my ears rather than coming from the bike. Do you get that too? Also, when you weere out with your lad, were you on the AL3 or the CX gen4? Cheers, John
June 22, 20205 yr Hiya again... I haven't mentioned it before, but there are three parts to the noise my CX makes. One is the milk float noise, but another part is a super high pitched jangling, it is like having tinnitus, it sounds like the noise is in my ears rather than coming from the bike. Do you get that too? Also, when you weere out with your lad, were you on the AL3 or the CX gen4? Cheers, John I don't get high pitched jangling noises, i was on the CX4, I couldn't hear the motor on the AL3 he was riding!
June 22, 20205 yr Author I don't get high pitched jangling noises, i was on the CX4, I couldn't hear the motor on the AL3 he was riding! Do you know, could HE hear the AL3 he was riding above the noise from your CX4? I ask because my wife (on her AL3) can't hear her AL3 above my CX4, so this would be a direct comparison. (Like you, I can't hear her AL3 above my CX4) Thanks Philip Cheers, John
June 22, 20205 yr Hi John, he says he could hear his own motor as well as mine when riding close together, regards, Phil.
June 22, 20205 yr Author Hi John, he says he could hear his own motor as well as mine when riding close together, regards, Phil. Hi Phil, that's brilliant, thanks v much. My wife can't hear her AL3 above my CX4, so it definitely sounds like my motor is noiser than it should be. I know this isn't scientific, but it is interesting! Thanks again Cheers, John
June 24, 20205 yr Author UPDATE Just rode the bike back from the bike shop, complete with new motor. What a difference! Not nearly as loud, and I couldn't hear the tinnitus-like jangling. Very happy! Now I can swap over my Brooks saddle, change the handlebars etc and generally make it mine. I wasn't certain that there was a problem, but I am so pleased that I took it back. Cheers, John
August 22, 20241 yr UPDATE Just rode the bike back from the bike shop, complete with new motor. What a difference! Not nearly as loud, and I couldn't hear the tinnitus-like jangling. Very happy! Now I can swap over my Brooks saddle, change the handlebars etc and generally make it mine. I wasn't certain that there was a problem, but I am so pleased that I took it back. Cheers, John Sorry to comment on an old thread but found your comments through a search as your problems sound like my current one. So glad you got yours resolved. For reference just purchased a new old stock ebike with a 2022 bosch performance cx motor. It also has a very very noticeable whine (many times worse than others i test rode). This is the first bosch cx ive ridden however. Had to order it through the bike shop without a test ride first. One part that really intriqued me is you stating it made the same noise when pushed backward(motor off). Question is does the new motor do this the same or to the same degree? Mine is noticed greatly if i stand it up on the back wheel walking behind it, then let the front slam back down to the ground, which naturally causes the rear wheel to roll backwards. This is how i unload it from the bed of a truck, one wheel at a time. Thanks in advance for any input. Joe
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