Difference between delimited 250w motor VS 500w motor

[nabs]

We're just pointing out the law of the land, don't shoot the messengers. What's a "theoritical rule" by the way?

Just looked at the gocycle website:

Gocycle G3C

The Gocycle G3C is our streamlined, lightweight, electric bike. They say you can't re-invent the wheel or improve the design of the bicycle. We did both.

gocycle.com

where is says regarding maximum speed:
"****Electric bicycle speed regulations vary by country—consult your local authority for information."

and regarding motor power:
"*****Electric bicycle motor regulations vary by country—consult your local authority for information. "

Theoritical as in not practical reality. People can buy these bikes, they can insure them, and they are not being pulled over or getting in trouble for riding them. Practically speaking there is no issue at all.

I think we all know the 250w rule. But its a fact these cycles are being insured without issues.

Poiting out the rules is fine if you give the correct disclaimers, but saying they cannot be insured just does not seem to be right.

 

[Deleted member 25121]

Theoritical as in not practical reality. People can buy these bikes, they can insure them, and they are not being pulled over or getting in trouble for riding them. Practically speaking there is no issue at all.

I think we all know the 250w rule. But its a fact these cycles are being insured without issues.

Poiting out the rules is fine if you give the correct disclaimers, but saying they cannot be insured just does not seem to be right.

Once bikes are derestricted they become illegal to use and any insurance would be invalid.

I've Googled "Theoritical" but it didn't help, I don't understand what you're trying to say.

 

[nabs]

Until they screw up

Man arrested after woman hurt in London e-bike collision

London e-bike rider in court accused of causing death of pedestrian by dangerous driving

Nathan Rasiah, prosecuting, told the court: “In this case the evidence suggests it was travelling in excess of the road limit and the limit for the bike.

This is a completely different situation. He was arrested for going over the speed and power limit, not for riding a 250w motor bike on the road that could switch to a 500w bike off road.

Situation is not really relevant.

 

[flecc]

Just seems hard to believe all Bicycle dealers and shops are all lying and all conning all the potential customers in the UK.

That are not lying since the bikes are supplied in a legal pedelec state. But when their software is used to increase power or speed above pedelec limits, they become illegal to ride unless type approved, registered and number plated as motor vehicles.

The problem arises on how the law is interpreted. The DfT states that any use of an "off road" button to increase power or speed is strictly illegal, so it depends on whether pressing buttons on the bike or via an app constitutes an "off road" button in the law they've made. Only a senior law court can determine that, so until a test case is held it's like "Schrodinger's cat", both legal and illegal at the same time.

Here's some legal detail, first the exemption from being a motor vehicle:

"pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h"

Now what the DfT who make the law actually say:

"The use of an "Off Road Button" however is strictly forbidden now and is specifically mentioned in documents apertaining to new and existing guidelines."

So the question for the court is, "Does the bike being equipped in a way that the rider can opt to break the law make the bike illegal as a pedelec".
.

 

[soundwave]

you could insure it for theft but not for liability insurance if you killed someone on it as wont be covered as would be classed as a motor bike and would need to be registered as such.

any bike that has the ability to change the speed and power settings is classed as a of road switch even if the motor is only 250w.

 

[DroidOne]

I'm sure you can get the insurance, but what good will it do if you cause major harm / damage? There'll be an investigation where they'll go through the bicycle. Since a tuning kit is so obvious, they don't need to do much investigating.

 

[Nealh]

But you can insure them. On electricbikereview.co.uk there are users who have claimed money for their insured stolen GoCycles.

So you can indeed insure them. And there are people here insisting they cannot be insured. Just seems like in practical reality they are actually legal and can be insured. I think all this is more than worth pointing out to people who are looking for advice.

These bikes are insured by its owners all across Britain. And the police is not pulling these people over and throwing them in jail.

You and I and possibly the rest of us may be talking cross purposes when insurance is mentioned.
You are talking of theft insurance which is possible for any bike, on the other hand I and some of the other responders are taking about legality insurance, I.e. whether or not you can get 3rd party user insurance should you happen to run someone down or injure someone as they are classed as motor vehicles in the light moped class.

 

[PeterPi]

This >>>>> https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/electric-bike-guides/uk-electric-bike-law/

 

[Nosweat]

a 250w ebike motor can put out way more power than 250w under the 15mph limit why you can climb hills so easy so using more around 7-800w from the motor.

if you use a dongle to remove the speed limit it gives you no extra power at all and just removes the speed limit.

in full power assist mode this will half the range of the batt but you can use a lower power assist mode to get some range back.

I must have seen that video posted on here a dozen times and still can't work out what is the point it's trying to make!!!

 

[soundwave]

I must have seen that video posted on here a dozen times and still can't work out what is the point it's trying to make!!!

well its easy if you think about it and how hub motors work just look at the wattage used with no speed limit on a mid drive motor.

and i can add a fair few watts to that as well

 

[soundwave]

thats funny pmsl so if i fit all that crap on it and limit a 360v 150kw motor to 4kw for a moped for the test im fine then pmsl.

 

[manman94]

Simple way round the solution I found was buying KT controller dual 36/48v 17a it's amazing I have also a 250watt 36v rear hub bafang ,but know I'm able to use 36v 21ah battery and 48v 21ah battery .
I can switch them when the other is empty the options in the settings of the LCD 3 display that works with The KT. Controller gives you way more opportunities to tweak your bike,mine is now faster has more torque the response is amazing really soft start up in pedal assist.
But you can make it has strong as you feel you need in the settings,so my advice is get a KT controller with the compatible LCD you will feel the difference from the stock controller straight away.