All is not what it seem's then. Rather than automatically pointing the finger of guilt at the car driver without hearing both side's of the story is a tad unfair.

My impression on reading the thread was that as the cyclist and car were level passing the first car it may have been that the cyclist may have pulled into the path of the car leaving him insufficient time to slow down, its not an impossibility.

Had the cyclist been another car or motorcycle travelling along the nearside and encountered parked vehicle's to manouvre around, they should indicate their intention to pull out into the faster moving traffic and wait until that traffic has past and its safe to do so. Simply expecting faster moving traffic to slow for you is asking for trouble in my opinion. You wouldn't pull over into the fast lane of a motorway to pass a slower vehicle in front without first indicating and waiting until its clear to do so.

 

I think you must be reading a different post to me.

Here's a view of a section of the lateral road repairs. They're deteriorated a lot over the winter since this Google Maps pic was taken. To cycle through here safely, you really need to be in the middle of the road!

 

If this is the road you were cycling along I can now see your predicament. Passing a cyclist on this road even without parked car's would take a degree of care, especially with oncoming traffic. I mistakenly assumed you were on a much wider road from your description of cars parked on both side's.

I think you must be reading a different post to me.

 

Can you elaborate on that?

All is not what it seem's then. Rather than automatically pointing the finger of guilt at the car driver without hearing both side's of the story is a tad unfair.

My impression on reading the thread was that as the cyclist and car were level passing the first car it may have been that the cyclist may have pulled into the path of the car leaving him insufficient time to slow down, its not an impossibility.

Had the cyclist been another car or motorcycle travelling along the nearside and encountered parked vehicle's to manouvre around, they should indicate their intention to pull out into the faster moving traffic and wait until that traffic has past and its safe to do so. Simply expecting faster moving traffic to slow for you is asking for trouble in my opinion. You wouldn't pull over into the fast lane of a motorway to pass a slower vehicle in front without first indicating and waiting until its clear to do so.

 

 

 

 

There is a difference between this situation and the motorway example you give. Unlike a motorway these are not marked lanes we are riding down, but roads. What you are saying is that we should ride in the gutter and if a car parks in your way you have to ask permission to go round it! It is a just a road and it is your right of way to cycle down the road regardless of whether or not there are parked cars in the way. Drivers should expect you to go past the parked car in the same way any other vehicle would go past that parked car. It is not common practice for cars to indicate to go past parked cars, certainly not in London anyway. I think a lot of drivers think that cyclists are of a lower status and they "allow" them to use the road as long as they stick in the gutter and don't hold them up but it is not like that. You have equal status and it is up to the vehicle behind to over-take safely.

 

Personally I am out in the road whenever I see a parked car and don't move over even in the gaps where I could - I have met far too many drivers like you who don't let me out again once in the gutter, so their loss.

Edited October 13, 201015 yr by HarryB

Can you elaborate on that?

 

I think you have answered this yourself in your post...

 

"If this is the road you were cycling along I can now see your predicament. Passing a cyclist on this road even without parked car's would take a degree of care, especially with oncoming traffic. I mistakenly assumed you were on a much wider road from your description of cars parked on both side's."

I think you have answered this yourself in your post...

 

"If this is the road you were cycling along I can now see your predicament. Passing a cyclist on this road even without parked car's would take a degree of care, especially with oncoming traffic. I mistakenly assumed you were on a much wider road from your description of cars parked on both side's."

 

Well you must admit the description of cars parked both side's with traffic passing between them doesn't exactly fit the description of a narrow residential road, as shown in the picture.

All is not what it seem's then. Rather than automatically pointing the finger of guilt at the car driver without hearing both side's of the story is a tad unfair.

My impression on reading the thread was that as the cyclist and car were level passing the first car it may have been that the cyclist may have pulled into the path of the car leaving him insufficient time to slow down, its not an impossibility.

Had the cyclist been another car or motorcycle travelling along the nearside and encountered parked vehicle's to manouvre around, they should indicate their intention to pull out into the faster moving traffic and wait until that traffic has past and its safe to do so. Simply expecting faster moving traffic to slow for you is asking for trouble in my opinion. You wouldn't pull over into the fast lane of a motorway to pass a slower vehicle in front without first indicating and waiting until its clear to do so.

 

Err, I didn't. Read the rest of my posts. I was already overtaking cars and had 'stayed out' for these two. No pulling out in front of faster vehicles or anything like that.

Edited October 13, 201015 yr by dkohara

Had the cyclist been another car or motorcycle travelling along the nearside and encountered parked vehicle's to manouvre around, they should indicate their intention to pull out into the faster moving traffic and wait until that traffic has past and its safe to do so. Simply expecting faster moving traffic to slow for you is asking for trouble in my opinion. You wouldn't pull over into the fast lane of a motorway to pass a slower vehicle in front without first indicating and waiting until its clear to do so.

 

No lane changing took place onmebike. That is an entirely different situation covered by different rules.

 

You seem to be suggesting that any slow moving vehicle should in someway come to a halt behind a line of parked cars in order to give way to faster moving traffic. Only once all the faster cars have passed, should the slow vehicle pull out and overtake the stationary vehicles. It doesn't work like that. The faster moving driver should anticipate the potential hazard (slow vehicle pulling out), and plan accordingly. In this case, slow down, follow the slow vehicle through the hazard and then overtake once clear. To just, "go for it" because a bike is narrow and you might be able to squeeze through isn't really an option.

There is a difference between this situation and the motorway example you give. Unlike a motorway these are not marked lanes we are riding down, but roads. What you are saying is that we should ride in the gutter and if a car parks in your way you have to ask permission to go round it! It is a just a road and it is your right of way to cycle down the road regardless of whether or not there are parked cars in the way. Drivers should expect you go past the parked car in the same way any other vehicle would go past that parked car. It is not common practice for cars to indicate to go past parked cars, certainly not in London anyway. I think a lot of drivers think that cyclists are of a lower status and they "allow" them to use the road as long as they stick in the gutter and don't hold them up but it is not like that. You have equal status and it is up to the vehicle behind to over-take safely.

 

Personally I am out in the road whenever I see a parked car and don't move over even in the gaps where I could - I have met far too many drivers like you who don't let me out again once in the gutter, so their loss.

 

Having seen the photo, I can now see my mistake. I wrongly assumed from the description of cars parked both sides with moving traffic passing between them that the road was much wider, possibly two lanes in either direction?

Well you must admit the description of cars parked both side's with traffic passing between them doesn't exactly fit the description of a narrow residential road, as shown in the picture.

 

No I don't agree, I had a clear picture of the incident from the original post, and that was then confirmed by further posts by the op.

If this is the road you were cycling along I can now see your predicament. Passing a cyclist on this road even without parked car's would take a degree of care, especially with oncoming traffic. I mistakenly assumed you were on a much wider road from your description of cars parked on both side's.

 

Yes, that's the very same road, although not at the point the accident happened. Houses on the right have drives, houses on the left mostly do not, so typically park in the street. I included the car to show how much of the road a parked car takes up, and also to give an indication of where a car overtaking me must have been relative to the rest of the road. In short, he'd be on the wrong side of the road. When a junction is 50 yards ahead, this is not a clever place to be, especially when he notices oncoming traffic, so he pulled over left, sandwiching me into an ever decreasing gap. He slowed as I slowed, so we stayed alongside one another, then he clipped me.

No lane changing took place onmebike. That is an entirely different situation covered by different rules.

 

You seem to be suggesting that any slow moving vehicle should in someway come to a halt behind a line of parked cars in order to give way to faster moving traffic. Only once all the faster cars have passed, should the slow vehicle pull out and overtake the stationary vehicles. It doesn't work like that. The faster moving driver should anticipate the potential hazard (slow vehicle pulling out), and plan accordingly. In this case, slow down, follow the slow vehicle through the hazard and then overtake once clear. To just, "go for it" because a bike is narrow and you might be able to squeeze through isn't really an option.

 

Since seeing the photo I realise there was no lane change although the original post doesn't actually state this. I thought from the description the road was several lane's in either direction? Parked cars both side's with traffic passing between them etc.

With regard to slow moving or parked vehicle's moving out into the flow of faster moving traffic its the vehicle pulling out that is ultimately responsible for doing so safely. Yes in an ideal world the faster moving traffic will slow to allow you to pull out but thats only etiquette not law. The highway code actually state's that when overtaking or changing lane's you must not force other road user's to slow down, change course or swerve. Indicate your intention's and proceed when safe to do so. Section 133 Lane discipline and section 167 Overtaking.

Edited October 13, 201015 yr by onmebike

Yes, that's the very same road, although not at the point the accident happened. Houses on the right have drives, houses on the left mostly do not, so typically park in the street. I included the car to show how much of the road a parked car takes up, and also to give an indication of where a car overtaking me must have been relative to the rest of the road. In short, he'd be on the wrong side of the road. When a junction is 50 yards ahead, this is not a clever place to be, especially when he notices oncoming traffic, so he pulled over left, sandwiching me into an ever decreasing gap. He slowed as I slowed, so we stayed alongside one another, then he clipped me.

 

Yes, I was mistaken in my assumption of it being a wider road. My apologies if I offended you in any way.

No I don't agree, I had a clear picture of the incident from the original post, and that was then confirmed by further posts by the op.

 

Cars parked opposite each other with cars passing in between them as described in the original thread would need a much wider road than that shown in the picture. I must therefore assume the parked cars were actually staggered and not opposite each other.

Yes, I was mistaken in my assumption of it being a wider road. My apologies if I offended you in any way.

 

I don't think you have offended anybody. We all have our views on these things and you are entitled to your views on this forum (even if on this occasion you are wrong )

I don't think you have offended anybody. We all have our views on these things and you are entitled to your views on this forum (even if on this occasion you are right )

 

Mistaken is much easier to swallow

 

Didn't know you could do that?

Since seeing the photo I realise there was no lane change. I thought from the description the road was several lane's in either direction? Parked cars both side's with traffic passing between them etc.

With regard to slow moving or parked vehicle's moving out into the flow of faster moving traffic its the vehicle pulling out that is ultimately responsible for doing so safely. Yes in an ideal world the faster moving traffic will slow to allow you to pull out but thats only etiquette not law. The highway code actually state's that when overtaking or changing lane's you must not force other road user's to slow down, change course or swerve. Indicate your intention's and proceed when safe to do so. Section 133 Lane discipline and section 167 Overtaking.

 

I think our posts crossed onmebike. I hadn't seen your update after viewing the photograph.

 

I still can't agree with your thoughts on slow moving traffic having to give way to faster traffic on the approach to a parked vehicle. You can't just force slow movers into the gutter and make them wait. It is the responsibility of the driver making the overtake manoeuvre to make sure that it is safe to do so. You can't expect everyone to pull over into your wake as you steam roller your way through the hazard.

 

You don't drive an Audi do you?

I think our posts crossed onmebike. I hadn't seen your update after viewing the photograph.

 

I still can't agree with your thoughts on slow moving traffic having to give way to faster traffic on the approach to a parked vehicle. You can't just force slow movers into the gutter and make them wait. It is the responsibility of the driver making the overtake manoeuvre to make sure that it is safe to do so. You can't expect everyone to pull over into your wake as you steam roller your way through the hazard.

 

You don't drive an Audi do you?

 

 

Not my thoughts, its in the highway code. I assume passing parked vehicle's is technically overtaking.

Its not a case of forcing anyone into the gutter, being on the inside of faster moving traffic they are already there and need to pull into the faster flowing traffic to manouvre around the parked vehicle's. You could say that its the slower moving traffic that must anticipate the hazard ahead and prepare for it early or get stuck behind it waiting for a break in the flow of traffic. Forcing faster moving traffic on the outside of you to slow down suddenly could cause all sorts of problems.

I suppose the simplest way of determining who has priority is the vehicle with the hazard/obstruction directly ahead is the one who should give way because it is they that need negotiate around the hazard. Its exactly the same with oncoming traffic, if the obstruction is on your side of the road you must give way to oncoming traffic.

Not my thoughts, its in the highway code. I assume passing parked vehicle's is technically overtaking.

Its not a case of forcing anyone into the gutter, being on the inside of faster moving traffic they are already there and need to pull into the faster flowing traffic to manouvre around the parked vehicle's. You could say that its the slower moving traffic that must anticipate the hazard ahead and prepare for it early or get stuck behind it waiting for a break in the flow of traffic. Forcing faster moving traffic on the outside of you to slow down suddenly could cause all sorts of problems.

I suppose the simplest way of determining who has priority is the vehicle with the hazard/obstruction directly ahead is the one who should give way because it is they that need negotiate around the hazard. Its exactly the same with oncoming traffic, if the obstruction is on your side of the road you must give way to oncoming traffic.

 

Onmebike, your views are quite scary! Just think, there are many out there who share them and that makes me wonder whether I should be venturing out on the roads tomorrow.

 

No I don't think going past a parked car is over-taking - as I said you are just riding down the road and it doesn't matter whether there are parked cars or not, you have a right to do so. Anybody in front of you has automatic right of way if they are on the road, regardless of whether they are a car, motorcycle or bicycle. Do you constantly drive on other cars tails trying to over-take them? I must admit there is nothing more annoying than that sort or driver.

 

Be careful out there.

Not my thoughts, its in the highway code. I assume passing parked vehicle's is technically overtaking.

Its not a case of forcing anyone into the gutter, being on the inside of faster moving traffic they are already there and need to pull into the faster flowing traffic to manouvre around the parked vehicle's. You could say that its the slower moving traffic that must anticipate the hazard ahead and prepare for it early or get stuck behind it waiting for a break in the flow of traffic. Forcing faster moving traffic on the outside of you to slow down suddenly could cause all sorts of problems.

I suppose the simplest way of determining who has priority is the vehicle with the hazard/obstruction directly ahead is the one who should give way because it is they that need negotiate around the hazard. Its exactly the same with oncoming traffic, if the obstruction is on your side of the road you must give way to oncoming traffic.

 

I can only think that we may be talking at slightly cross purposes. If we are considering a dual carriageway and cars are parked in the left hand lane, forcing slower cars into the right hand lane, then I think you are right in what you / the highway code says. However, on a single carriageway, which I believe is the type of road on which this incident occurred, then it is never the case that the driver in front has responsibility to give way to a following driver wanting to go through the hazard three abreast whilst initiating an overtake that he may or may not be able to pull off.

 

I've not got a copy of the highway code to hand, but I think you have been looking at dual carriageways or motorways. At least I hope you are.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way onmebike, but it frightens me to think that you might own a car and actually drive it in places to which the public have access.

The problem comes when the thinking that says "going past parked cars isn't overtaking" is extended a bit to "going past parked cars and cyclists isn't overtaking" which is exactly how some drivers seem to act.

 

In the original post the car left the flow of traffic to overtake the cyclist only to be forced back into the flow prematurely by an oncoming car. The driver may not have seen it that way though, seeing as the flow of traffic consisted of just one bike, he may well of thought as the only car going in that direction he was the flow of traffic.

Out of the blue

 

The frightening thing about bike accidents is that they can come completely out of the blue.

 

I was riding down Newmarket High Street on a quiet Sunday afternoon with no traffic about when a pickup reversed out of a side turning at far too high a speed and bounced me on my head (and helmet.) I ended up at death's door in hospital with holes being drilled in my head to relieve blood pressure between the brain (yes! there was one) and the skull.

 

A year later I collected a cheque for seven and a half grand by way of a payout but frankly it is money I would rather earn some other way. On average a cyclist gets either injured or killed around here about once a month. Last death was last week.

 

About the only thing that gets respect, I find, is riding in a dark blue outfit with a very official looking high vis yellow jacket. Drivers seem to associate it with the police or at least officialdom and either hang back or give you acres of room.

 

Rod

Now there's an idea. What about a cycle helmet with a blue light on the top?

 

onmebike seems to referring to a completely different set of circumstances to mine. Wasn't on a dual carriageway (never ever said I was), there was a car parked on the other side of the street (not that cars were parked in parallel on both sides of the street). Assumed i'd pulled out in front of someone (when i'd been on the same lateral for 200yds). Said I should give way to a faster outside lane (there wasn't one, up here in North East England we call it 'the other side of the road'). You say we should anticipate the hazard ahead. There wasn't a hazard ahead in my case, the hazard approached from the rear, then the side.

 

Please ask in future onmebike, before assuming things and condemning without the full facts.

Edited October 14, 201015 yr by dkohara

Passing parked cars would be seen as the road narrowing, however, Overtaking is detailed in the HWC here:

 

Overtaking (162-169) : Directgov - Travel and transport

 

and....

 

Road users requiring extra care (204-225) : Directgov - Travel and transport

Edited October 14, 201015 yr by NRG

Onmebike, your views are quite scary! Just think, there are many out there who share them and that makes me wonder whether I should be venturing out on the roads tomorrow.

 

No I don't think going past a parked car is over-taking - as I said you are just riding down the road and it doesn't matter whether there are parked cars or not, you have a right to do so. Anybody in front of you has automatic right of way if they are on the road, regardless of whether they are a car, motorcycle or bicycle. Do you constantly drive on other cars tails trying to over-take them? I must admit there is nothing more annoying than that sort or driver.

 

Be careful out there.

 

I'm not talking about the narrow residential road highlighted in this thread and you can check my claims in the highway code, section 133 and 167.

As you say everyone has a right to use the road, on that we agree. But, there are proper procedure's to follow. Whether the obstruction ahead is a single parked car, road works, stationary bus at a bus stop or anything else that involve's slower moving vehicle's having to pull out into the flow of faster moving traffic, they simply shoudn't pull out forcing the faster moving traffic to slow or brake suddenly. Its the same for stationary vehicle's pulling out into the flow of moving traffic, they wait for a break in the flow of traffic.

Yes, many drivers do slow to allow you into their lane but that isn't law.

No I don't drive on other cars tails nor have I ever run into the back of another vehicle in 44yrs of driving. I only overtake on dual carriageways, motorways or where slow moving vehicle's are holding up the flow of traffic. I've passed every test taken including cycling proficiency, motorcycle and car first time and would be happy to take them all again.