Very interesting watch

 

At what point does he explain all?

At what point does he explain all?

I'll explain it all: EU Protectionism.

597 kilowatts (kW). so 800bhp ill have one of those and the software to programme it

At the start the guy says its about a 'global classification for electric mountain bike motors'

At the start the guy says its about a 'global classification for electric mountain bike motors'

Yes. A global standard of 750w max output would kill demand for DJI's offering stone dead. This is nothing more than an attempt to shore up EU manufacturing. I'm pro EU and can see this as clear as day.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt36462227/

 

Edited May 5, 2025May 5 by lenny

Yes. A global standard of 750w max output would kill demand for DJI's offering stone dead. This is nothing more than an attempt to shore up EU manufacturing. I'm pro EU and can see this as clear as day.

 

Although I agree, that isn't the whole story. The USA with their new three classes law for pedelecs has fallen into line with the rest of the world's adoption of EU law, but with the difference of stating 750 watts rather than the EU similar permission disguised as "Continuous Rated Maximum Power".

 

With the USA an important market Bosch naturally want to fall into line with that for marketing convenience.

 

LINK

.

I doubt any change is likely to happen soon in the UK - they've only just recently rejected 500W after a consultation, wake me up if it ever does here.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/smarter-regulation-proposed-changes-to-legislation-for-electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles/outcome/proposed-changes-to-legislation-for-electrically-asisted-pedal-cycles-outcome

 

I'll explain it all: EU Protectionism.

 

Ve vill turn zis DJI threat to opportunity and dominate the vorld haha! Sieg Bosch! How do vu laak dem schnitzels Chinese communist peasants?

Edited May 5, 2025May 5 by guerney

I think that Bosch guy made a lot of sense with what he said. 750w maximum power output would be easy to measure. It's roughly 22A at 48v, which should be enough to get a 100kg rider up the steepest hills they're likely to encounter without getting a heart attack. I don't know where that leaves the cargo bikes and those pedal assisted Amazon delivery vans. They would fall outside the EAPC classification, which doesn't sound too unreasonable to me.

nother problem I thought of is that the 750w max output power wouldn't be easy for the police or anybody else to check. They'd need a dynamometer. When I said it would be easy to meaure in ny previous post, I meant in a lab if there were any dispute about it, not at the roadside. You can imagine that when motors have 750w on them, some people are going to run them at 25A or more, though there wouldn't be a lot to gain from that if they're limited to 15.5 mph.

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm tending to think that the Bosch guy is wrong. The amount of power you have over 750w doesn't matter if it cuts off at 15.5mph. The extra power would just be an embarassment. What can you do with it? They might as well abolish the power limit and just concentrate on enforcing the speed. It's the speed that makes a difference between a bicycle and a motorbike, not the power, and you have to pedal an EAPC to get any power. If you're limited on speed to 15.5mp, it makes an incentive to keep the power low anyway, since power above 750w would only give disadvantages in most cases.

Edited May 5, 2025May 5 by saneagle

Agreed, for most of us. 750W and 100kg all up climbs 8.5% at 15.5mph.

 

Pedestrians would get caught out if the acceleration were unexpectedly high. I don't know if the police are allowed to test in motion but a time to reach, say, 15kph would be more pertinent than a power limit, and we know what would happen with no limit at all.

 

I hope the EC body doesn't fall for Bosch's 'blended' presentation mixing law with their offering. If they were to put a limit on % assistance in a protectionist effort to undermine hub-motor bikes it would boot the elderly, the less able or obese and riders with trailers (non-commercial) into a separate class - not good at all.

i told peter 7 years ago to make ceramic bearings and all titanium internal parts as said no one whould pay for it

nother problem I thought of is that the 750w max output power wouldn't be easy for the police or anybody else to check.

 

They wouldn't need to. Manufacturer's certificate of conformity. = Legal.

my bikes not legal got all the epac stickers tho ;)

 

and i got unlimited motor warranty

They wouldn't need to. Manufacturer's certificate of conformity. = Legal.

Motors don't have a power, so there's no way a COC can certify it. The power depends on the controller and battery.

Motors don't have a power, so there's no way a COC can certify it. The power depends on the controller and battery.

I should have been clearer. I wasn't talking about the motor. I was talking about the whole manufactured bike. Any bike without a cert won't conform.

I should have been clearer. I wasn't talking about the motor. I was talking about the whole manufactured bike. Any bike without a cert won't conform.

What about DIY ebikes then?

What about DIY ebikes then?

I don't think Bosch cares.

Remember he was talking about E mountain bikes, not road/commuter bikes.

 

The current speed limit cut off is pretty irrelevant off road, but power and how it is delivered is relevant on technical steep climbs.

 

Downhill again the cut off speed and even the need for any assistance at all is almost irrelevant on steep technical descents where it is all about the brakes suspension and handling.

If these new regulations come to fruition, surely DJI's response will be to limit the output to 750w, slap a 250w sticker on it and offer it to the global market as indestructibly over-engineered.

 

I can see it now...

"DJI - Built better than Bosch".

They'd only need to change the DJI app to limit to 750W, or simply leave 1000W optional and let users decide whether to break the law.

 

I was reading about how China is dumping yarn at low prices all over India, I wonder how long it'll be before DJI offer seriously low prices to ebike integrators/manufacturers in Europe and the UK? Doubling down by making 1000W permanent via the app sounds promising - perhaps they plan to sell as many as possible in case new regs come into effect?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg5d505v8xo

 

I can't buy a DJI, I is not a DJ. They could remotely make the bike commit hari kari by making it a mandatory update. That's been done to my devices before. I hate and now actively avoid everything which requires an app to function.

DJI strikes back!!!

 

https://singletrackworld.com/2025/05/dji-does-not-agree-with-proposed-e-bike-rule-changes/

https://www.mbr.co.uk/news/dji-publishes-statement-in-response-to-eu-motor-limit-proposals-449576

Official statement from DJI in full:

 

1. The proposed restriction of 750 W does not appear to have a clear theoretical foundation justifying why this specific limit has been chosen. We believe it is essential for the industry to engage in more thorough and comprehensive discussions to determine an appropriate power limit.

 

2. The imposition of a 750 W limit may overlook the needs of certain vulnerable groups, including individuals with disabilities who require enhanced assistance, those with higher body weights, minors, and users of e-cargo bikes for transporting supplies, where often involve loads up to 400 kg, necessitating additional support when navigating inclined terrains. We urge policymakers to consider these unique requirements in their deliberations.

 

(Additionally, It is also important to recognize that in scenarios involving e-cargo bikes, users with higher body weights etc., the riding speed tends to be significantly lower than the speed limit. Consequently, the associated kinetic energy and the likelihood of potential injuries remain low and within acceptable safety standards.)

 

(E-Cargo bikes might need to be discussed separately, as there might be a separate classification for e-cargo in the future? We support the establishment of more nuanced classifications and standards within the industry, rather than imposing a blanket lower power restriction across the board. It is our position that a tailored approach would better address the diverse needs and applications within this sector.)

 

3. Our pursuit of enhanced power is driven by the goal of improving the riding experience (while maintaining a balance between the wear and cost of easily worn components), rather than merely increasing power for its own sake. For instance, the Avinox’s power output is intelligently modulated, automatically decreasing power and torque during gear shifts. This strategy extends the life of the transmission system, ensuring an optimal balance between performance, safety, and reliability.

 

4. It is crucial to remain critical regarding certain practices within the industry that are exploiting user needs, where certain manufacturers differentiate their products by imposing subscription-based fees or offering superior performance or features exclusively for premium models, despite identical hardware components. They profit primarily through software limitations. This highlights the critical importance of prioritizing genuine user needs and maintaining transparency in product offerings.

 

5. We recognize the need for more adaptable solutions for eMTB riders, including scene-based power modes and user-adjustable settings, which we have successfully developed and implemented. These features allow users to tailor the power mode (including the highest power setting) to meet varying situational demands, such as requiring greater power when starting the ride or ascending hills, thereby enhancing the overall riding experience within legal speed limits. This innovation has been widely validated in the market.

 

6. We’re closely monitoring the EU regulations and we are committed to adhere to established guidelines. We are also committed to providing our users with support in light of any regulatory changes that may impact our products. Should such circumstances arise, we will ensure that our end users and OEM bike brands have access to the necessary resources and guidance for adaptations.

 

7. Avinox represents more than merely power output; its innovation is reflected in various features, such as its compact size and lightweight design, impressive power-to-weight ratio, seamless software-hardware integration, advanced smart-assist algorithms, lightweight yet high-capacity battery, rapid charging capabilities and more. All these elements underscore Avinox’s commitment to enhancing user experience and exemplify our dedication to innovation.

 

8. Since its launch, Avinox has swiftly garnered acclaim from OEM bike brands, users, and top tier media outlets and organizations, underscoring the importance for the industry to heed these voices.

 

 

The day is saved! Heavy hill trailer haulers rejoice! Rapid Fatso will be able to buy a legal bike after all?

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2025May 6 by guerney

“There is not one bike not being sold because of a lack of power. This is an artificial craziness” Bosch’s CEO speaks about e-bike legislation and why the brand won’t be looking to develop more powerful motors anytime soon

Everyone's worried about potential changes to e-bike legislation. But what does the CEO of Bosch eBike Systems, Claus Fleischer, think about them?

https://www.mbr.co.uk/news/bosch-ceo-gives-opinion-on-e-bike-legislation-449815