I've done some further digging and it appears Urban Mover now have no connection with Hero Eco, only the Ultra Motor brand A2B remains with them. I've no idea when there was separation but clearly the A2B and F4W contacts are not worth pursuing now.

 

I did have a new Urban Mover service and parts telephone number issued after the original takeover of Ultra Motor by Hero Eco, but having just tried it I've found it's now disconnected.

 

Unfortunately it seems you now only have the Urban Mover contact point details you've given.

.

 

You might be right there but I'm not sure (I apologise if I've misunderstood). Urban Mover Ltd dissolved in 2008. http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//wcframe?name=accessCompanyInfo

 

The OP might have paid Urbanmover.com Ltd which is currently in liquidation. The OP would need to contact the receiver/liquidator to register as a creditor - and maximise his claims i.e. make an optimistic claim about what he is owed for the first broken battery (based on 6 years' use - the other party can resist this if it chooses), as well as claim for 100% of the second payment.

 

But he might have paid Urban Mover Eco Ltd which isn't in liquidation.

 

It's important that he finds out which entity he was told he paid (or which he did pay), that seems the right starting point. Perhaps the paypal email address he paid would be the best start.

Edited March 25, 201511 yr by jonathan75

I think you can raise an issue with paypal any time within 60 days from payment date.

Suppliers using paypal agree with paypal to ship the goods within 14 days, unless you have agreed a different delivery date.

 

Yes trex it’s sixty days. I put ninety initially then checked and changed it. But the original came back as things do sometimes with this site’s hosting.

Without disagreeing with anything you've said, I would just add the payer is not in any way confined to PayPal's resolution system for remidies.

 

Quite agree. But it’s the best place to start. Paypal will refund you if the seller has no proof that he delivered it. Assuming the money was sent as payment for goods and wan’t sent as a gift. I would have made a claim before this though.

You might be right there but I'm not sure (I apologise if I've misunderstood). Urban Mover Ltd dissolved in 2008. http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//wcframe?name=accessCompanyInfo

 

But it seems replaced by Urban Mover.com in 2009, this 2009 webpage refers. Clearly both are effectively the same company since the bike range is the same UM10, UM20 and UM30 as before, only using the brand name Elite instead of Urban Mover.

 

Snce it was Keith Chamberlain he paid, it was to the later name company, since as you can see, he is the project director of that later company. Also the contact page on that site gives the quoted telephone number, which is also the parts phone number given by Halfords for their current Urban Mover sales.

.

 

It seems all roads lead to the same unsatisfactory end.

.

Edited March 25, 201511 yr by flecc

But it seems replaced by Urban Mover.com in 2009, this 2009 webpage refers. Clearly both are effectively the same company since the bike range is the same UM10, UM20 and UM30 as before, only using the brand name Elite instead of Urban Mover.

 

Snce it was Keith Chamberlain he paid, it was to the later name company, since as you can see, he is the project director of that later company. Also the contact page on that site gives the quoted telephone number, which is also the parts phone number given by Halfords for their current Urban Mover sales.

.

 

It seems all roads lead to the same unsatisfactory end.

.

 

I would venture that the question isn't whether Urban Mover Ltd is the same company as Urbanmover.com Ltd, because they're not. Each company is a discrete entity. In this case the practical question is whether he paid Urbanmover.com Ltd or Urban Mover Eco Ltd, because both are in different financial situations. Urbanmover.com ltd has £130k unsecured debt in excess of its assets. Urban Mover Eco Ltd only has £2k of such debt. Useful links here:

 

http://www.endole.co.uk/company/07997258/urban-mover-eco-ltd

 

http://www.endole.co.uk/company/04963014/urban-movercom-limited

 

Going onto the Companies House Webcheck page for Urbanmover.com, and clicking the 'insolvency history' link, it says that it went into liquidation on 20/03/13, after being in administration for a year. The OP paid for the bike shortly after after the liquidation date (I believe) and the battery a year after that (again estimate). I would be surprised if Urbanmover.com was allowed to trade without alerting its buyers that it was in liquidation - surely the liquidator/administrator would be in charge of all sales. So I think that the OP paid Urban Mover Eco Ltd, which only has £2k of excess debt currently.

 

What worries me is that Mr Keith Chamberlain, director of Urban Mover Eco Ltd (and its predecessors) seems to be taking money and not delivering goods. I suspect he's used customer money for purposes other than running Urban Mover Eco Ltd in a proper way (this isn't legal terminology). I believe that could make him personally liable for the money paid. I feel sorry for him because he's probably having his house sold from under him, but he seems to be taking it out on this particular customer by taking his money and ignoring him.

Edited March 25, 201511 yr by jonathan75

I agree about the companies status Jonathan, my use of "effectively" being only a reference to what they were marketing rather than any financial implications.

 

Seeing that urbanmover.com has also gone into administration gives me the same fears as you, but since Urban Mover Eco Ltd have supplied Halfords with new e-bikes, presumably there is some hope of a replacement battery becoming available.

 

I'm reminded of another case where a supplier short of cash wasn't paying the Chinese end for the last large consignment and couldn't get spares and batteries from them as a result.

.

Hi all. Encouraging to see that this case is bringing so much attention and useful feedbacks. Thanks a lot for your precious advises and your time. To answer some of your questions, I just checked my paypal account

and I effectively paid on the 23rd Jan 2015to Urban Mover (http://www.urbanmover.com) £498.6. This is what is mentioned in my Paypal account. Now I am not sure who and which legal entity is effectively behind this URL but I would assume (naively may be) that PayPal is checking this before accepting and transferring payments from customers. To precise also something here, I am calling the unique number almost on a daily basis, and one day (about one month ago) someone picked up the phone and asked me to re send the mails, in which I was asking for an update on the delivery. Obviously no answer since then. I think best approach is to claim (if not too late) the payment from PayPal. I will keep you posted. In order to avoid this type of adventure o others, I will also advertise Urban Mover's aftersales more extensively. Would you know another platform than this foum , happy to use it. Kind Regards

It seems then that the payment went to the company that went into administration almost exactly two years ago, so a PayPal claim is the best course now.

.

You should do it immediately. You may already be too late.

There seems to be varying directions that the Chinese manufactured bikes are heading. There are the cheapies,these are old technology and old pricing structure-in China the majority of the suppliers are still in this category,they find it easy to make the same bikes without any innovation or parts upgrade-I walk the Shanghai show and 70 per cent of the booths have these bikes,most are sold cheap into Holland and Belgium,they are often step thru's.

There are a few booths where the manufacturers are trying to innovate,the bikes tend to use higher quality parts with an obvious price hike-understand not expensive but priced away from the cheapies,these bikes tend to be sold into Germany and Eastern Europe,usually rebadged to disguise their origins.

Despite so much knowledge about quality and hill climbing ability,weight,style being communicated by such as this forum, the majority of UK customers are still price driven and the cheapies are the majority of sales...it's a shame because so often the cheapie bike doesn't do what a customer thinks it should and the e-bike is left to rust in the shed or its so unreliable that all e-bikes get 'tarred with the same brush'

We see so many bikes bought into our London Shop,they are all the classic cheapies-' it won't go,the supplier has disappeared,I am fed up with it,can you fix it,what do I do with it' it's tempting to tell them the best place for their pile of rust,mustn't be rude,

The Chinese have a not too complimentary name for the gullible newbie entrepreneur,they stitch him up with a cheap pile of the cheapest bits and stuff 60 in a 20 foot container,no spares,no thought of after sales service,no worries the guy won't be back. Unfortunately the British consumer is ultimately the fall guy 6 months later. Anyone who has been on this forum for some time knows the names of all these cheapies,it doesn't do the reputation of the e-bike market much good.

Please understand that this is a general comment not directly related to the Urban Mover product of which I have no knowledge,it probably should have had its own thread but it seemed appropriate to the poor customer service experienced by the OP.

KudosDave

Edited March 25, 201511 yr by Kudoscycles

There seems to be varying directions that the Chinese manufactured bikes are heading. There are the cheapies,these are old technology and old pricing structure-in China the majority of the suppliers are still in this category,they find it easy to make the same bikes without any innovation or parts upgrade-I walk the Shanghai show and 70 per cent of the booths have these bikes,most are sold cheap into Holland and Belgium,they are often step thru's.

There are a few booths where the manufacturers are trying to innovate,the bikes tend to use higher quality parts with an obvious price hike-understand not expensive but priced away from the cheapies,these bikes tend to be sold into Germany and Eastern Europe,usually rebadged to disguise their origins.

Despite so much knowledge about quality and hill climbing ability,weight,style being communicated by such as this forum, the majority of UK customers are still price driven and the cheapies are the majority of sales...it's a shame because so often the cheapie bike doesn't do what a customer thinks it should and the e-bike is left to rust in the shed or its so unreliable that all e-bikes get 'tarred with the same brush'

We see so many bikes bought into our London Shop,they are all the classic cheapies-' it won't go,the supplier has disappeared,I am fed up with it,can you fix it,what do I do with it' it's tempting to tell them the best place for their pile of rust,mustn't be rude,

The Chinese have a not too complimentary name for the gullible newbie entrepreneur,they stitch him up with a cheap pile of the cheapest bits and stuff 60 in a 20 foot container,no spares,no thought of after sales service,no worries the guy won't be back. Unfortunately the British consumer is ultimately the fall guy 6 months later. Anyone who has been on this forum for some time knows the names of all these cheapies,it doesn't do the reputation of the e-bike market much good.

Please understand that this is a general comment not directly related to the Urban Mover product of which I have no knowledge,it probably should have had its own thread but it seemed appropriate to the poor customer service experienced by the OP.

KudosDave

 

We are our own worst enemies - even on this forum.

 

If I make a comment in support of a quality component or brand, I tend to be called a snob and get a lecture about poor people who have to buy cheap.

 

Or be told I'm a mug and could get better on ebay from China, or from alibaba - currently under investigation for the supply of counterfeit goods.

 

Forty thieves? More like 40,000.

 

I've seen some of the shameful contraptions of which Dave speaks being wheeled into my local bike shop.

 

Hard to sympathise with the customer who has scoured the net and bought purely on price, and then wants the local lads to sort it for buttons.

 

But it is such a shame, because for just a few hundred more they could have got something half decent.

 

Mamils have been much criticised, but at least they are prepared to spend a few quid on a quality bike and accessories.

 

Too many people start with the notion a bike is something you should get for a tenner from a car boot sale.

Rob....you said it so well... I suppose I am a bit frustrated that a couple of my new bikes were designed as a result of all the criteria that was requested by forum members.

These bikes sell well to the population of London but are pretty much ignored by the one forum that asked for the features of those bikes.

Forum members should understand that the cheap bikes you often see cheap on the Internet are ex China for less than 300 US dollars,most chinese manufacturers allow 50 US dollars to assemble and make a profit so the rest of the bike has to be sourced for 250 U.S. dollars,about £170.00-it's very hard to get quality parts at that price level.

We shouldn't be surprised that we get what we pay for.

KudosDave

How are you so sure that Moisson bought on price?

He paid £500 for a 26V 9AH battery that has to arrive.

If he bought his bike from one of the vendors advertising on this forum, none of this would have happened.

Here is his bike:

http://urbanmover.com/products/powerAssistedBikes/UM44.php

How are you so sure that Moisson bought on price?

He paid £500 for a 26V 9AH battery that has to arrive.

If he bought his bike from one of the vendors advertising on this forum, none of this would have happened.

Here is his bike:

http://urbanmover.com/products/powerAssistedBikes/UM44.php

 

I thought it fairly obvious Dave and I were making general comments and not in any way having a go at the OP.

I don't think that there's anything wrong with buying a cheap Chinese bike, but you must make sure that it has a standard battery and other parts. As soon as there's some special parts, they will cost a fortune to replace. If I had an Urban Mover UM36 with a shagged battery, I'd replace the battery with a standard bottle battery, which would be a lot better as well as a lot cheaper. You only need two wires to connect it. You could get two of them with chargers for the same price as the UM replacement one.

It seems then that the payment went to the company that went into administration almost exactly two years ago, so a PayPal claim is the best course now.

.

 

Paypal claim definitely best for the £500, as you say.

 

The thing is that Moisson says he bought the bike a year before January 2015, so January 2014, then. The company actually went into administration in March 2012 and came out of administration in March 2013 and entered liquidation, thus ceasing to trade. There is no way Urbanmover.com Ltd could have sold Moisson the bike in January 2014 (and even if it were January 2013, he would not have dealt with Keith Chamberlain I believe, but instead the administrator, who I believe would have been obliged to inform Moisson that the company was in administration and might not be able to fulfil its commitments). It had to be Urban Mover Eco Ltd he dealt with (there is no other entity which Keith is director of).

 

The reason this is important is because Urban Mover Eco Ltd is still liable to Moisson for the bike having failed. Moisson should not have to pay for a new battery so long as he has not abused it. He should be provided with a repair, replacement, or part-refund (at the discretion of the retailer) - provided he paid good money for the bike. That (reasonable durability) is what Urban Mover Eco Ltd have agreed, it's the basis of his contract with it, and as an agreement is binding on the company.

 

I would point out that Keith Chamberlain is the company director for a school with £23m total assets, see here http://www.endole.co.uk/profile/2246250/keith-chamberlain so if Moisson doesn't hear from Keith he could always threaten to email the Chair of Governors at the school to ask for Keith's contact details...

@[uSER=4366]d8veh[/uSER]: Moisson's bike wasn't even cheap.

@[mention=7559]jonathan75[/mention]: paypal is responsible for handing over the funds to an account controlled by KC. If KC does not return the funds, I'd suggest Moisson to go after Paypal.

 

@[mention=10706]Moisson[/mention]:

I am no expert but may be you should file against the guy who took your money here:

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

Hi all. Encouraging to see that this case is bringing so much attention and useful feedbacks. Thanks a lot for your precious advises and your time. To answer some of your questions, I just checked my paypal account[ATTACH=full]10834[/ATTACH]

and I effectively paid on the 23rd Jan 2015to Urban Mover (http://www.urbanmover.com) £498.6. This is what is mentioned in my Paypal account. Now I am not sure who and which legal entity is effectively behind this URL but I would assume (naively may be) that PayPal is checking this before accepting and transferring payments from customers. To precise also something here, I am calling the unique number almost on a daily basis, and one day (about one month ago) someone picked up the phone and asked me to re send the mails, in which I was asking for an update on the delivery. Obviously no answer since then. I think best approach is to claim (if not too late) the payment from PayPal. I will keep you posted. In order to avoid this type of adventure o others, I will also advertise Urban Mover's aftersales more extensively. Would you know another platform than this foum , happy to use it. Kind Regards

 

Hi Moisson,

 

According to PayPal Switzerland you have 180 days to launch a buyer protection dispute through PayPal. It says so here at section 3.6.

 

I am certain that you bought your bike from Urban Mover Eco Ltd as Urbanmover.com ceased trading on 23 March 2013.

 

So long as you didn't pay a small price, Urban Mover Eco Ltd is obliged to ensure your original bike bought a year before your January battery purchase, is reasonably durable, for a reasonably period i.e. that it works (providing you did not abuse it). You should not have had to pay for the battery in January 2015, and you should tell them you are cancelling your order, and they should not send it. Instead you should ask them politely/kindly to please help you get your bike on the road again. If they refuse, then, inform them that they have agreed that the bike will be reasonably durable, per the Sale of Goods Act 1979 s 14, and that you may pursue them through the Swiss small claims courts, as is your right.

@[uSER=4366]d8veh[/uSER]: Moisson's bike wasn't even cheap.

@[mention=7559]jonathan75[/mention]: paypal is responsible for handing over the funds to an account controlled by KC. If KC does not return the funds, I'd suggest Moisson to go after Paypal.

 

@[mention=10706]Moisson[/mention]:

I am no expert but may be you should file against the guy who took your money here:

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

 

No, moneyclaim isn't the correct stage now because PayPal have a 180 day buyer protection guarantee, even in Switzerland. I think it's an interesting idea about doing an online moneyclaim, but I think that should relate to the failed bike if KC refuses to fix it for free.

The company address of Urban Mover Eco Ltd is here:

 

URBAN MOVER ECO LTD

5 PULLMAN COURT

GREAT WESTERN ROAD

GLOUCESTER

GLOUCESTERSHIRE

GL1 3ND

Company No. 07997258

 

It is probably best to write to them by letter from now on concerning the broken bike (although you can email and ring them to cancel the battery purchase - the cancellation is effective as soon as they would ordinarily receive it during ordinary office hours, whether or not they acknowledge it). You can go after the £500 through PayPal buyer protection.

 

For the bike, if you write them at the above address (by recorded post), and they fail to respond, send them another letter saying if they don't fulfil their contract you will take them to court.

I don't think that there's anything wrong with buying a cheap Chinese bike, but you must make sure that it has a standard battery and other parts. As soon as there's some special parts, they will cost a fortune to replace. If I had an Urban Mover UM36 with a shagged battery, I'd replace the battery with a standard bottle battery, which would be a lot better as well as a lot cheaper. You only need two wires to connect it. You could get two of them with chargers for the same price as the UM replacement one.

 

Dave,I am very respectful of your posting but you are a person who is very knowledgeable about these batteries and have the ability to replace with a close alternative but so many have to have the identical product even a strange connector would throw them.

However as you say try buying a bike with as popular items as possible,I must say the bottle style battery is not the prettiest in the world but it is the most popular,almost the only style which has become standard.

KudosDave

Dave,I am very respectful of your posting but you are a person who is very knowledgeable about these batteries and have the ability to replace with a close alternative but so many have to have the identical product even a strange connector would throw them.

However as you say try buying a bike with as popular items as possible,I must say the bottle style battery is not the prettiest in the world but it is the most popular,almost the only style which has become standard.

KudosDave

You're right. People get put off because they don't know how, but all the information is here on this forum. I used to teach electronics to 11 year old kids of mixed ability. They could all solder and wire things - even the dunderheads. You only need to show them how.

 

It's not exactly difficult to put in two screws and join two wires to change from a behind the seatpost battery to a bottle type. I would have trusted that to any of the 11 year olds that I used to teach. Most things are not difficult if you know how to do it.

The priority is for Moisson to get his money back.

Then there is plenty of room inside the old casing to replace the cellpack.

It will look neater and does not require messing about with the electrocnics.

Cost for a 26V 10AH cell pack: about £140.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bike-Battery-24-V-26-v-10-Ah-Prophete-from-LionTec-without-Charger-/251866467694

 

 

http://urbanmover.com/images/products/bikes/UM44L-3.jpg

Isn't the UM36 36v?

No, it is a Panasonic 26V 9Ah Lithium Battery on the UM36.

.