eZee Torq owners: What range are you getting from your battery?

aroncox

Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2006
122
0
Does anyone else find it pretty hard to cycle once the battery is flat? Is it just because I'm so unfit, or the becuase the bike is so heavy, or the gears are not a good ratio. I find going up even a small hill on the easiest gear pretty hard once the battery has died.

Of course this is not an issue most of the time, but I have to say I would never ride my eZee Torq without the motor running as it's just too hard, which could make it a pain to go out with my wife who is thinking of getting a standard bike.
 

rsscott

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 17, 2006
1,398
194
It certainly is a shock to the system once the battery has given up. I don't think the bike is particularly difficult to pedal, I assume we've been so used to riding with the assist that once the battery gives out the bike 'feels' a lot heavier. It reminds me of scuba diving as you are practically weightless under the water but once you try to get out you certainly notice the weight belt!

On my previous bike I did have a couple of occasions where I forgot to charge the bike at work and had to ride home unassisted. While I couldn't get anywhere near the usual top speed, it wasn't terribly difficult after the first couple of miles or so.

Does anyone else find it pretty hard to cycle once the battery is flat? Is it just because I'm so unfit, or the becuase the bike is so heavy, or the gears are not a good ratio. I find going up even a small hill on the easiest gear pretty hard once the battery has died.

Of course this is not an issue most of the time, but I have to say I would never ride my eZee Torq without the motor running as it's just too hard, which could make it a pain to go out with my wife who is thinking of getting a standard bike.
 

aroncox

Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2006
122
0
You're probably right, but I'm not going to experiment to find out, hopefully the motor will kepp on running. However I may buy a standard backup bike in the future for those trips that don;t need a motor.

It certainly is a shock to the system once the battery has given up. I don't think the bike is particularly difficult to pedal, I assume we've been so used to riding with the assist that once the battery gives out the bike 'feels' a lot heavier. It reminds me of scuba diving as you are practically weightless under the water but once you try to get out you certainly notice the weight belt!

On my previous bike I did have a couple of occasions where I forgot to charge the bike at work and had to ride home unassisted. While I couldn't get anywhere near the usual top speed, it wasn't terribly difficult after the first couple of miles or so.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,826
30,389
The Torq is terrible without the motor. It is heavy compared to a normal bike, and those fat tyres drag very much more than the smaller section ones on normal bikes. Most of all though, it has no low gears. It's supposed bottom gear is 58" (not as published), and that's definitely a middle gear. For example, the Giant Lafree Twist with the Nexus 3 speed has a 58" middle gear, with 43" low and 79" high. That 58" makes the Torq really bad for pedalling on even the slightest slope.

The Quando is even worse though. It has one highish gear of 70", and being a folder, it's impossible to put real energy into the pedals without the flexing wasting much of the power. I tried pedalling it on the flat once when the battery ran out just short of home. Never again. Next time I'll fold it and call myself a taxi. :D
 

imellor

Pedelecer
Oct 25, 2006
67
4
Flecc

Please could you explain how the gear ratios are calculated on cycles? I have seen the values eg 58" etc before but do not understand what they relate to. Perhaps this could go in the FAQ!!!!

Ian

The Torq is terrible without the motor. It is heavy compared to a normal bike, and those fat tyres drag very much more than the smaller section ones on normal bikes. Most of all though, it has no low gears. It's supposed bottom gear is 58" (not as published), and that's definitely a middle gear. For example, the Giant Lafree Twist with the Nexus 3 speed has a 58" middle gear, with 43" low and 79" high. That 58" makes the Torq really bad for pedalling on even the slightest slope.

The Quando is even worse though. It has one highish gear of 70", and being a folder, it's impossible to put real energy into the pedals without the flexing wasting much of the power. I tried pedalling it on the flat once when the battery ran out just short of home. Never again. Next time I'll fold it and call myself a taxi. :D
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,826
30,389
Yes Ian, with pleasure. The calculation is the number of teeth on the chainwheel, divided by the number of teeth on the rear sprocket, multiplied by the overall wheel diameter in inches. For example, on the Torq:

Chainwheel teeth/ rear sprocket teeth x wheel diameter with current Kendo tyre

52 divided by 25 x 28" = 58.24"

for the bottom gear.

When hub gears are used, it's necessary to know the internal ratios to determine all the gears. On most hub gears the middle gear is direct drive, so the upper and lower ones have to be calculated from that.

The lazy way to do all this is to go to Kinetics website and download their handy gear calculator which includes facilities for some major hub gears:

www.kinetics.org.uk
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,826
30,389
P.s.

All this inches business started with the bikes commonly known as Penny Farthings, proper name the Ordinary (as opposed to the Safety Bicycle which is what we ride). An alternative name for Ordinaries used now by competitive riders is the High Wheeler.

Ordinary riders would compare bikes by mentioning their wheel diameter, e.g. "mine's 48", (no rude jokes now!) or "mine's 66". Of course the limit was set by the internal leg measurement of the rider with a bit extra for the cranks and fork top clearance, and it was this limitation which meant the cranks were always short on those high wheelers.

The distance an Ordinary would travel for one turn of the pedals was their inch measure times Pi (3.14) of course, but when the Safety Bicycle was invented with it's chain drive, that was no longer valid, so it became necessary to add in the ratio of the chainwheel to the rear sprocket to arrive at the value to multiply by Pi.

Footnote: You may have gathered from the first paragraph above that high wheelers are still in use. They have many fans worldwide, there are international rallies and races, and there's even a world record for the largest number of people on them in a row, holding each other upright with one arm and no-one supporting to the ground. The record last set was way over a hundred in a row, I think it was 137 Ordinaries. I've worked on them and ridden a high one and it was frankly terrifying. :eek:
 
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mithril

Pedelecer
Oct 27, 2006
40
1
Clay Cross, Derbyshire
Pedalling Torq unassisted

I've just been out for my first ride on my new Torq tonight. Did about 13/14 miles (didn't check the velo computer :eek: ) before the battery completely died on me. However, I was pretty much motoring most of the way and not pedalling as much as I would normally as I was trying to get a feel of the performance characteristics.

My main point of this post however is using the bike without the motor. I had a spin on a demonstrators Torq a couple of days ago and he had replaced the standard chainring with a smaller one. Now I have been able to compare, I feel fitting a smaller chainring makes for a better experience altogether. I will not be able to get up some of the really steep hills I'm faced with on my commute with the standard configuration, but I'm sure I will with a smaller chainring. I feel cycling on insignificant inclines takes more effort than it should (even accounting for the weight).

I know flecc has considered this (we're briefly discussed it elsewhere on the forum) but prefers the high speed downhill thrills he gets from the current ratios :cool: It's horses for courses, but I would like to have my bike just that bit more useable if the battery has gone and I certainly want the Torq to climb better.

I'll be contacting my demonstrator to find out the size of chainring he used. I've no idea how difficult a job it is (I've done little else than pump up tyres on my bikes over the last few years) and I assume the chain length will need adjusting.

I'll let you know how I get on.
 

rsscott

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 17, 2006
1,398
194
Fitting a new chainring isn't a difficult job although you need to make sure the one you choose fits as flush as the current one if you can. I haven't replaced it on the Torq, but I replaced one on my previous electric bike which worked quite well.

I'm based in E.Anglia and even though the roads are pretty flat, I almost never use 8th gear as it's rare I can hit even 30mph. If you've got hills like Flecc where you can hit 40mph+, I'm not so sure you even need to pedal!

If you do decide to change it yourself, would it be ok if you photograph the process as it would be great to add to the FAQ.

Welcome to the electric bike club! (P.S. you might want to charge your Torq and then top-up charge the first couple of times)
 

mithril

Pedelecer
Oct 27, 2006
40
1
Clay Cross, Derbyshire
:) Thanks. Yep - I recalled an earlier post of yours that suggested the 'top ups' on the initial charges so that's what I've been doing.

I'll certainly photograph the process if I do it myself.
 

robert letts

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 5, 2006
13
0
lithium battery life

I get two miles on an eeze torq on lithium when the red light comes on. I have had the bike since the summer and have ridden 69 miles - surely there must be a fault? I find 50 cycles pretty hands off when it comes to warranty help - does anyone else have problems?
 

susie

Just Joined
Nov 5, 2006
3
0
re ezee torq

My problem is a vey loud screech when I apply the motor. I 'm also finding 50 cycles a little 'hands off' . My husbands bike is perfect.
Re the battery... Our batteries seem to last a long time, but havent done any calculations.
 

rsscott

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 17, 2006
1,398
194
Hi Robert and welcome!

How many miles are you getting before red ? It does vary considerably as you'll find by all the owners reports on this forum. Two miles seems about right before the battery is exhausted. When you refer to a fault, could you explain a bit more about what you mean and we'll try to help !

I get two miles on an eeze torq on lithium when the red light comes on. I have had the bike since the summer and have ridden 69 miles - surely there must be a fault? I find 50 cycles pretty hands off when it comes to warranty help - does anyone else have problems?
 

rsscott

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 17, 2006
1,398
194
Hi Susie and welcome!

I had this too when my Torq was new, but it seems to have bedded down nicely now and it hasn't occured again. Here is another thread that can provide you with further information:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14


My problem is a vey loud screech when I apply the motor. I 'm also finding 50 cycles a little 'hands off' . My husbands bike is perfect.
Re the battery... Our batteries seem to last a long time, but havent done any calculations.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,826
30,389
Hello Robert. Do you mean that after just two miles with a fully charged battery the red light first comes on? If so, and it happens when you hit a fairly steep hill, that doesn't necessarily mean a fault so long as the bike doesn't cut out. The meter records the fractional voltage changes on line as the battery discharges, but when the throttle is opened wide for a hill and speed drops, the drain on the battery also dips the voltage. If the meter returns to amber and then green afterwards when you hit the flat, there's not a problem.

Poor battery connections can also cause this problem, and unplugging and replugging will show whether this is to blame. For more help with connection problems, use this link:

http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/flecc/batteries.html#bookmark1
 

mithril

Pedelecer
Oct 27, 2006
40
1
Clay Cross, Derbyshire
My range so far

I tried my commute route out for the first time today (Clay Cross to Sheffield). A 36 mile round trip non-stop over pretty hilly terrain with quite a lot of wind.

I have two batteries so I could swap for the return journey. On both legs I think I had a little juice left but I was amber and finding it difficult to stay out of red towards both ends. I only went full throttle for a few minutes each way and only downhill so the battery stayed green (it's like an arcade game watching those lights and trying to stay in the green!) Have a few steep hills where the battery dips to red for quite a while but I will change the chainring soon for a smaller one so I can help out more on the gradients. I was still very pleased though that I managed to get the Torq up the big hills in Sheffield as I was worried I'd have to push for that bit :)

I also proved I only need one battery for my commute as I can recharge at work during the day. However.... I'm still a bit nervous of being left with a dead motor (until I sort the chainring out) so I'm going to carry the spare battery for a few days yet. I hope the extra weight isn't too much of a drain on the motor or I could be defeating the object!

It's a credit to the Torq that I did this trip without getting jelly legs at the end or dripping in sweat. My only pains are, to put it politely, in the saddle area and not where you might expect but... well lets just say I'm glad I've already had kids :eek: Get the same problem on my MTB though so it's not the Torqs fault, I must just ride funny.
 

mithril

Pedelecer
Oct 27, 2006
40
1
Clay Cross, Derbyshire
Sorry - should have said I'm still riding restricted to 15mph. I will experiment with derestricting once I've a few commutes under my belt..... I do the like the look on car drivers faces when you pull away fast :D
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,826
30,389
Mithril

I think your range will suffer quite a lot when you switch to derestricted. Don't worry about the weight of carrying a spare battery though, I've often done this and don't even notice the weight, or the inbalance of having it in one side pannier. This even remains true if I carry a NiMh which is about a kilo heavier.

Also, the chap who did the London to Paris run was carrying two spare batteries, and he had an injured leg.
 

robert letts

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 5, 2006
13
0
ezee torq problems

Hi, the red light comes on at around 2 miles into the ride. I would like to let the bike run out of power to test the range in restricted pedel assist mode but I am sure I could not ride it back home without walking it up the hills (even though I am a fit cyclist), whilst it is currently set up with gear ratios that basically can't tackle hills even with pedal assist. As this was the point of buying the bike I am slightly fed up with it.

I have three main problems with the bike; 1 excessive shudder from front wheel on braking, 2 the red light problem, 3 its impossible to get up hills (compared to my normal bike, a completely standard moutain bike). I hope I can get 50 cycles to take the bike back to their workshop for a thorough inspection as I have only done 70 miles since I bought the bike in July.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,826
30,389
OK Robert

First the red light is not a problem. I wish manfacturers would do as the long established e-bike makers like Heinzman and Giant do, stick the meter where it can't be seen when riding so it doesn't worry people. You see, there is no way that a battery's content can truly be measured by a meter, the only measure we have for the content is watt/hours, so it can only be measured by using up the content over time. The meters we have just measure the small voltage drop as the battery content is used up, and that's roughly good enough a measure when the bike is standing still. Trouble is, when on the move and we open the throttle wide, the current drain into the motor also drops the voltage, so that's recorded on the meter as well, nothing to do with the battery content. The equivalent on a car is when we plug the starter with headlights on, the headlights dim due to the voltage drop the motor causes. When the weather is cold, that drops the battery voltage as well, so you can see how pointless these meters really are.

The Li-ion batteries are nominally 37 volt, the NiMh are 36 volt. If I put the NiMh that I also have into the Torq fully charged, I can go onto the hill outside my home and get the red light on immediately, simply because it's started with a lower voltage point, nothing to do with what's in the battery. So my advice on that is, forget the meter when on the move, better still, put a strip of black PVC insulating tape over the LEDs, and just check the level when standing still. Find out your range, starting with an assumption of around 13 miles and gradually take a bit more until you find the cut out point near to home.

The shudder is probably just head bearing adjustment, this beds in very quickly and often loosens in the first few miles. Any cycle dealer could fix this easily.

However, none of this alters the fact that you have the wrong bike I'm afraid. The Torq is no hill climber, the motor is far too high geared in the 28" wheel for that. It's the equivalent of having a car locked into top gear all the time, fine for gentle main road slopes, but brought to a stall on steeper slopes. Indeed, the manual with the bike says up to 10% slopes, so anything over 1 in 10 is outside it's specification. I also have a Quando which uses the same motor in a 20" wheel, and that can pull away without pedalling up a 12% (1 in 8) hill, so you can see it's just the wheel size that's the problem. The eZee Sprint with the 7 speed hub would have been a much better choice since it's lower motor gearing makes it a better climber despite it's slightly lower power motor (500 watts against 570 watts). As you've done such a low mileage, I suggest you try to negotiate a change of model with 50cycles as the only solution that will give some satisfaction.

P.S. You're right about the derailleur ratios, the 58" low really being a middle gear. From a design point of view it's right of course, since the gears need to match the motor gearing so that a rider can give help within the motor's operating range. However, that gearing emphasizes that the bike is not a hill climber. Changing the chainwheel from the 52 teeth to 48 would help slightly, but not very much.
 
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