Cheap Brompton Conversion Kit?

[jerrysimon]

It looks like the days of the self build are coming to a close.
It is a shame.

Did I miss something ?

Jerry

 

[shemozzle999]

I appears our current builds are illegal. You will have to get type approval for any self build.

 

[jerrysimon]

I guess I have not been following the relevant thread

I have boxes of parts and rims and intend to continue building them for myself and family.

Jerry

 

[shemozzle999]

You could always take up model flying again before they close all the flying sites down

It would have to be a big model to take all those spare motors - perhaps a Lancaster - you could find a use for 4 in one model

 

[Jeremy]

I appears our current builds are illegal. You will have to get type approval for any self build.

Nothing has ever changed in this regard, AFAIK. Certainly the law covering UK certified EPACs hasn't changed for many years now. I don't recall the law covering EU Type Approved pedelecs having changed either.

It's perfectly legal to build a DIY ebike, as long as you can find a way to demonstrate compliance with the law. This has always been the case, for as long as I can remember. DIY ebikes have never been exempted from the regulations.

I believe that many people building DIY ebikes have been ignoring the approval side of these laws for years, as have many of the dodgy importers of ready built ebikes sold on ebay and the like. Clearly many on here, and elsewhere, perhaps, may also have been somewhat confused as to what is actually required to be 100% legal, judging by some of the heated debates on here in the past.

A worthwhile exercise would be to build a DIY ebike that is fully compliant with SI 1168 (you couldn't use EN15194, unfortunately) and take it to the Vehicle Inspectorate with a request that they verify that it complies with the regulations. They could do one of several things:

1) They could demand that you produce a test certificate from a BSI approved test house showing that the motor power output was within limits when tested to BS1727:1971 as required by law

2) They could accept the power printed on a home made sticker as being correct.

3) They could refer things back to the DfT for a ruling............

The other aspects of the SI, maximum assist speed and weight, plus the C&U requirements for a data plate and a user-operable momentary power switch that defaults to off, they could easily check at any Test Station.

 

[jerrysimon]

Thanks for the post Jeremy, though most of that went over my head

I think I will just continue to build my ebikes plug in the battery and ride them and then wait and see what happens.

None of my ebikes assist to more that 15-16mph so I am confident I will be able to continue to ride them without any bother

My local flying field got padlocked up which in part is why I stopped RC flight, that and smashing up my helis over and over lol

Though on the plus note I learnt a lot about batteries and charging, which I then carried over into my new ebike hobby which has actually proved to be a lot cheaper lol

Regards

Jerry

 

[Jeremy]

Thanks for the post Jeremy, though most of that went over my head

I think I will just continue to build my ebikes plug in the battery and ride them and then wait and see what happens.

None of my ebikes assist to more that 15-16mph so I am confident I will be able to continue to ride them without any bother

My local flying field got padlocked up which in part is why I stopped RC flight, that and smashing up my helis over and over lol

Though on the plus note I learnt a lot about batteries and charging, which I then carried over into my new ebike hobby which has actually proved to be a lot cheaper lol

Regards

Jerry

That's exactly the approach I've been taking for years. I make sure that the bikes I build don't look obviously electrically assisted and that I ride safely and use electric power fairly discreetly, especially when riding around the city or on the dual use cycle paths. I reserve any riding at speeds that aren't wholly in compliance with the regulations for deserted country lanes!

I also fitted a Speed Drive to the BB of my latest folder (highly recommended, BTW), so that I can pedal at a reasonable cadence right up to about 30mph, so it doesn't look as if I'm sitting back on a high speed electric bike and letting the motor do the work. I love having that 1.65:1 overdrive, coupled with 20" wheels, a 50T front and 14T rear it works very well indeed.

 

[shemozzle999]

They now have gyros fitted you can fly them hands free, but the the purists believe thats cheating - hang on where have I heard that before.........

 

[jerrysimon]

Jeremy I am still working on my Swift Xootr. Its still in stock form and I was riding it unassisted in the summer. I like it a lot.

Am going to try it with a small Tongxin Goldant to start off with.

As I said I followed your build with interest.

Regards

Jerry

 

[morphix]

Nothing has ever changed in this regard, AFAIK. Certainly the law covering UK certified EPACs hasn't changed for many years now. I don't recall the law covering EU Type Approved pedelecs having changed either.

It's perfectly legal to build a DIY ebike, as long as you can find a way to demonstrate compliance with the law. This has always been the case, for as long as I can remember. DIY ebikes have never been exempted from the regulations.

I believe that many people building DIY ebikes have been ignoring the approval side of these laws for years, as have many of the dodgy importers of ready built ebikes sold on ebay and the like. Clearly many on here, and elsewhere, perhaps, may also have been somewhat confused as to what is actually required to be 100% legal, judging by some of the heated debates on here in the past.

A worthwhile exercise would be to build a DIY ebike that is fully compliant with SI 1168 (you couldn't use EN15194, unfortunately) and take it to the Vehicle Inspectorate with a request that they verify that it complies with the regulations. They could do one of several things:

1) They could demand that you produce a test certificate from a BSI approved test house showing that the motor power output was within limits when tested to BS1727:1971 as required by law

2) They could accept the power printed on a home made sticker as being correct.

3) They could refer things back to the DfT for a ruling............

The other aspects of the SI, maximum assist speed and weight, plus the C&U requirements for a data plate and a user-operable momentary power switch that defaults to off, they could easily check at any Test Station.

it seems quite an expensive and far from ideal way to ensure safety legal bikes. maybe the emphasis should be on manufacturers to certify their motors/ kit to EU law? You can end up with people taking same bikes/ kits for approval else over and over.

Jeremy you've quickly gaining a reputation for being our resident legal expert!

 

[morphix]

That's exactly the approach I've been taking for years. I make sure that the bikes I build don't look obviously electrically assisted and that I ride safely and use electric power fairly discreetly, especially when riding around the city or on the dual use cycle paths. I reserve any riding at speeds that aren't wholly in compliance with the regulations for deserted country lanes!

same here. why draw attention to yourself eh? especially with the precarious legal position. discretion is the word. Have to be model cyclists! No riding on pavements by coppers!

I also fitted a Speed Drive to the BB of my latest folder (highly recommended, BTW), so that I can pedal at a reasonable cadence right up to about 30mph, so it doesn't look as if I'm sitting back on a high speed electric bike and letting the motor do the work. I love having that 1.65:1 overdrive, coupled with 20" wheels, a 50T front and 14T rear it works very well indeed.

that's very interesting! And here's me searching for 11T freewheels! Sounds like you found a good compromise. Never heard of Speed Drive's before, learn something every day here.

 

[Jeremy]

that's very interesting! And here's me searching for 11T freewheels! Sounds like you found a good compromise. Never heard of Speed Drive's before, learn something every day here.

The Speed Drive is definitely a good solution for a small wheel bike. At the click of your heel you can switch the BB between direct drive or a 1.65:1 overdrive. I haven't bothered with any other gears on my latest folder, just a single speed freewheel. The pedal cadence at 30mph is about 85 with the Speed Drive engaged, which is quite comfortable. I get the same cadence at about 18mph with the Speed Drive in direct drive mode.

The gap between the two ratios is wide, but because of the electric assist that isn't a problem at all. I find that direct drive is fine for cycle paths and low speed city riding or hill climbing with assist, and the high speed drive is great for keeping up with traffic or fast riding around the lanes on the flat.

This solution is also fairly light, as the Speed Drive isn't much heavier than a normal BB and you can ditch the dérailleur, gear change and rear freewheel block. If you have a frame (like mine) with horizontal dropouts, then you don't even need a chain tensioner, making for a clean, light and simple bike. The downside is the relatively high cost of the Speed Drive.

 

[morphix]

The Speed Drive is definitely a good solution for a small wheel bike. At the click of your heel you can switch the BB between direct drive or a 1.65:1 overdrive. I haven't bothered with any other gears on my latest folder, just a single speed freewheel. The pedal cadence at 30mph is about 85 with the Speed Drive engaged, which is quite comfortable. I get the same cadence at about 18mph with the Speed Drive in direct drive mode.

The gap between the two ratios is wide, but because of the electric assist that isn't a problem at all. I find that direct drive is fine for cycle paths and low speed city riding or hill climbing with assist, and the high speed drive is great for keeping up with traffic or fast riding around the lanes on the flat.

This solution is also fairly light, as the Speed Drive isn't much heavier than a normal BB and you can ditch the dérailleur, gear change and rear freewheel block. If you have a frame (like mine) with horizontal dropouts, then you don't even need a chain tensioner, making for a clean, light and simple bike. The downside is the relatively high cost of the Speed Drive.

Relative! Bloody hell, I've just seen the prices of them! It WAS a good solution, or is, if you have a VERY long purse. lol One of those would cost twice the cost of my bike! Looks like I'll be sticking to the poor mans way with a Chinese 11T freewheeler heh.

 

[catsnapper]

I use these as a cheaper(not cheap!) alternative to a SpeedDrive.METROPOLIS components
Easy gear change with a front derailleur shifter on the left side of the bars. It's a nice simple, heavy duty unit with a 1.6:1 ratio.

Alan

 

[morphix]

I use these as a cheaper(not cheap!) alternative to a SpeedDrive.METROPOLIS components
Easy gear change with a front derailleur shifter on the left side of the bars. It's a nice simple, heavy duty unit with a 1.6:1 ratio.

Alan

That's more like it! Shame about the weight though, else I'd probably get one..

Alan the motor is here (it's actually a 350W motor) and I'm about to give it some tests this weekend.. still waiting on the freewheel, I think that could take quite a wee while from China!! I've had notice it was shipped on 17th but the tracking thing isn't working on Chinese post site. heh.

 

[catsnapper]

That's more like it! Shame about the weight though, else I'd probably get one..

Yes, a bit heavy if you want to keep it all as lightweight as possible. I'm using one on an aluminium 26" wheel frame with the front Q100 250~350w.
It lighter and looks neater than the equivalent Bafang, although my present controller settings seem to give a bit more low end 'grunt' with the Bafang.

Alan

 

[Jeremy]

Relative! Bloody hell, I've just seen the prices of them! It WAS a good solution, or is, if you have a VERY long purse. lol One of those would cost twice the cost of my bike! Looks like I'll be sticking to the poor mans way with a Chinese 11T freewheeler heh.

There's a cheaper option! I bought mine for $400 inc shipping etc, from inside Europe, so no tax or duty worries. Still expensive, I know, but more reasonable than the Swiss made version. You can buy them from Accountant on ES, see this thread for details of one being fitted to a Jetstream: Endless-sphere.com • View topic - Considering [EDIT: Testing] a Schlumpf/ATS Speed Drive

The breakdown of costs I received from Accountant for the ATS Speed Drive, as in that thread, was:

"ATS speed drive 1: 1,6 = 250 USD
Original cranckarms, black, 172,5 mm = 50 USD
Export documentation = 40 USD ( damn,we are still not EU member)
handling&shiping =45 USD
4% for Paypal comision = 15,4 USD

TOTAL = 400,4 USD"

 

[shemozzle999]

Update:

First wheel now built. SWXU in 16" rim:

 

[shemozzle999]

Schwalbe Marathon Plus 35-349 tyres no problem they can be easily pressed on by hand on this rim.

 

[jerrysimon]

I would have gone radial. On these small wheels radial seems more than strong enough and looks so coooool

Shown here in comparrison with my original Brompton build.

I use radial now on all my 20" or less front wheel builds.

Ideally with all spoke heads facing out. Unfortunately the offset hole flange counter sinking on this motor was too deep for that, though for my next one I plan to use some washers to get round it.

Regards

Jerry