In fact the Advance made 14 Ah battery that eZee and Wisper use has very good high discharge characteristics, managing 27 amps from my personal experience with an eZee bike.

 

The eZee version coupled with their carrier mount might make a good alternative to buying a BionX replacement at half the BionX 10 Ah price and giving longer range.

.

 

As usual Tony, I have to agree with every word you say;) .

 

But, no apology for going off thread here, I just noticed you are over 16.5k posts, absolutely and completely amazing:eek:

 

J:) hn

I only like mid-motors because from my point of view, hill terrain, hub motor´s is stupid

 

 

regards

frank

 

Hi Frank,

 

I hope I have understood you correctly, but you prefer mid or crank driven motors to hub motors for hilly terrain which I understand, but you sell hub motors. Is that because you prefer them on flat terrain?

 

J:) hn

sorry, this is your point of fewing but this is not the point of everyone.

 

Understand right, i´m relly not a fan of bionx-system because there is to much trouble in this system and the support is also not what i eccpect from such expencive system but...

 

i´m a man with technic intrest and from this point of viewing Bionx is a intresting system with a lot of advance in relation to the cheap china products. And as i said, if you have money to buy a bionx system, why not

 

a Volkswagen also drive from a-->b but with a ferrari you can drive faster and feel the power if you drive from a-->b the question is whether for this feeling is it a good idea to pay the double price?

so bionx is the double price of china Product, if i would follow your argument nobody would buy a ferrari but it isnt this way.

What i mean is that everybody have his own view and arguments why he buy or would like to have or would never buy...

and bionx is one of the most selled ebike system, so i would not say it is a niche product and it shows that many people dont follow your point of view, because we are human and verybody, thank god, is different in his viewing

 

regards

frank

 

OK it is a niche product end of story - better? By the way it is nowhere near a best seller - how many of those rubbish chinese bikes are sold all over the world. In London I have never seen a Bionx equipped bike, plenty of Panasonics, ezees etc. As I have said before on this forum I seriously considered a Bionx bike but it was ruled out on a number of points (and yes as you say support was a major one).

 

But if we want a car analogy I think the wankel engine would work quite well on most levels. Wonderful concept, very smooth, fewer moving parts etc but in reality not many miles to the gallon meant it was always going to be a niche product (even when they got the reliability right). Mainstream buyers were never going to pay for that fuel consumption even for something so technically advanced.

 

By the way I would pay more for a technical innovation provided it actually added some value so I am not the average Joe.

Edited February 18, 201115 yr by HarryB

Hi Frank,

 

I hope I have understood you correctly, but you prefer mid or crank driven motors to hub motors for hilly terrain which I understand, but you sell hub motors. Is that because you prefer them on flat terrain?

 

J:) hn

 

hi john,

 

on flat terrain nobody need mid drive ;-) a cheap hub doe his job on flat terrain absolut good.

 

i sell at time only hub´s because there is no good chaindrive system on the market ;-(

the pansonic or the Daum is very well but you cant fix them to normal bikes and the cyclone (is selled in many different names) is to noise and i like silent motor because i think a e-bike should be silent

 

regards

frank

 

so i build my own mid-motor at time and in end of march is ready for to sell, silent and able to fix on every bike, i hope.

Edited February 18, 201115 yr by mechaniker

Batterys

 

The Battery pack I have built uses 20 X 3.2 volt total 64 volts 16 AH cells Rated at 10 c charge and discharge so it can output 160 amps the BMS is 80 amp continues 160 amps peak for 20 seconds so the BMS dont shut down

 

With a 18 mosfet controller ruining at 60 amps continues without getting warm uses IRFB4110 fets max 180 amps 100 volts

 

now that's a battery It weighs 14 Kilos all in one box just add motor and throttle

 

but i don't think anybody on this forum can afford one it cost more than 99p Try £2,000

 

 

Frank

Edited February 18, 201115 yr by banbury frank

 

but are you sure that the ezee battery allow´s to send 10Ampere back to the battery because on level 4 at regenbrake there comes a lot of watts back to battery ?

 

regards

frank

 

True, it may well not allow that Frank, and I should have mentioned the possibility.

 

However, many BionX owners never use regen, not having conditions ideal for it like long downhills. For the many in the UK in either flatter areas or with short downhills not worth switching for, the eZee battery would be a good cost saving option.

.

on flat terrain nobody need mid drive ;-) a cheap hub doe his job on flat terrain absolut good.

 

i sell at time only hub´s because there is no good chaindrive system on the market ;-(

the pansonic or the Daum is very well but you cant fix it to normal bikes and the cyclone (is selled in many different names) is to noise and i like silent motor because i think a e-bike should be silent

 

regards

frank

 

so i build my own motor at time and in end of march is ready for to sell, silent and aqble to fix on every bike, i hope.

 

I look forward to reading more about the motor you are building.

 

J:) hn

 

but i don't think anybody on this forum can afford one it cost more than 99p

 

 

Frank

 

Plenty of people spend a fortune on their ebike here on this forum - usually the argument is made the other way and in the end we are accused of looking down on those not spending enough on a bike:D

 

ps I see you have added £2000 To your post!

 

But, no apology for going off thread here, I just noticed you are over 16.5k posts, absolutely and completely amazing:eek:

 

J:) hn

 

Not being a touch typist and fed up with my keyboards losing all their lettering through wear, I bought a little engraving tool and now engrave the letters into the keys and ink fill them!

.

Not being a touch typist and fed up with my keyboards losing all their lettering through wear, I bought a little engraving tool and now engrave the letters into the keys and ink fill them!

.

 

Yeh right Tony, pull the other one;)........ or are you serious:confused:

 

J:) hn

In fact the Advance made 14 Ah battery that eZee and Wisper use has very good high discharge characteristics, managing 27 amps from my personal experience with an eZee bike.

 

The eZee version coupled with their carrier mount might make a good alternative to buying a BionX replacement at half the BionX 10 Ah price and giving longer range.

.

 

Flecc. You are correct the Bionx sellers I've fealty with (in north America) themselves recommend the Ezee kit as a less costly alternative to the Bionx.

By the way I would pay more for a technical innovation provided it actually added some value so I am not the average Joe.

 

hi Harry,

i see that you are not average joe and like to spend some money for good bike´s

 

And i belief in thinking about most points we are not far away.

 

for me a good ebike is leight weight, absolut silent, very good climbing ability, good range, and , if i look in my own wallet ;-) it should be cheap

that´s why i have decide to build my own motor after i have seen that no chinese company do this and the big companys like bosch spend to much knowledge in protect the Motor against self build people. And i vist exhibition worldwide, even in china or Taiwan or europe and dont see that one company present to me a resonabel mid-motor-system for self mounting on most bike frame´s

 

For everyone is something on the market and everyone prefer different points on a bike system.

 

You know, for me regen is not relly a main point for buying because with regen follows to much trouble but i think its is intresting, not for charge the battery, more for to protect the brakeshoes;-)

 

regards

frank

Edited February 18, 201115 yr by mechaniker

 

Yeh right Tony, pull the other one;)........ or are you serious:confused:

 

J:) hn

 

Yes, seriously. The letters that disappear most are W, E, R, T, A, S, O and L, all now engraved and inked in on the board I'm on. Easy to see now since many are a bit larger than the originals as you see here. As the others wear as many are already doing, I'll do the same again:

 

[ATTACH]1812.vB[/ATTACH]

Edited February 18, 201115 yr by flecc

You know, for me regen is not relly a main point for buying because with regen folows to much trouble but i think its is intresting, not for charge the battery, more for to protect the brakeshoes;-)

 

regards

frank

 

Like you say Frank, when I had my Bionx, I used the regen for the rear brake and doubt if it made much contribution to battery charging.

 

J:) hn

Yes, seriously. The letters that disappear most are W, E, R, T, A, S, O and L, all now engraved and inked in on the board I'm on. Easy to see now since many are a bit larger than the originals as you see here:

 

[ATTACH]1812[/ATTACH]

 

OK Tony, now I believe you. Interesting to see which letters are used most frequently. I guess addresses are typed most frequently on my keyboard, so the letters D,U,M & P will soon disappear;)

 

J:) hn

 

i think its is intresting, not for charge the battery, more for to protect the brakeshoes;-)

 

regards

frank

 

Maybe an opening for Shimano to market a front electric brake without regen as an alternative to their roller brake?

 

That said, news is that their new roller brake just arriving is much more effective than the old rather slow acting and weak one.

.

Maybe an opening for Shimano to market a front electric brake without regen as an alternative to their roller brake?

 

That said, news is that their new roller brake just arriving is much more effective than the old rather slow acting and weak one.

.

 

On the same circuit on mixed terain with quite a few traffic lights, the regen gets me another 4k I'd estimate on a 44km trip.

That reminds me, the other day I saw one one of these in Cycle King

 

[ATTACH]1813.vB[/ATTACH]

Could it be a Ferrari for Frank? It also has

• SHIMANO CYBER NEXUS ROLLER BRAKES

  
   
  
• SHIMANO CYBER NEXUS FORK WITH AUTO CONTROL
  
• 8 SPEED SHIMANO NEXUS AUTOMATIC GEARS

That reminds me, the other day I saw one one of these in Cycle King

 

[ATTACH]1813[/ATTACH]

Could it be a Ferrari for Frank? It also has

• SHIMANO CYBER NEXUS ROLLER BRAKES

  
   
  
• SHIMANO CYBER NEXUS FORK WITH AUTO CONTROL
  
• 8 SPEED SHIMANO NEXUS AUTOMATIC GEARS

J:) hn

That reminds me, the other day I saw one one of these in Cycle King

 

Could it be a Ferrari for Frank? It also has

• SHIMANO CYBER NEXUS ROLLER BRAKES

  
  

• SHIMANO CYBER NEXUS FORK WITH AUTO CONTROL
  
• 8 SPEED SHIMANO NEXUS AUTOMATIC GEARS

J:) hn

 

I wonder what that silver bit is on the downtube? Did you investigate John?

 

It's odd for that discounter to have such a name as Ferrari in it's store.

 

By the way, did you see this reply John?

.

I was going to post earlier but this thread has moved on a fair bit! I'm with Harry on this I don't buy the reasoning for the pricing strategy, the reason for using expensive cells is the regen function, but as we know regen on any bike is dubious no matter how you cut it. If you paid the cash and didn't find the function of any benefit then you have paid through the nose for just having the option of using regen. As I said before I'm sure the quality is first class but I would not pay for it. The cost and positioning seems delibrate but seemingly only to justify the function or functions that only a few will think of benefit.

I wonder what that silver bit is on the downtube? Did you investigate John?

 

It's odd for that discounter to have such a name as Ferrari in it's store.

 

By the way, did you see this reply John?

.

 

 

I only saw it through the window whilst looking for something else, but did have double take when I saw the name Ferrari in what is not an up market bike shop.

 

 

For a second I thought it was a dinky battery, but I think it something to do with the automatic gears? Do you think it might be CVT?

 

They are having a clearance sale Cycle King

 

I am checking out your link Tony.

 

J:) hn

Ah, I see Flecc has already touched on the point Imwas trying to make

I was going to post earlier but this thread has moved on a fair bit! I'm with Harry on this I don't buy the reasoning for the pricing strategy, the reason for using expensive cells is the regen function, but as we know regen on any bike is dubious no matter how you cut it. If you paid the cash and didn't find the function of any benefit then you have paid through the nose for just having the option of using regen. As I said before I'm sure the quality is first class but I would not pay for it. The cost and positioning seems delibrate but seemingly only to justify the function or functions that only a few will think of benefit.

 

Hi

 

Good reasoning I believe and an explanation for the positioning of the BionX product in the market. Each time I have spoken with an agent about the BionX kit the "advantages" of regeneration are quickly pointed out. It's clearly part of the marketing strategy.

 

I've also noticed that if I enquire about a particular e bike the agent, if he sells the BionX kit will also describe the kit. Once I mention that price is a barrier then I find the agent will quickly drop the subject. I have the feeling that they, like me, are not too convinced by the price structure.

 

Getting back to ready built with BionX does anyone know as to whether the Kalkhoff B27 and Trek T500 or T80 use the BionX battery?

 

Does the technology allow for an alternative battery?

 

I note that regeneration can be turned on/off and presumably can be disabled? If so, then would this allow for the fitting of an alternative, and hopefully cheaper battery?

 

So. it appears that the Trek and Kalkhoff with BionX power may be back in the frame however like you I 'm really not interested in regeneration.

Regards

vectra. (learning all the time from you guys).

 

For a second I thought it was a dinky battery, but I think it something to do with the automatic gears? Do you think it might be CVT?

 

J:) hn

 

That's it John, of course, it's the automatic gearchange version. Those I've seen previously have had that gear control box on a stem of the rear frame.

 

The front hubdyno is an essential part of that setup of course.

.