September 4, 20232 yr Evening peeps. Finally got myself a Wisper Works 705SE Step-Through and, considering it is over 10 years old, there is hardly a mark on it. However, the brake blocks were a little worn so decided, as a matter of course, to change them for Clarkes, but they 'squeal' badly upon use. Maybe these are a miss-match in some way? But I have used these many times in the past on other bikes without issue. I have tried everything I know in an attempt to sort this problem, including decontaminating the rims with isopropyl alcohol, 'shimming' the brake lever mounting bolts, roughing the block surfaces and 'toeing in' the blocks, but nothing improves the problem. I have now refitted the original brake blocks for the time being. I know they need to 'bed in' but after a week or so I would've expected some improvement. But no! Anyone have an idea what could cause this? Thanks Edited September 4, 20232 yr by chris301up
September 4, 20232 yr I use those exact blocks and the only time they squealed was when my rims were brand new and covered in totally smooth black paint. Once the paint wore away, it stopped.
September 5, 20232 yr Jagwire is what I use, yes Clarks have squealed for me in the past, best to watch a couple of different YT vids on the subject, don't forget they have to point inwards at an angle, only a slight angle, either angle to the front/forward or back; try either way, I can not remember the tech term for it, but it is tricky to get the knack. "Park tool" vids or "RJ the bike guy". I always watch with AD blocker and at 1.25 speed. If I get some use out of their vids, I go back to the vid & disable AD block and play muted & do other tasks, wash pots etc, they might just get a cent or 2 of Ad revenue hopefully or there is "Super Thanks" to chuck em a quid or 2 if they really helped; only if I am flush. Some argue a quid is 98% more than they would get from AD rev, however YT and TAX man take a cut & then there is exchange rate for $$.
September 5, 20232 yr Did you try putting the pads both ways round? The arrow on them is stupid. It says "forwards". What does that mean - forwards relative to the wheel or forwards relative to the bike? Some bikes have the brake in a horizontal position, so it would be up or down. Without seeing that arrow, I'd put the block in with the red bit towards the back of the bike so that the wheel passes that end first.
September 5, 20232 yr Are you toei g the brake blocks in? The back of the brake block need to be out further than the front. When the brakes are pressed against the rim at speed the block will become level due to the braking forces. Undo the bolt, put a small of card onto the back of the brake block, press against the rim and tighten bolt. You can buy tools that help this process Hope this helps
September 5, 20232 yr Toeing in is a waste of time. The blocks will just wear faster until they're flat. On an electric bike, they wear very fast.
September 5, 20232 yr isopropyl alcohol That degrades rubber, avoid getting any on tyres. Until the rubber is completely worn through, so that what remains of the block ie the metal scrapes the metal rim (it's happened), Clarke's are easier on rims than most. Some other brands feature rubber compunds which contain ceramic particles to increase friction - I suspect the OP's original blocks wore the rims very smooth, and Clarke's simply need more time to wear the rims. Rim abrasion will increase with accumulated road dirt, friction will change because of oily road grime, therefore I'd avoid cleaning the wheels until squealing stops. My wheels are permanently filty, so I never enounter this problem unless I buy new rims covered in totally smooth paint.
September 5, 20232 yr You can buy tools that help this process Hope this helps Thanks for the reminder, as I've been meaning to try some tool to speed up fitting the darn things, so I've ordered these. They might have a slight toe-in, which I don't need, but it appears they may prevent blocks being fitted so that they rub against the tyre (annoying). https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354592363818
September 5, 20232 yr Thanks for the reminder, as I've been meaning to try some tool to speed up fitting the darn things, so I've ordered these. They might have a slight toe-in, which I don't need, but it appears they may prevent blocks being fitted so that they rub against the tyre (annoying). https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354592363818 Jeez, you guys¡ What's wrong with your fingers? By the time you've remembered where you put those things and went to get them, you could've been done.
September 5, 20232 yr Jeez, you guys¡ What's wrong with your fingers? It's my eyes! Aaaargggh my eeeeeyyyyeeees!
September 5, 20232 yr It's my eyes! Aaaargggh my eeeeeyyyyeeees! You still have to look and adjust. The only difference is that you have to wiggle the brake block and that thing into position instead of just the brake block. Anyway, don't let me spoil your fun. Have you got a chain wear tool yet? With one of those, you can have hours of fun checking and replacing your chain when you don't need to. Spoke tension tool as well. You can spend many happy evenings checking and adjusting your spokes so that you don't have enough time to spoil your setup by riding your bike. That just leaves the derailleur hanger alignment checker and the bottom bracket outer face squareness tools. Actually, a frame alignment jig might help too. You'd be surprised how far out of line some frames are, and yours might be one of them. Sorry to scare you, but it's only about £1000 for the set, and it's got to be worth it. https://steintool.com/portfolio-items/frame-and-fork-alignment-fixtures/
September 5, 20232 yr Author You still have to look and adjust. The only difference is that you have to wiggle the brake block and that thing into position instead of just the brake block. Anyway, don't let me spoil your fun. Have you got a chain wear tool yet? With one of those, you can have hours of fun checking and replacing your chain when you don't need to. Spoke tension tool as well. You can spend many happy evenings checking and adjusting your spokes so that you don't have enough time to spoil your setup by riding your bike. That just leaves the derailleur hanger alignment checker and the bottom bracket outer face squareness tools. Actually, a frame alignment jig might help too. You'd be surprised how far out of line some frames are, and yours might be one of them. Sorry to scare you, but it's only about £1000 for the set, and it's got to be worth it. https://steintool.com/portfolio-items/frame-and-fork-alignment-fixtures/ Thank you for all the replies guys. Sorry I didn't respond earlier to individual replies. As mentioned many, many times in the past I never get notifications of replies to my posts. Its sooooooo annoying and difficult to keep track of everything. Just an update. I removed the cantilevers today and gave them a good clean. Refitted them with some copper-ease (my preferred lubrication) and fitted some more 'shims' onto the mounting bolts so there isn't any unwanted forward or backward movement. Refitted the Clarkes brake pads in their correct order and direction and 'toed' them in slightly using some card between the brake pad and rim. There is still a slight squealing in use, especially from the front brakes, but overall I think it may have improved slightly? We are off on our hols so don't have time to tinker with the beast now so am hoping that this annoying squealing will diminish over time once in use and the brake blocks have 'bedded in'? I'll try to keep you posted once I return and start using her again. Thanks again everyone!
September 5, 20232 yr toei g the brake blocks Toe-in that was it, I had shoe-in in my head, but that's when you know you have the job...
September 5, 20232 yr Toeing in is a waste of time. The blocks will just wear faster until they're flat. On an electric bike, they wear very fast. I do toe-in for front V-brake, but I mav-rigged a hydraulic pro-bike v-brake on the rear & they are flat mount pads with no option to adjust, the lever is spongy has hell but after 3 years they still work, the pads 12 months old and still going. Amazing for gradual stopping & full on emergency brake with front combined. There was some dude the other day on the foot bridge, I kept well clear, as he had no brakes and there's a sharp down slop at the end, funny as, his head nearly got stuck in the railings at the bottom.
September 10, 20232 yr Author It's my eyes! Aaaargggh my eeeeeyyyyeeees! What's wrong with your eyes?
September 10, 20232 yr What's wrong with your eyes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_serous_chorioretinopathy As with many mysterious ailments they don't know why it happens and there's no cure, and it usually happens to airline pilots... I blame long hours viewing bright blue light from LED monitors at work. CSR is the new RSI for IT workers. If you look at this Amsler grid with one eye and all the lines appear straight, you don't have it in that eye. Also if you don't see big stationary black insect shaped spots. I don't have AMD, but the self-test is the same: Straight lines appear kinky when viewed with one eye, with different kinks each eye, but the brain straightens them out when viewed with both. The black spots obscure vision for about an hour in the morning especially, inconveniently in middle vision, then it goes away until I engage in anything strenuous. Jogging improves matters, after the black spots go away. Someday there will be glasses available preprogrammed to correct the kinks for each eye. My retinas could rupture or swelling could reduce, but kinks will remain. Doesn't affect cycling, because my ebike is set up to not require any effort whatsoever. Bet you're sorry you asked lol! Edited September 10, 20232 yr by guerney
September 10, 20232 yr BTW I ordered these yesterday, which (allegedly) can have pads replaced without having to adjust the brakes all over again: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353765075624 Edited September 10, 20232 yr by guerney
September 10, 20232 yr BTW I ordered these yesterday, which (allegedly) can have pads replaced without having to adjust the brakes all over again: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353765075624 The only problem is that when you wheel the bike out of your shed backwards and accidentally touch the brakes, you realise how well that idea works when you get half-way down your first hill.
September 10, 20232 yr The only problem is that when you wheel the bike out of your shed backwards and accidentally touch the brakes, you realise how well that idea works when you get half-way down your first hill. Only ordered those because replacement pads were sent to me in error, thought it'd try this type out rather than pay for postage and go through the pfaff of returning the pads for a refund. Besides, minimal adjustment at pad replacement time seems a good timesaver, and replacement pads are cheap. I can't wheel my bike backwards - chain falls off lol. Weirdly, it's perfectly happy going forwards. The tiny retaining pins inspire confidence, and the reviews I saw weren't bad. Edited September 10, 20232 yr by guerney
September 10, 20232 yr Only ordered those because replacement pads were sent to me in error, thought it'd try this type out rather than pay for postage and go through the pfaff of returning the pads for a refund. Besides, minimal adjustment at pad replacement time seems a good timesaver. I can't wheel my bike backwards - chain falls off lol. Weirdly, it's perfectly happy going forwards. The tiny retaining pins inspire confidence, and the reviews I saw weren't bad. They'll be fine. All brake pads were like that when I was young and bikes had those side-pull brakes. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285299757758?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1yQd5f7CJQ9Wxs4SluPH3Zw81&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=285299757758&targetid=1816181030139&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045437&poi=&campaignid=19090194174&mkgroupid=147009364227&rlsatarget=pla-1816181030139&abcId=9303860&merchantid=263025903&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0vWnBhC6ARIsAJpJM6f5yTrHVHIgYfWyGbUjzavgwz72yIO5P4IsTPAK3tmUIZtQ_aeFTvUaAu2zEALw_wcB
September 13, 20232 yr When I received these today, for a split second I worried they'd make my bike look posh. But then I looked at my bike, and laughed at the notion. Edited September 13, 20232 yr by guerney
September 14, 20232 yr Isn't (brake block) squeal due to resonance? Bit like wiping a wet finger around the rim of a glass? The Clarkes brake blocks are (apparently) designed for MTB/Hybrid bikes, probably targeting 29" MTB's and 700c Hybrids, both with 28" wheels. The Wisper 705 comes in 24" and 26" flavour as far as I can tell. Doesn't that suggest the Clarkes super-duper triple density brake blocks may be producing some unexpected resonance because they are fitted to wheels with a smaller circumference than the wheels they might be designed for? The asymmetry of the design with a longer trailing edge looks like a good way to induce resonance too. These symmetric brake blocks ar so cheap they could be cut to a suitable size - if necessary. "Suitable" meaning both sides are short enough to be squeal free? This 'resonance issue' is a suggestion, not statement of fact BTW.
September 14, 20232 yr Isn't (brake block) squeal due to resonance? Bit like wiping a wet finger around the rim of a glass? The Clarkes brake blocks are (apparently) designed for MTB/Hybrid bikes, probably targeting 29" MTB's and 700c Hybrids, both with 28" wheels. The Wisper 705 comes in 24" and 26" flavour as far as I can tell. Doesn't that suggest the Clarkes super-duper triple density brake blocks may be producing some unexpected resonance because they are fitted to wheels with a smaller circumference than the wheels they might be designed for? The asymmetry of the design with a longer trailing edge looks like a good way to induce resonance too. These symmetric brake blocks ar so cheap they could be cut to a suitable size - if necessary. [ATTACH type=full" alt="54001]54001[/ATTACH] "Suitable" meaning both sides are short enough to be squeal free? This 'resonance issue' is a suggestion, not statement of fact BTW. Hi FF, this is a very interesting point. Let me get back to you, my immediate thoughts are; as this issue happens rarely there may be another cause, but certainly it’s worth me checking. All the best, David
September 14, 20232 yr Hi FF, this is a very interesting point. Let me get back to you, my immediate thoughts are; as this issue happens rarely there may be another cause, but certainly it’s worth me checking. All the best, David All good, the brakes and pads weare correct for the wheel sizes. And of course we only supply hydraulic disc brakes now on all our bikes. All the best, David Edited September 14, 20232 yr by Wisper Bikes
September 14, 20232 yr "Suitable" meaning both sides are short enough to be squeal free? Same style I use on 26" but branded jagwire, swear by em.
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