Hi - I have a few questions about what to choose?

[Woosh]

An ebike is a motor vehicle. You can only ask for it to be considered as a normal push bike if it is conform to standard set in EN19514. A certificate is required for that and your supplier should provide it. Otherwise, your bike is considered a motorbike, you need type approval or submit your bike for single vehicle approval. You should read the stuff on https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/motorcycle-single-vehicle-approval website to understand the implications. A bbshd kit won't pass SVA.
The police don't normally have time to arrest everyone riding one but you should know the law.

 

[Az.]

OK... I am out.
You said you wanted advice, but it looks like you already made decision.

 

[goral]

An ebike is a motor vehicle. You can only ask for it to be considered as a normal push bike if it is conform to standard set in EN19514. A certificate is required for that and your supplier should provide it. Otherwise, your bike is considered a motorbike, you need type approval or submit your bike for single vehicle approval. You should read the stuff on https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/motorcycle-single-vehicle-approval website to understand the implications. A bbshd kit won't pass SVA.
The police don't normally have time to arrest everyone riding one but you should know the law.

Not really, because you can build your own motor.
This is not prohibited.
And that's exactly what I'm writing about, you want to do a test, you can do it. In the same way, if you are stopped by the police and the case goes to court (the policeman has no right to destroy your property because he is judging something), the court, as I wrote above, will refer the case to an expert - perhaps in this case to such a certification.
The end!

Why do you think the BBSHD will not pass certification? On what grounds?
The entire power of the motor is its controller, set at 250W it will give exactly that. Even if it can give a million watts!
And 250W is legal.
I still see that you can't distinguish between power potential and power use.

A police officer, if you disagree with his decision, has to start the whole procedure related to the investigation.
In this procedure, he must give the reason for the seizure, the evidence, the testimony of the witnesses (you) and, if it comes to the seizure of evidence, a receipt must be issued, justifying the seizure.
Afterwards, the police officer has 14 days to charge you, he has to do it officially, the papers have to be signed by his superior. Charges must be made in accordance with the evidence and not in accordance with conjecture. You have 60 days to appeal and go to court. The police can request to have the evidence examined by an expert, but they must inform you and have your consent.
If you do not agree, the police will apply to the court for an expert examination.

 

[Woosh]

That's just the law. You can build a vehicle but to use it on public roads, your vehicle needs to be licensed. To have your ebike considered as an electrical assisted cycle which allows access to public cycle paths without insurance number plate and wearing of a helmet, you need as I said, a certificate of conformity to EN15194 or an SVA

 

[saneagle]

It is just sticker...
1.I can make similar with 25000W no problems.
2. I can remove sticker.

Is this covered in the law somewhere?
From the government website or from the links that have been posted here, it only says 250W when pedalling.
And not the potential power of the device - these are two completely different things!


No, a police officer is not an expert on everything, besides, a police officer does not have the certificates to say so.
We live in a country where there is some law and not the discretion of someone.
A policeman may think the power is over 250W but to stop a bike, he must have proof!
If he stops the bike - because he thinks he has - then the case goes to court because, for example, I don't agree with his opinion.
According to procedure, the police officer then takes the matter to court.
The court appoints an expert to establish what the engine power was at the time of use.
If the police officer keeps the bike and I win the case, I can claim compensation!
This is how it works in another case, and I think it will be very similar in the e-bike case.
The whole myth of the police officer's omniscience comes from the fact that people are afraid to say NO to a police officer!
If the police officer hears a definite NO! then 75% of the time he will drop the case. This is known from autopsy.
The police only rely on your confession.

ps.
Once you confess to a police officer, you shut down your entire legal path, 90% of the time.
So by the way, I recommend everyone not to admit to anything when talking to a police officer.

When the police decided to crack down on illegal bikes, they did a bit of training first, so they knew what they were looking for and found a lot of them.

The biggest risk is if someone sees you ridining along quite fast and they're a jobsworth, annoyed at your privilege, just jearlous or anything like that, so they grass you up to the police. In my area, the police have an active campagne of encouraging people to provide intelligence on illegal vehicles. They posted that in our NextDoor group along with a hotline. It's also here:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=129771605701696

https://www.westmercia.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/asb/asb/antisocial-behaviour/vehicle-nuisance-involving-cars-bikes-and-mopeds/

Read what those links say about riding off-road.

 

[saneagle]

A police officer can believe whatever he or she wants. Legal decisions are made by the court.
This is a first.

That's not true. the road traffic act allows the police to deal with it. If they catch you on an illegal bike, they seize and impound it, then ask you to provide insurance if you want it back, which you won't be able to do. They give you a limited amount of time to either prove that it's not illegal, provide insurance, then they crush it.

Ten years ago, hardly anybody knew what an electric bike was, let alone what was legal. Five years ago, there was a pretty good chance that you would never get caught, and there were no cases of people prosecuted for riding illegal electric bikes, though plenty of anecdotes about seizures. Now, it's getting tighter and tighter as everybody gets the knowledge to deal with it. The problem is not so much the police, but the everyday people, who might report you. There are many cases of prosecution and countless seizures.

 

[saneagle]

Why do you think the BBSHD will not pass certification? On what grounds?
The entire power of the motor is its controller, set at 250W it will give exactly that. Even if it can give a million watts!

It's very simple. The law limits the type of motor you can use, not the power. The info on the Government website is incorrect. The motor must be RATED at 250w or less. The BBSHD is rated at 1000w, so you simply cannot use it no matter how little power you put through it or what alterations you make to it. Only the manufacturer can change the rating, which they sometimes do if you buy enough from them and ask them nicely.

One other thing to be careful of. If you make your own label or alter the markings on the motor and the police find out, you can be done for fraud, which would have a significant affect on your life. If they catch you on an illegal bike, there's normally no fine or prosecution. They just put it in the crusher unless there are serious safety defects, like a brake not working, then you get done.

 

[matthewslack]

You are totally wrong, but that's not any fault of your logic, just that where the law has ended up is not amenable to logic!

A motor is only legal for EAPC use if it's manufacturer has done certain things relating to testing, certification and labelling. The real world max power is irrelevant. And there is nothing a customer can do to change that.

You were not helped by coming across the rather loose wording including the words 'maximum power 250W', but that is not a full statement of the law, rather it is a gross layman's simplification that it's writers did not intend to be the starting point for deep analysis!

The good news is that a legally compliant motor is all you need, as long as you get the right one.

 

[thelarkbox]

If the controller is set to 250W then the motor, will give you 250W assist and not 1000W - i.e. 100% legal.

This is how I understand it!

Yeah but no, the battery and controller supply volts and current Watts is the resultant product and measure of the power as a result of Volts x amps.

the regs were written by a lawyer and not an engineer so are badly written.

Afaik Lots of bikes and scooters have been nabbed by plod No-one has taken the argument to court and tested the law? Not because the wording of the regs are watertight, but because the intent of the regs are pretty clear.

 

[guerney]

@goral - I'm not at all clear as to why you want a 1000W BBSHD - are you worried about hills? As others have posted, you can legally use a more powerful hub motor controller, for power output far beyond a useless mere 250W. Or if you get a 36V BBS01B, you can increase the controller amp limit to 20A = 720W, and set "Keep current" to 100%, using a programming cable and free Windows or Android software. A mere 15A (540W) is sufficient for my uses, enabled me to drag 90kg trailers up steep hills, but I recently increased to 18A (36V X 18A = 648W) to more rapidly outrun drink and drug maddened punk scum chasing me uphill on foot and by car (turn up video volume). In future, the extra 3A will keep me further out of the reach of fucking mental living shit chasing me on foot - I was going too slow for their unhinged scummy punk shitstain mates in a car to be interested in "Grabbing" my bike, which might not have been the case zooming uphill propelled by 1440W of BBSHD. In my experience on 20" wheels, you won't have any trouble with any tarmaced hill using a BBS01B at 15A and "Keep current" at 100%, unless you weigh more than about 160kg/25 stones... and if you experience difficulties ascending hills using a larger wheeled bicycle conversion, simply increase the controller amp limit and/or alter your gearing.

I particularly didn't like the sound of "FUCK HIM!!!" Would I have been raped riding a BBSHD?

Why not get a BBS01B, and go on a short frugal cycling holiday somewhere nicer than wherever you are with the money saved? I've never bought anything from PSW Power, but their price looks good. You can buy a decent battery from elsewhere.

Bafang BBS01B 36V 250W Mid Drive Motor 8fun Bicycle Electric eBike Conversion Kit mid drive ebike kit new version

Bafang BBS01B 36V 250W Mid Drive Motor 8fun Bicycle Electric eBike Conversion Kit mid drive ebike kit new version

www.pswpower.com

BBSHD is engraved on the casing with 1000w. Even the dumbest policeman is going to be able to figure that out.

The cops will never take me alive!




From my cold dead hands.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

City of London police seize five illegal e-bikes and scooters every week

The bikes are essentially turned into motorbikes

www.standard.co.uk

 

[guerney]

City of London police seize five illegal e-bikes and scooters every week

The bikes are essentially turned into motorbikes

www.standard.co.uk

"They have clocked doing nearly double the speed limit for legal speed bikes, which is 15.5mph with a motor designed to cut out when the maximum speed is hit. "

Cops will never clock my souped up but legal "250W" throttleless BBS01B motororised pedelec going any faster than 15.5mph, unless I'm going downhill after assistance has cut off. I've had to combine videos on Vimeo, because there's a limit to the number of videos they host for free... down and up slight hills starts at 45 seconds (km/h on the speedo). Ascending hills would have been faster of course, had my battery been fully charged.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

The only other thing to be aware of with a 52v BBSHD kit is there is potentially a lot of power going through a drive line, far beyond what it is designed for (cassettes, chain and derraullier ) see https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/gears-for-higher-powered-conversion-question.46650/

I've just replaced my rear deralieur on my bafangHD conversion. I' built the bike in 2018 and this is the first time I've changed the gear even with regular use - so its held up well. Cant say the same about chains, or cassettes though.

(Not sure if that was 48v or 52v)

 

[RollingChunder]

A certificate is required for that and your supplier should provide it.

Does your DWG22C kit come with a CoC? I was under the impression DIY bikes don't need this as there's nothing stopping you building your own motor using a stator and a casing and then labelling the bike correctly.

Not really, because you can build your own motor.
This is not prohibited.

The one thing I agree with goral lol.

 

[Woosh]

Does your DWG22C kit come with a CoC? I was under the impression DIY bikes don't need this as there's nothing stopping you building your own motor using a stator and a casing and then labelling the bike correctly.

Any product advertised as EN15194 compliant, I am able to issue a CoC for it.
The DWG22C kit we sell is EN15194 compliant unless the customer changes its speed limiter settings.

 

[chris667]

Police stop every bike converted to electric?

They have been carrying out random stops on electric bikes. In other places than London as well.

https://www.cityoflondon.police.uk/news/city-of-london/news/2024/january/city-of-london-police-seize-five-illegal-e-bikes-and-e-scooters-a-week/

If you fit a BBSHD to your bike and the police stop you, your bike will be taken away and you will receive a fine. They will not accept that your bike is restricted to only do legal speeds. Literally everyone whose bike is seized will tell the police their bike is legal. They have heard everything you say before.

I really think if you want a bike with that performance, you should get a small motorbike instead. It is legal to own those, and the price can be lower. Also a motorbike is designed for the power of its motor. Don't waste your money on something that will get you into trouble.

 

[lenny]

10 instances of failing to wear a helmet

Police figures reveal extent of crackdown on ‘illegal’ e-bikes in Glasgow

Police in Glasgow have released a summary of the enforcement action it has undertaken as part of an operation targeting delivery riders in the city…

www.heraldscotland.com

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/weapon-revealed-war-swindon-criminals-150000405.html

'Illegal and unsafe' - E-bike seized after police stop man riding down M25

Police stopped a man riding an illegal e-bike down the M25 at Potters Bar before seizing the bicycle.

www.thisislocallondon.co.uk

LO26-II Folding Electric Off Road Bike

The SAMEBIKE LO26-II is a foldable electric mountain bike for adults. Unleash the power of a 500W motor for thrilling rides. Enjoy over 50 km range on a single charge with the removable 48V battery.

samebike.com

LO26-II Folding Electric Mountain Bike

SAMEBIKE LO26 is the go-anywhere, do-anything electric mountain bike. Powered by a strong 750W motor and equipped with 2.35" fat tires, this best full suspension e-MTB lets you conquer trails and hills with ease.

samebike.com

 

[guerney]

I sent a messageto my seller IEBIKE on Amazon asking for a Certificate of Conformity for my BBS01B, and he sent me two PDFs. Here's one, the other might be private. I'll whip them out at cops, if my strange looking bike ever gets stopped. Might be useful to other BBS01B owners:

 

[flecc]

Thanks for this link.
There is a sentence there that is very important in my opinion:
"250 watts maximum assist".
That is to say, a motor that will give you 250 watts of power when assisting. There is still no mention of the maximum potential power of the motor.
If the controller is set to 250W then the motor, will give you 250W assist and not 1000W - i.e. 100% legal.

This is how I understand it!

Your understanding is wrong. All that matters is what the motor was sold to you as. If that was illegal, you cannot change it in law by yourself, regardless of what you alter it to.

The only way you can change it in law theoretically is by taking it to a government approved testing station, paying a fee and having it tested and recategorised. However it is unlikely they will do that since they too will stay with the original manufactured rating, regardless of the software alteration.
.

 

[goral]

I sent a messageto my seller IEBIKE on Amazon asking for a Certificate of Conformity for my BBS01B, and he sent me two PDFs. Here's one, the other might be private. I'll whip them out at cops, if my strange looking bike ever gets stopped. Might be useful to other BBS01B owners:

And the police, on seeing such a card say:
"ok, we have no more questions and that's it"?
Nobody from the police verifies this, checks it, contacts the German certification office to confirm this document?
Hmmm interesting...
Thanks for sharing this!
This is very helpful.

Your understanding is wrong. All that matters is what the motor was sold to you as. If that was illegal, you cannot change it in law by yourself, regardless of what you alter it to.

The only way you can change it in law theoretically is by taking it to a government approved testing station, paying a fee and having it tested and recategorised. However it is unlikely they will do that since they too will stay with the original manufactured rating, regardless of the software alteration.
.

Do you know how the engine power test is carried out?
Do you think that the garage doing the certification is basing it on the inscriptions on the engine and interfering with its software?
Do you think that the garage has the manufacturer's permission for such interference? You can always check this and ask about the relevant company's authorisations to interfere with its software.
That is how the law works! You must have the appropriate permits and certificates for everything.
If a garage does something on the basis of, because on YouTube there was how to go in and change the firmware - then all the decisions made by that garage have the same value as you write on a piece of paper.
If you give an engine for certification, with unknown parameters (the inscriptions are only a hint that may help). An examination of it is carried out.
And we are back to point 1.
How do you test to find the power of an engine? Do you know? Because I know

ps.
And a small point - we haven't even mentioned one problem yet: the battery!
Therefore, the legislator has limited itself to the laconic - it must not exceed 250W when pedalling.