Completely false. Bafang used to test their geared motors to 30,000km. That was before they improved the material that the gears are made of. Even before that, many of the failed gears were in motors full of rust. 12 years ago, rusty motors and motors with failed hall sensors due to water getting in were very common, but failures of geared hub-motors today are extremely rare.

 

Most direct drive motors are useless for typical UK riding.

Geared hubs are much better!

My problem with them is that I have two that I cannot get rid of. As soon as someone rides an optimized mid-drive they turn up their noses at the hub-drives. No one wants hub-drives. Any ideas of how to dispose of these? Is it ethical to donate them to Africa?

Geared hubs are much better!

My problem with them is that I have two that I cannot get rid of. As soon as someone rides an optimized mid-drive they turn up their noses at the hub-drives. No one wants hub-drives. Any ideas of how to dispose of these? Is it ethical to donate them to Africa?

There are plenty of people on this forum that would take them from you for the cost of postage. Which exact motors are they? Can you show some photos if you're not sure which ones they are?

Ok I think I already have a slight idea of what I need to buy. A 250W 48V rear hub with a 17.5Ah Panasonic or Samsung battery (good brands right?) And a controller of ...? Could it be 20Ah or should it also be 17.5Ah?

You're confusing Ah (which is a capacity rating) with A which is a flow rating.

Ah = Amp hours. Tells you how much current a battery can deliver and for how long. So a 17.5 Ah battery will (theoretically) deliver 17.5 amps for one hour or 1 amp for 17.5 hours.

A = Current flow measured in Amps. A 20 A controller will have a maximum current flow of 20 A. In practice this will only happen in maximum setting and/or at times of maximum load. ie hill starts.

If you multiply Ah by battery voltage you get Watt hours (Wh) which is, perhaps, a more useful expression of battery capacity.

So a 17.5Ah 36v battery is (nominaly) 630Wh. A rule of thumb is that riders use between 10 and 20 Wh/mile. As a deliveroo rider I imagine you are quite fit so will be at the low side of this, maybe even achieving 7-8 Wh/mile.

But lets say 10Wh/mile. This would give you a theoretical range of 63 mile on a 17.5Ah battery. This would be affected by traffic (stop/starts), hills, weight carried, wind etc etc.

 

So a 20A controller on a 17.5Ah battery is fine .

Do look at the max current capacity that the battery is capable of delivering. Ideally this figure should be 1.5 times the max current of the controller so as to extend the life of the battery cells.

You're confusing Ah (which is a capacity rating) with A which is a flow rating.

Ah = Amp hours. Tells you how much current a battery can deliver and for how long. So a 17.5 Ah battery will (theoretically) deliver 17.5 amps for one hour or 1 amp for 17.5 hours.

A = Current flow measured in Amps. A 20 A controller will have a maximum current flow of 20 A. In practice this will only happen in maximum setting and/or at times of maximum load. ie hill starts.

If you multiply Ah by battery voltage you get Watt hours (Wh) which is, perhaps, a more useful expression of battery capacity.

So a 17.5Ah 36v battery is (nominaly) 630Wh. A rule of thumb is that riders use between 10 and 20 Wh/mile. As a deliveroo rider I imagine you are quite fit so will be at the low side of this, maybe even achieving 7-8 Wh/mile.

But lets say 10Wh/mile. This would give you a theoretical range of 63 mile on a 17.5Ah battery. This would be affected by traffic (stop/starts), hills, weight carried, wind etc etc.

 

So a 20A controller on a 17.5Ah battery is fine .

Do look at the max current capacity that the battery is capable of delivering. Ideally this figure should be 1.5 times the max current of the controller so as to extend the life of the battery cells.

This has been a master class! Thank you very much.

So in the case of a 17.5Ah 48V battery it could also have a 17.5A driver right?

This has been a master class! Thank you very much.

So in the case of a 17.5Ah 48V battery it could also have a 17.5A driver right?

There's no relationship between the two. best would be to show us what controller, motor and battery you have in mind, then tell us what you expect/hope they will do for you, so that we can advise you exactly what you need.

There's no relationship between the two. best would be to show us what controller, motor and battery you have in mind, then tell us what you expect/hope they will do for you, so that we can advise you exactly what you need.

I'm thinking to buy this: SWX02 48V 250W Rear Hub Kit with Lishui 48V 17Amps sine-wave controller.

And I'm looking any battery for a long distance.

I'm thinking to buy this: SWX02 48V 250W Rear Hub Kit with Lishui 48V 17Amps sine-wave controller.

And I'm looking any battery for a long distance.

SWX01 48V 250W

I'm thinking to buy this: SWX02 48V 250W Rear Hub Kit with Lishui 48V 17Amps sine-wave controller.

And I'm looking any battery for a long distance.

That's perfect fo dilveroo.

There are plenty of people on this forum that would take them from you for the cost of postage. Which exact motors are they? Can you show some photos if you're not sure which ones they are?

Forgive me, it has been awhile since I looked at these.

The 26in clincher front hub is Non-Geared and 750W with a throttle display and is 48/52V. It has brake cut-outs levers and a 20A controller, branded Voilamart. The 29er is perfect. I paid $440US for it with shipping. It is a Internally Geared, a CSC, Carbon Speed Cycle brand and is 36V with 350W. It has an attached 160 disc and 9-Speed freewheel of Nickle plated gears. It also has a throttle with display and a 20A controller with cut-out brake levers.

I do not ship stuff. I work on bikes locally like a dog walker or baby sitter, I am a local bike mechanic who works on bikes I can touch. If you care to see what I am working on these days go to https://pedaluma.com/. Again, I do not ship or sell on the internet. An Africa Project donation may be the best option. But is it ethical, given that hub motors lag, lurch and underperform? I like clean builds.

If you care to see what I am working on these days go to https://pedaluma.com/.

Those are very elegant bikes, personally I never understand why folk get an electric bike then try to pretend it isn't, maybe some deep seated guilt feelings or being scared of being called a cheat!

You've done some nice looking work.

Forgive me, it has been awhile since I looked at these.

The 26in clincher front hub is Non-Geared and 750W with a throttle display and is 48/52V. It has brake cut-outs levers and a 20A controller, branded Voilamart. The 29er is perfect. I paid $440US for it with shipping. It is a Internally Geared, a CSC, Carbon Speed Cycle brand and is 36V with 350W. It has an attached 160 disc and 9-Speed freewheel of Nickle plated gears. It also has a throttle with display and a 20A controller with cut-out brake levers.

I do not ship stuff. I work on bikes locally like a dog walker or baby sitter, I am a local bike mechanic who works on bikes I can touch. If you care to see what I am working on these days go to https://pedaluma.com/. Again, I do not ship or sell on the internet. An Africa Project donation may be the best option. But is it ethical, given that hub motors lag, lurch and underperform? I like clean builds.

Thank you but I want any legal kit for my bike.

I have been looking at the voilemart brand a lot but they told me that it is not a recommended brand, that it tends to fail. Is true?

Forgive me, it has been awhile since I looked at these.

The 26in clincher front hub is Non-Geared and 750W with a throttle display and is 48/52V. It has brake cut-outs levers and a 20A controller, branded Voilamart. The 29er is perfect. I paid $440US for it with shipping. It is a Internally Geared, a CSC, Carbon Speed Cycle brand and is 36V with 350W. It has an attached 160 disc and 9-Speed freewheel of Nickle plated gears. It also has a throttle with display and a 20A controller with cut-out brake levers.

I do not ship stuff. I work on bikes locally like a dog walker or baby sitter, I am a local bike mechanic who works on bikes I can touch. If you care to see what I am working on these days go to https://pedaluma.com/. Again, I do not ship or sell on the internet. An Africa Project donation may be the best option. But is it ethical, given that hub motors lag, lurch and underperform? I like clean builds.

So, you bought the cheapest hub-motor kit with the crappiest controller that doesn't even have a torque sensor, then you condemn all hub-motor sytems? Brilliant!

Those are very elegant bikes, personally I never understand why folk get an electric bike then try to pretend it isn't, maybe some deep seated guilt feelings or being scared of being called a cheat!

You've done some nice looking work.

Thank you. Isn't it great to have diversity, options and different tastes, just as with music and food.

So, you bought the cheapest hub-motor kit with the crappiest controller that doesn't even have a torque sensor, then you condemn all hub-motor sytems? Brilliant!

I likely did on both counts. Guilty as charged. Most of my (Covid safe) riding mates have commercial rear hub builds and we are friends. My friend Fritz is upgrading to one of these this week:

I have also been told on reddit by Deliveroo riders that 250W is too little power to do the job

Reddit is often very USA-centric. It seems most Americans would regard a 250W motor as barely adequate for a toy (not realising that's the legal limit for PedElecs in Europe), and they are completely unfamiliar with geared hubs.

Reddit is often very USA-centric. It seems most Americans would regard a 250W motor as barely adequate for a toy (not realising that's the legal limit for PedElecs in Europe), and they are completely unfamiliar with geared hubs.

A regular adult sized urban commuter bike (not electric) with 700c wheels will out perform a 20 inch wheel bike with a heavy battery and a 250Watt geared hub motor. Show photos of the finished project.

A regular adult sized urban commuter bike (not electric) with 700c wheels will out perform a 20 inch wheel bike with a heavy battery and a 250Watt geared hub motor. Show photos of the finished project.

It depends what you mean by out-perform. What if the bike is loaded with a heavy load and heavy rider? What about on steep hills? Whatabout moise? My Dahan cruises happily at 22 mph, even up slight hills, without pedalling. I average 14 mph on my road bike that has carbon frame.