29er+ conversion kit. Range required 45 miles

[BrianP]

I have a 29er frameset from Singular Cycles. 29+ wheel size is 29 x 3" wide tyres.

At my age (65) I need assistance to ride the 22 miles to the coast and 22 miles back. No big hills, fairly level going with some short steep bits. The Rooster builds up as a very good bikepacking bike, and includes ability to carry bottles or gear on the forks. I have the rims 29 x 3" 32 hole all ready to build up.

So, I am thinking of a front wheel motor and two bottle shape batteries carried, one on each fork. The fork bottle carriers are known as "Anything Cages" because they can be adjusted to carry anything.

About half the journey is off road half on the road. Do not need high speed or anything, just steady cycling speed to get there and back. I am still reasonably ok with 15 mile rides but not 45. Thinking riding in Eco mode both ways should be possible.

So, what kind of level of battery capacity do I need? What do forumites reckon the best current system would be to achieve my goal.

Thanks, Brian

 

[anotherkiwi]

You will need some kind of shock absorber in your cages. I worry about soldered connections breaking with the kind of vibrations you have on forks.

I would recommend a rear wheel hub motor and a 15A downtube battery which will do the there and back again distance no sweat.

 

[Nealh]

My 13ah Samsung celled battery gets me 44 miles ish with a very little bit to spare so anything over should give some reserve a couple of 9/10ah should spread the weight nicely. I can see why you are thinking front hub and with all the weight on the front a front hub would be perfect to prevent the front wheel from scrabbling on wet or loose surfaces and you get to keep your gearing unchanged which obviously is ideal for you. Its a shame you didn't post late last week as we would have directed you to Oxydrive who were doing Black Friday/cyber Monday discounts which ended yesterday evening. Woosh do a front bike kit but it is 350w, Cyclezee is also do some very nice kits. For your requirements I would contact Pandabikes they do some good kits esp the Xingda 2 speed kit.

 

[Nealh]

Just out of interest who/what is the make of your long top under slung bag and the top triangular bag ?

 

[BrianP]

The completed bike with bags is an example of my frame built up. I am just at the frameset stage. The bags are by Miss Grape. https://www.facebook.com/missgrapebag/
A much cheaper and very good supplier of bike bags is Alpkit. https://www.alpkit.com/bikepacking
Thanks so far.
My current electric bike is a Kona Ute and I wondered about a folding solar panel, size of a large bath towel, draped over the large rear bags to help re-charge the battery as I rode to, stayed at the beach say for 4 hours, then rode home. Total 8 hours charging time.

250W/13Ah pedelec electric assist, 3 modes.

Do you think 13ah can get me there and back. Solar panel might make certain it would?

Brian

 

[anotherkiwi]

On the road if I pedal a wee bit harder and don't need to break any speed records to catch trains or whatever I get that range from 10.4 A battery using assistance up to maximum 3 out of 5. The solar panel will make you look green

 

[Nealh]

With 13ah battery I did 37.5 miles tonight, an estimate guess is I may have got another 5 miles more. Outward bound I was going along 18 - 19.5 mph on level 1 assist 5 and about 14-15 on level 1 assist 4 on the return, if I lessened the assist mode more then 50 or more is doable. My bike has 3 speed levels with each level having 6 assist speeds, top level 3 on assist 6 tops out at 24.5 mph with a tail wind 27.
Thanks for the bag maker will look them up a like the long under bar one especially.

 

[BrianP]

I had discounted my Kona and it's 13 ah battery, but it looks like I need to do some testing around my home on acircular route to see just what I can achieve. That's really hepful.
With 13ah battery at 24v I have 312 wh I think. If that is close to achieving my target, then something like 500 wh ( not sure of units) should be a good figure to aim for building into the Rooster frameset, especially as it would be 50% offroad. My Kona has a front wheel motor and I quite like the 2 wheel drive effect.
What would be the best front motor, 32 hole rim, two bottle battery solution producing 500 wh.
Thanks so far.
Brian

 

[D8ve]

I suspect that everyone else's 13 amps are with 36 volts giving around 50% greater wh.

 

[Nealh]

Yes 36v here same as Kiwi so I have 468wh.
Hardly makes an sense going 24v when 36v give 50% more power.
I believe most if not all fronts are 36h once you get to 26" and above though you can get Q100 in a 32h rear hub. Any combo of 36v 10a battery will give you 620wh, there are some 8 & 9ah batteries sold but these tend to be frog types and 10ah is the most common smaller bottle size.

 

[mfj197]

Apidura are also a very good make of bikepacking bags - www.apidura.com .

I'd be a bit concerned with all the weight planned for the front wheel. Two batteries mounted on the forks will add 4-5kg, and with a front wheel motor as well you could be adding 8-10kg in total. That will dramatically affect handling, which will only get worse if the batteries have any freedom to slop about.

I'd go for either a rear wheel motor or probably a crank drive. As anotherkiwi suggests, a big downtube battery would be the best from a handling perspective but if you're worried about it being noticeable you could put batteries in the luggage. I had my 11.6Ah battery in my saddlepack (as you can see on my bike pic) but now it's in a small pannier.

Also solar will hardly make any difference at all as the power just isn't there.

Michael

 

[Nealh]

Brian's proposed use of a fat bike (Rooster) with 3" tyres will help to soak up some vibration, what he will need to do is load the front up evenly with 8 - 9kg to see how the handling feels as with any project a bit of trial and error/testing is required. Unpowered the loaded front will feel heavy and awkward but with hub power it should feel better. He has a Kona front hub which he could test if possible with two fork panniers and 6kg of weight evenly distributed to compare to the unpowered fat bike test. With the carriers being fixed rigid to the forks any bottle battery inside will not have the same vibration as a direct mount battery to any other part of the frame, a foam layer around and under the battery will aid packing and also help to soak up vibrations and slop to give a snug fitting.
Brian has an idea in his head and if he doesn't try it out/test the idea he will always have reservations, if it doesn't feel right then a plan B will have to be sought.

 

[Ruadh495]

I've got my battery rack mounted at the front and it's working for me (though I'm pretty new, 300 miles so far). It feels weird to push, with all the weight on the front wheel, but fine to ride even on wet leaves, mud etc (which I get a lot of). My bike is very upright, Dutch style and did tend to be a bit light on the front before the conversion. Over the forks is a traditional place to carry heavy loads, even passengers, on this type of bike.

It's just one 13Ahr battery though and I don't have anywhere near the range required here; I get about 30 miles in assist 3. A second battery would do it.

 

[Nealh]

Pushing if need be shouldn't be an issue if you use the throttle/walk speed mode, that's assuming some battery power is still left.

 

[Ruadh495]

It's not hard to push, just feels odd because so much of the weight is at the front. I've tried the walk assist. You have to hold the "down" button for 2 seconds, then the bike tries to go 4 mph until you lift off the button, then you have to press for another 2 seconds to get power on again (it's a Kunteng controller). Pretty useless. I've never needed walk assist but if I did the throttle would be much more use. Of course it's illegal to use the throttle dismounted...

 

[BrianP]

I twigged last night after my post that other riders were probably using 36v batteries, compared to my 24v on the Kona Ute cargo bike. I guess one simple solution would be to buy an extra battery. My 312 wh should be good for the 22 miles there, then swap to second battery for home trip. Loads of carrying capacity in the huge saddle bags. Not sure if Kona would still supply, or if I could open source an extra one.

Back to the Rooster. I would like to try front motor because I like the two wheel drive on my Ute. Also I have an Alfine 8 for the rear already.

The front forks already have 3 sets of bottle mounts on each leg to fit proper Anything Cages. So the forks are designed to carry a load. Not a motor as well though.... Here is a Rooster in typical backpacking mode with Cages fitted.

Close up

Carrying a lot of the load well forward seems to be "normal" with these 29ers. The designers of the Awol did the Transcontinental race this way. All the load on the front. In a video of their trip they even jump a sleeping policeman and no wobble at all.

The other thing I was thinking, was that by keeping everything neatly at the front, it would be quick to convert the bike back to winter non-electric local short range mode. Or if it did not work out for some reason, the bike would sell more readily in standard bikepacking mode.

From everyone's postings am I correct in thinking one bottle battery 36v x 10 Amp would get me there and a second get me back home. A total of 720 WH. Even with some load and 50% off road.

Since I have the 29x3" 32 hole rim already will I be able to source a motor? You may already gathered I am not very technical where electricity is concerned. Anyone in Hampshire or Dorset who would be best to go to for help and acctually setting up the system.

If anyone feels - just go and buy this bike to meet your needs - please shout out! Perhaps some thing like this Scott which employs the new 500 wh Bosch.

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Scott-E-Aspect-720-CX-2016?gclid=Cj0KEQiAyvqyBRChq_iG38PgvLgBEiQAJbasdz6e1_ax8vFmL5CrXRH79ZtqkWOIV05iZN-pX4gykFwaAorX8P8HAQ

The 29er version is almost exactly the stack and reach as my medium Fargo which fits me better than any other bike I have ridden. Old back and neck damage. To find an e-bike with 500 wh and a perfect fit is quite a surprise. Buyying direct from Germany would save £500 with low euro just now. No support though.
https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dealer/Scott-E-Aspect-920-CX-2016?filter=5
Brian

 

[anotherkiwi]

From everyone's postings am I correct in thinking one bottle battery 36v x 10 Amp would get me there and a second get me back home. A total of 720 WH. Even with some load and 50% off road.

Yep that would do the trick from what i understand of your riding abilities.

If you have the cash just pull the trigger on the Scott they are lovely, saw one in the street the other day.

I am more worried about 32 spokes vs hub motor plus the weight... Bolted on weight isn't the same as in the bag kind of floating during hard knocks kind of weight. I stopped using one "bike path" because every second time I had to retighten all the bolts on the bike...