Disabled cyclist; with one bad choice behind her, needs help with a new bike
- Thread starter Katymac
- Start date
Darn! Certainly a tricky set of constraints. Perhaps the OP could get a Helios converted like mine? It's a low-ish step over.
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Shown folded correctly, with handlebar between the wheels:
My Dahon Helips P8 BBS01B conversion is about 5kg heavier, so perhaps not suitable? It becomes 3.6kg lighter when the battery is removed. A hub conversion might be lighter?
If not too high to step over, Dahon's new Hit looks like a decent lightweight conversion candidate for mid-drive or hub. Swept back handlebars could be installed. It's converted weight would be about the same as mine. The Helios has a reinforcement bar over the hinge, which helps reduce hinge problems - CH White (well known Dahon sellers) have told me they have had very few problems with the Helios, but they have had issues with the newer Dahon frames without reinforcement, although also rare. Lots of issues with Tern hinges though. The Dahon Hit has cable reinforcement.
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I reckon you should try the Rambletta, because @saneagle has written a favourable account. The battery is too small and the motor system too weedy for my uses, but it looks likely to be your solution.
Is the Rabletta's battery easily removable? Hope so. If not, it should be. Makes a bike much more luggable, does a removable battery.
tldr.. But i did once over the posts, Might be a daft Question, but since the Range requirements seem to dictate a larger heavier battery, which in turn hampers OP's ability to lift up on and down off a train.
could a 2 x battery solution provide op with 1 x smaller lighter battery for a regular commute, that could even be recharged durring the day? and a larger 'journey' battery for longer leisure trips?
Would removing a heavy battery from the bike and placing in a bag that can be carried comfortably (day sack?) provide a more manageable lift-able bike mass on and off the train. granted OP will still be carrying the same mass but when more evenly distributed could it prove workable?
could a 2 x battery solution provide op with 1 x smaller lighter battery for a regular commute, that could even be recharged durring the day? and a larger 'journey' battery for longer leisure trips?
Would removing a heavy battery from the bike and placing in a bag that can be carried comfortably (day sack?) provide a more manageable lift-able bike mass on and off the train. granted OP will still be carrying the same mass but when more evenly distributed could it prove workable?
I'm guessing these are on your mystery Dahon/UDO (Unidentified Dahon Object). Wish I could use the "Plus" version of those, which look to me more like Schwalbe Greenguard, but it seems likely that my mudguards would need to be replaced with wider ones, and I haven't yet found any wider for my Dahon Helios.
You can't cancel it out after upvoting or downvoting, the only change you can make is the reverse, unlike other websites which feature the up/downvote feature.
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That's exactly what I do, for easier lifting up and down stairs, into and out of buses, trains etc. I simply place the battery into a rucksack, so center of mass is more central while moving the bike. I don't know if the Rambletta's battery is easily removable, but it should be if it isn't. I do know it can't have a BBS01B installed at some later stage if needed, if electrical assistance proves too low for the OP's health problems, should they increase, but I guess a more powerful controller could be installed and the Rambletta's battery cell pack upgraded for higher power, hub motor replaced. With it's rear hub motor, the unfolded Rambletta would still be rear heavy with battery removed, if it's removable.
@Nealh mentioned battery removal making a bike easier to handle in post #62.
The 806 also looks rear heavy unfolded, with it's battery removed.
The OP's Crusa has the easily removable battery advantage over the Rambletta... but the Crusa, Rambletta and 806 are still rear heavy when their batteries are removed (if the Rambletta's battery can be removed). A mid-drive has the bike balance advantage, depending on where the battery is located of course.
Could the Rambletta's battery connector be replaced with an easy to disconnect/connect type, for easy removal? If the battery is behind a screwed on plate or something, removal is probably impractical. Could battery cover screws or hex bolts be replaced with tool-less knurled thumb bolts? I've never seen a Rambletta or 806 in the flesh.
The battery on my bike is easily removed after simply turning a key.
I will eventually get around to mounting my battery onto the aluminium rectangular box section I've bought, replacing the toxic chemical saturated but rot-proof pallet wood I've temporarily used (temporarily? It's been more than three years and over 4000km!) for the battery on the rear pannier rack, so that CofG while riding is closer to the seat tube. But it really isn't necessary unless I need space to stash electronics for indicators, within the rectangular box section, if I decide to install indicators.Another advantage of a folding bike, is that it can be slightly folded in two ways or more, to snake around massive dubs of pandemic doomsday prep beans one might have stacked up high like pillars around one's home. I admit it's a niche advantage.
@Wisper Bikes and @Woosh really should recognise the highly marketable attractive attributes of lightweight and powerful 20" wheeled mid-motored folding bikes like mine. I'm sure they could come up with prettified versions with batteries more centrally located, which would suit buyers with health issues like the OP, if they tried really hard. Very old or/and really fat buyers would also be interested. Next time I see Rapid Fatso, I'll try to sell him mine - he looks like he can afford it, getting that fat aint cheap. After shedding more than 3.5 stones, I now weigh an unfit 68kg, and in my experience of dragging 90kg trailers up steep hills with my bike, no fatso needs to buy an illegal Sur-ron to get up hills... unless they weigh substantially more than 158kg. And that was when the controller limit was just 15A - it can be 20A, but it's presently 18A on my bike to increase hill climbing speed. If they do weigh more than than 158kg/24.9 stones, they could convert a Dahon Hit and fit a smaller chainwheel than my 52T. On the other hand, the Dahon Hit's rider weight limit is only 137kg/21.6 stones... back to the drawing board.
@Katymac - I see Halfords sell Dahon HITs:
Dahon HIT Folding Bike - 20" Wheel - Black | Halfords UK
Shop the latest Commute on a fantastic bike then fold it away with ease, introducing the Dahon HIT Folding Bike. Have your bike built and delivered straight to your door. at Halfords UK
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I hope Halfords haven't installed non-Dahon parts to save costs - they did with their version of the Dahon Mariner. Perhaps try one out for step overability? If it suits, maybe getting one converted with a BBS01B would be an option? There are several BBS01B owners on this forum who can suggest firmware programming tweaks. If you didn't need it to fold, the battery can be mounted centrally - @saneagle did that with his Dahon Jetstream rear hub motor conversion some years ago, by making a fibreglass battery mounting point over the hinge. Alternatively wood can be used, like this chap:
I haven't done that, because I need my bikes to fold. Otherwise, it'll have to go on the pannier rack, and you'd need a compatible pannier rack with battery installed, if you want to use pannier bags - but then of course, the center of gravity wouldn't be near the middle of the bike. If the Halford's website is to be believed, total weight would be approximately 12kg + 5.6kg BBS01B kit +3.6kg 19.2Ah/691Wh battery = 21.2kg. Bear in mind Halfords may have copy/pasted weight of the Dahon HIT without mudguards and pannier rack from elsewhere, so definitely clarify it's weight as seen with Halfords, or whoever you're interested in buying one from.
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Don't be afraid to ask people for help.
Maybe install a ramp at home?
Don't be silly Kate. There is nothing embarrassing about disability. We have nothing but a sympathy for you.
Step through frames are really nice. Ideal for women and some men.
Did you read what Seneagle wrote above? I think it is an option you might like to consider:
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.I'm really good at creating solutions - when we moved in I insisted on our bedroom being on the ground floor, I can do stairs now but soon? Who knows
The bathroom has grab rails from the start, great for when I started falling!
Tomorrow is my first day at work using "access to work" funding from the DWP which is exciting/scary all at once!
Got a test ride booked, I really miss cycling, I'd put off buying a new battery (I'm down to about 8 miles) for the Crusa as I 'knew' my new bike was due & now until its sold I have no cash
So today is the day I say to my brother I can't ride it and ask for a list of its components so I can start advertising it - don't envisage that being a fun conversation
The bathroom has grab rails from the start, great for when I started falling!
Tomorrow is my first day at work using "access to work" funding from the DWP which is exciting/scary all at once!
Got a test ride booked, I really miss cycling, I'd put off buying a new battery (I'm down to about 8 miles) for the Crusa as I 'knew' my new bike was due & now until its sold I have no cash
So today is the day I say to my brother I can't ride it and ask for a list of its components so I can start advertising it - don't envisage that being a fun conversation
Not sure if this is helpful but I wrote it so:
It has to be step through, I cannot lift my right leg high enough to get on the green bike without using my hand to lift it
I cannot tilt the bike and bring it under me with pannier bags on because I can't lift my right leg that high and conversely if I use my left leg I can't stand on my right
I prefer sit up and beg/dutch/almost beach cruiser, with little strain on an upright back, and little or none of my weight is on my wrists
I need to load on the front of a caravan, a towball carrier or put in the back of a car - the car fits the Crusa easily
The centre of gravity should be in the centre - I struggle with the weight of the bike being at the back & this has led to the handlebars twisting and the bike falling
The centre of balance & weight on the new bike is amazing both while cycling and when maneuvering (eg to get close enough to a post to lock it, to move it to oneside in the shed and I imagine to load onto a train)
The difference in weight between the bikes is 10% of my body weight (Crusa 24kgs Fazua 17kgs)
I need a high level of assistance from my motor/battery - because I have low muscle tone and poor muscle recovery
I need a battery to take me 20 miles and home or the ability to change batteries mid journey
It has to be step through, I cannot lift my right leg high enough to get on the green bike without using my hand to lift it
I cannot tilt the bike and bring it under me with pannier bags on because I can't lift my right leg that high and conversely if I use my left leg I can't stand on my right
I prefer sit up and beg/dutch/almost beach cruiser, with little strain on an upright back, and little or none of my weight is on my wrists
I need to load on the front of a caravan, a towball carrier or put in the back of a car - the car fits the Crusa easily
The centre of gravity should be in the centre - I struggle with the weight of the bike being at the back & this has led to the handlebars twisting and the bike falling
The centre of balance & weight on the new bike is amazing both while cycling and when maneuvering (eg to get close enough to a post to lock it, to move it to oneside in the shed and I imagine to load onto a train)
The difference in weight between the bikes is 10% of my body weight (Crusa 24kgs Fazua 17kgs)
I need a high level of assistance from my motor/battery - because I have low muscle tone and poor muscle recovery
I need a battery to take me 20 miles and home or the ability to change batteries mid journey
My Dahon suggestions are rendered useless. Can a BBS01B kit be fitted to a dead old Wisper 806? Could a downtube battery fitted to it's frame? If so you could use a large capacity downtube battery good for many miles, and after the hub motor is removed, rack and rear battery replaced, weight distribution would be more central. I don't know what the final weight of this chimera would be, however. Perhaps @Wisper Bikes has a 806 with a dead battery he can't sell at full price? He might know the 806's unconverted weight.
This looks similar-ish to the 806, but I can't find it for sale anywhere to discover information about it's weight and bottom bracket.
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I thought I'd hit paydirt with this Apollo Contour aluminium framed step through, but if a BBS01B can be installed and a custom battery mounting point made for it's curved frame... it's converted weight would be 13.9kg bike + 5.6kg BBS01B kit + 3.6kg 19.Ah/691Wh battery = 23.1kg. I give up.
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I have done that some 10 years back. This is the Woosh Zephyr CDN, sold for £749 in 2014.
Folding bike - Kudos Secret vs Woosh Zephyr CD vs Other? | Pedelecs - Electric Bike Community
There is no real need for a CD motor on folding bikes, most people see folding bikes as a low cost option, not for trail riding where the money is.
I rode the Zephyr CDN for a year. Absolutely loved it because it has hub gear, small wheels, throttle, climbs any hill and a piece of cake to carry in cars etc. However, the CD motor added about £120 to the price. People prefer the cheaper Zephyr with Bafang rear hub motor, still climb any hill, still easy to carry in cars but lighter and cheaper. If you were around the forum at that time (2014), the Kudos Secret was a great success. It had 16" wheels so even lighter and also cheaper to make.
hub gear on folding bikes gives perfect chainline, avoids problems with damage to the derailleur, a common issue with folding bikes. Brompton bikes for example wouldn't work without a hub gear.
@Katymac - My final go at this, is to suggest a non-folding Brompton, if you can step over one. They're pretty low. Non-folding because you've stated that you don't want a rear heavy bike, which rules out a rear hub motor and battery... so it'll have to be the easy to pedal BBS01B mid-motor, with the battery secured to the frame (I'm sure someone will say if this can't be done). It won't fold properly with a BBS01B mid-motor. 11.97kg C Line + 5.6kg BBS01B kit + 3.6kg 19.2Ah/691Wh battery = 21.17kg. It can weigh less than that with a smaller battery, 15Ah, 13Ah etc. No hub gears for high motor torque to ruin, light, weight distribution is more central, you could fit swept back handlebars for a more upright riding posture, good range, will be able to climb any hill with ease, after a bit of firmware programming especially. Small wheels though, but it doesn't seem possible that you can have everything on your list of requirements, not that I can see anyway.
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But of course
Very roughly:20 miles x 2 (return) = 40 miles per journey.
Consumption on the flat "not very fast" 10 Wh/mile x 1.5 (effort mostly from motor) = 15 Wh/mile.
Consumption for that distance on the flat = 40 x 15 = 600 Wh
The worst of the hills you showed = 80m estimated climb for a return journey.
Bicycle all up weight = 70 + 15 (luggage) + 22 (est for bike) = 107kg
Consumption climbing = 80 x 107 x 9.8 / 60 minutes / 60 seconds = 23 Wh
Battery capacity needed = (600 + 23) / 75% motor efficiency in hilly terrain x 1.5 (headwind, cold weather, aging, range anxiety etc.) x 1 (journeys between charges) = very large, most likely two batteries around 8kg+ in total.
Hopefully this points to some available compromises all round, in journeys and in the bike. Some 'unfiltered' ideas:
That journey capability wouldn't be unusual for an e-trike or velomobile but it's tricky to fit that much battery on a two wheeler. Long range, extra assistance and practicality point to a compromise or a petrol scooter. If it's only for rides in mild weather returning partly by train that would make a big difference.
How useful would the Crusa be with the battery strapped to the side of the frame? If it were two thin new batteries sandwiching the frame, any use? Old advice but if you're fluent in standing next to a bike and using the brakes to shunt it around obstacles, forward and reverse, it feels a lot lighter.
You can wring good comfort and performance out of small wheeled bikes. This pic is with 7kg of shopping (bike is 14kg), with it being suspended and central I scarcely feel it.
Can you find out how long and steep your hills are (max) or post a location? It affects the kind of motor that's best.
Attachments
@AntonyC - Aha! Your mystery Dahon is mystery no longer! Vitesse!
My BBS01B consumed 16Wh per mile for 43 miles over this terrain with a 19.2Ah/691Wh battery and controller limited to 15A, trouble is Google Maps is very fiddly - this can't be right, I cannot have ended up at a lower altitude than I started at, it was a round trip! I might have another go at depicting the terrain. I'm sure a Brompton BBS01B conversion with it's smaller 16" wheels can use less battery power, doing the same journey. In the unlikely scenario that it doesn't, the controller could be limited to 14A in firmware, and on a Brompton it'd still enable the climbing of any hill with a road on it.
My BBS01B consumed 16Wh per mile for 43 miles over this terrain with a 19.2Ah/691Wh battery and controller limited to 15A, trouble is Google Maps is very fiddly - this can't be right, I cannot have ended up at a lower altitude than I started at, it was a round trip! I might have another go at depicting the terrain. I'm sure a Brompton BBS01B conversion with it's smaller 16" wheels can use less battery power, doing the same journey. In the unlikely scenario that it doesn't, the controller could be limited to 14A in firmware, and on a Brompton it'd still enable the climbing of any hill with a road on it.
@Katymac - an expensive option would be a BBS01B conversion of a 7.95kg T Line Brompton (4 hub gears) + 5.6kg BBS01B kit + 3.6kg 192.Ah/691Wh battery = 17.15kg. With the Bromptons smaller wheels, the BBS01B's power could be lowered in firmware to prevent damaging the rear hub gears... I think it will still be able to climb hills easily. But the T line aint cheap - I'd have to sell a kidney, possibly both, sold as seen:
www.brompton.com
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Lots of stuff to read and understand - thanks all
I don't know how to work out the incline of hills it isn't on Google maps in a format I can see
But I don’t mind saying I'm in Ipswich and my 2 hills are Willoughby Road & Station Street/Luther Road at the top end and the dip in the road on Stoke Park Drive
I don't know how to work out the incline of hills it isn't on Google maps in a format I can see
But I don’t mind saying I'm in Ipswich and my 2 hills are Willoughby Road & Station Street/Luther Road at the top end and the dip in the road on Stoke Park Drive
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