DFT consultation on increase of 250W limit to 500W

guerney

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My town is full of shared pavements, often as narrow as 1.1m.

That and painted cycle lanes were the "as cheap as possible as poor quality as we can get away with" option for Councils and Developers for 3 or 4 decades.

An environment with that quality of infra is not suitable for articulated half ton mini-cargo vans, which are being promoted (eg the ePack by City Shuttle) as "able to use cycle infrastructure". *
Perhps blinkered powers that be assume all cycle paths are like this one, which is very rare - it was ok until it ended abruptly, forcing me back onto the road. Avoided it ever since, journeys faster and more convenient by road. I'd like to see a 500kg mini-cargo van jump off the curb.

 

Benjahmin

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Oh boy ! They don't have the 'junctions' figured out at all do they? Every time you come to a side road you're in danger of being hit from every angle. Do you have 360 degree vision?
That van nearly had you. I guess, technically, he had the right of way unless you consider the highway code rankings of right of way. Where does that leave everyone?
 

guerney

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Oh boy ! They don't have the 'junctions' figured out at all do they? Every time you come to a side road you're in danger of being hit from every angle. Do you have 360 degree vision?
That van nearly had you. I guess, technically, he had the right of way unless you consider the highway code rankings of right of way. Where does that leave everyone?
Yep, you can tell I'm not at all used to using cycle paths, I really should have stopped and looked both ways like the Green Cross man said on the telly. I believe the van driver noticed my bright flashing 1800LM headlight shining ahead of me on the tarmac, or my other 1800LM headlight shining through the car windows between me and him. I've installed an additional 2400LM headlight since. Had to jump off the pavement when that path suddenly stopped, directly in front of a busy roundabout. It was either that or turning left to look for a crossing point, which would have taken ages and I was in a hurry that day. I've seen cycle path only 4m long. Pointless. Protuding tree roots, deep cracks and potholes. It's safer by road. Amazon and other delivery giants should pay for cycling infrastructure improvements first, from their vast tax-free profits.
 

Az.

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Oh boy ! They don't have the 'junctions' figured out at all do they?
There is nothing wrong with junctions. each junction has very clear road signs. It is Guernay who have no clue how to ride bike on road. I remember first time when I watched it I was like Oh god.... he is going to be hit in a minute.

...and it took around two minutes for near miss.
 
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guerney

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There is nothing wrong with junctions. each junction has very clear road signs. It is Guernay who have no clue how to ride bike on road. I remember first time when I watched it I was like Oh god.... he is going to be hit in a minute.

...and it took around two minutes for near miss.
you can tell I'm not at all used to using cycle paths
Nothing like that happens to me on the road anymore. No vehicle has pulled out in front of me since I installed bright headlights for use day and night, and no close pases either because I'm sidearmed with the Oxford with lights on, plus frickin' laser beams. No close cutting in overtakes either. Legal speed too BTW, my GoPro's wide angle lens makes things look more dramatic than they actually were.
 

Az.

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Nothing like that happens to me on the road anymore. No vehicle has pulled out in front of me since I installed bright headlights for use day and night, and no close pases either because I'm sidearmed with the Oxford with lights on, plus frickin' laser beams. No close cutting in overtakes either.
I understand those lights keep you safe. They are like a huge flashing L telling drivers to watch out for you.

Cycle paths are part of transportation infrastructure and road signs apply to them as well. You just ignore them. Watch this video again. How many times did you made an error while crossing road?
 
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guerney

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I understand those lights keep you safe. They are like a huge flashing L telling drivers to watch out for you.

Cycle paths are part of transportation infrastructure and road signs apply to them as well. You just ignore them. Watch this video again. How many times did you made an error while crossing road?
Yep, you can tell I'm not at all used to using cycle paths
:rolleyes:

I don't cycle on pavements either, amazed at how many do. Even worse than cycle paths.
 

Tony1951

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My town is full of shared pavements, often as narrow as 1.1m.

That and painted cycle lanes were the "as cheap as possible as poor quality as we can get away with" option for Councils and Developers for 3 or 4 decades.

An environment with that quality of infra is not suitable for articulated half ton mini-cargo vans, which are being promoted (eg the ePack by City Shuttle) as "able to use cycle infrastructure". *

I hope that in the end the Govt are not stupid enough to re-categorise 500W rated mopeds as pedal cycles; such power ratings need a separate category with appropriate type approval and safety regs etc, and no right to be on cycle infrastructure.

It needs a huge amount more thought; but a Transport Minister who embraced conspiracy theories about Low Traffic Neighbourhoods is hardly likely to give any thought to anything.

*eg:
View attachment 56882
ANY young adult male cyclist can put out 500 watts for a time. A chap weighing 13 stones (not untypical) riding a bike on pedestrian infrastructure has the potential to hurt people. On the road, he is by far the most vulnerable user. I don't think the proposal to raise the ebike power limit to 500 watts is a real safety issue. The issue is the wholesale abuse by SOME cyclists and scooter riders of pavements and pedestrian only infrastructure. THESE are the people who should be gone after by the authorities. A chap riding a 500 electric watt bike on the road at 20 miles an hour is not a danger to anyone else. In my earlier years I rode my human powered bikes all over the place at 20 miles an hour and more.
 
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guerney

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ANY young cyclist can put out 500 watts for a time.
On a good day after a sugary breakfast, I might be putting a mighty 49W, maybe even 49.25W... my 648W minus 20% minus internal battery resistance does the rest, so I don't have to :cool: I'm hopeful they'll simply Tippex in 500W max manufacturer rated continuous power, 22mph max speed, legalise the throttle, and leave the rest of the legislation as is. Does proposed legislation via statutory instrument get debated? Not always AFAIK.
 

Az.

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I don't cycle on pavements either, amazed at how many do. Even worse than cycle paths.
Well... that is an individual choice, but even if you ride on pavement you will have to cross road sooner or later. My best advice for you is: buy a highway code, read it, learn it, make roads safer place for yourself and all of us.
 
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guerney

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Well... that is an individual choice, but even if you ride on pavement you will have to cross road sooner or later. My best advice for you is: buy a highway code, read it, learn it, make roads safer place for yourself and all of us.
you can tell I'm not at all used to using cycle paths
Legal speed too BTW, my GoPro's wide angle lens makes things look more dramatic than they actually were.
:rolleyes:

I haven't crashed into a vehicle since the late 1980's, when a BMW jumped out of a wall.

I'm moving in next door to you...
 
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guerney

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WheezyRider

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One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is the school run. A huge amount of traffic is caused by this. Predominately, it is still the case that this is done by women in the household's second car. If households had a cargo bike instead of a second car, congestion could be significantly reduced. However, if you load up a 250 W cargo bike with a non athletic rider and a couple of kids, it isn't going to do much when you get to a hill. Cargo bikes I have seen generally tend to have huge motors, but are labelled as "250 W". Changing the law to 500 W would just allow cargo bike manufacturers to be a little more honest.
 

Az.

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I haven't crashed into a vehicle since the late 1980's, when a BMW jumped out of a wall.
and I hope you will ride safely without accident till end of your days. I am only saying road signs are for all and you completely ignore them. One can't rely on everybody around to keep him safe.

I'm moving in next door to you...
:oops:
 

Wayners

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For interest.
Not because it adds anything to what we know already.
She also made a video on a legal bike with throttle pictured. More like a chopper. Not for me..

 

Az.

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The issue is the wholesale abuse by SOME cyclists (...) of pavements and pedestrian only infrastructure.
Why? Cyclists are allowed to use pavements if they ride in respectful way of course.

A chap riding a 500 electric watt bike on the road at 20 miles an hour is not a danger to anyone else.
 

WheezyRider

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For interest.
Not because it adds anything to what we know already.
She also made a video on a legal bike with throttle pictured. More like a chopper. Not for me..

Why use an image of the British Isles when Eire is in the EU and doesn't follow UK law and I don't think the proposed law will even apply in NI?
 
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Tony1951

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Why use an image of the British Isles when Eire is in the EU and doesn't follow UK law and I don't think the proposed law will even apply in NI?
Technically, Eire is the British Isles. This is not just semantic pedantry. The term means the isles around Britain. The term Great Britain for the biggest island in the group is not some hangover of hubristic empire thinking, it refers to the biggest or greatest island - in size.

The cessation of a large part of Ireland from Westminster rule should really not have occured and would not have done if the people who caused the break were democratic. There were other possibilities on the table - Home Rule - a kind of devolution. Ireland had been governed by Westminster since the Middle Ages when the old Dark Ages kingdoms in these islands were combined together. Irish Republicanism of the 1916 and 192os and 1970s kind was always a violent, thuggish and undemocratic movement. Just ask the relatives of its victims. They even frequently fell out among themselves and murdered those not fanatical enough. De Valera allied himself with any foul government which was the enemy of the UK, including the Nazis. No helper was too vile if they would supply them arms. Somehow the advocates of violent republicanism always manage to pretend that they were especially victimised. They were not. Many of the avowedly bad things that happened in Ireland or Scotland or elsewhere, were products of the times and were pretty much equally visited on the inhabitants of all parts of the United Kingdom - especially if they were cessationist or revolutionary. Just ask the descendants of the lower classes of Manchester workers , or those in the North East, or the South West of England.
 
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Tony1951

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Why? Cyclists are allowed to use pavements if they ride in respectful way of course.



My post specifically referenced riding bicycles of any kind on pedestrian pavements - NOT shared resources, such as cycle paths shared with pedestrians. Riding on any path, cycle way, or road needs ONLY to be done in a respectful and considerate manner. I am a human powered and ebike rider, and also motorcyclist, and a car driver. There are inconsiderate louts among the populations of ALL of these transport modes. I detest them all.
 
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